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2018-02-26 Home Front: Culture Wars

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Posted by swksvolFF 2018-02-26 00:00|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [11142 views ] Top

#1 Maybe actual restrictions on the firearm choice itself; no 1911s or Dirty Harry cannons.

Oh, great, give them a pea shooter that won't stop someone hyped on adrenaline, let alone any additional chemical additives. Stop means stop.

Posted by Procopius2k 2018-02-25 08:25|| 2018-02-25 08:25|| Front Page Top

#2 My thanks to you and your Wednesday buddies, swksvolFF, for pondering my little question so usefully, and to you especially for taking the time to write up the conclusions.

I venture no opinion on weapons choices, not knowing anything about it.

Posted by trailing wife 2018-02-25 08:51|| 2018-02-25 08:51|| Front Page Top

#3 I venture no opinion on weapons choices, not knowing anything about it.

The best defensive strategy for this soft target is to not have any target clusters of children. Home schooling with 'tele-teaching' augmentation as necessary or appropriate.

As I recall TW, you already chose this weapon.

Posted by Skidmark 2018-02-25 10:07|| 2018-02-25 10:07|| Front Page Top

#4 How did Cruz get into the building with an AR-15? I haven't seen any dicussion of this in the media? Seems like access to the building was lax. Was there perimter control of the grounds/building? Moreover, available info was not acted upon prior to the shooting. At least four sheriff's deputies were outside the building and didn't go into the school. Did the school have monitored video surveillance of the entranceways as well as the halls? Could a shooter be isolated, e.g. locked into a hallway to limit casualties? Arming trained teachers is fine but there were prevention measures that could have been implemented as well.

Posted by JohnQC 2018-02-25 11:57|| 2018-02-25 11:57|| Front Page Top

#5 Arming trained teachers is fine but there were prevention measures that could have been implemented as well.

Prevention measure #1 - Don't elect Democrats to be Sheriff.

Posted by AlanC 2018-02-25 12:35|| 2018-02-25 12:35|| Front Page Top

#6 Oh, great, give them a pea shooter that won't stop someone hyped on adrenaline, let alone any additional chemical additives. Stop means stop.

Had customers so big or so spun out I don't think anything less than a M2 would have solved foolishness right there, and nothing says dammit like letting customer check out a k-bar for sale and get that look on his face. I'm with you there.

The subparagraph there was the Sheriff's department will want a say in what its deputies carry. And here, especially with the holster (and this was brought up again at last night's campfire) where every school has at least that one kid who will and least want to prank someone carrying. At worse want to steal.

There was talk about not even carrying, but firearm in a lockbox. I think that is an absolutely horrible idea and defeats the whole purpose.

How did Cruz get into the building with an AR-15? I haven't seen any dicussion of this in the media?

Heh, I heard from the media he had it tucked into his waistband to conceal carry. There is security footage so somebody knows. Short answer is yes, then we get into bulk heads closing and all that. Did see a deal where a subject can be tracked real time, feed sent to LEO dispatch and forwarded on to responders with location.

Looks like every flag thrown was either picked up or ignored; total wiener flogging from macro to micro. There seems to have been every opportunity in the world, including after the shooting started, to cut this off. When people talk conspiracy to let this happen a la Roosevelt let Pearl Harbor happen, I have a hard to playing advocate because the pooch was so screwed it had two litters and begs for more. But that is ok, because the crime stats are down and graduation numbers are up in our sanctuary school. That means $$$$$$ for bonuses, raises, school board re-election, tenure and job security. Heck, probably need to hire two more secretaries to handle all this plan coming together. Crime stats down too, good for the local law enforcement come budget time. Yippie yippie yea! So to me, this isn't a firearm problem, looks like this shitmuncher was going to figure a way to hurt people no matter what.

To be clear, I think arming all teachers is a horrible idea. The thought is that those who choose the responsibility should have some legal protection with the caveat that actions are reviewable. Truth is some things some people should not be forced to do and expect anything other than a poor outcome. Firearms are definitely on that list, never mind the appropriate use of them. Rosie Odonnel on a ladder is another, then putting a chainsaw on her to cut down a limb.

Posted by swksvolFF 2018-02-25 13:10|| 2018-02-25 13:10|| Front Page Top

#7 Chilling video shows how easy it is to hide an AR-15 and ammunition on your person

Posted by Skidmark 2018-02-25 14:20|| 2018-02-25 14:20|| Front Page Top

#8 Some banks have a bullet-proof airlock type entrance that can be locked so a robber can be isolated and held as they try to escape. Combine with a metal detector and seal up anyone on their way into the school that sets off the system.

Not the total answer but it certainly wouldn't hurt.

Posted by rjschwarz 2018-02-25 14:38|| 2018-02-25 14:38|| Front Page Top

#9 Initial word is he had a generic black soft bag to carry it in the Uber/Lyft he caught to get to the school, carry inside, and ditched

Posted by Frank G 2018-02-25 14:53|| 2018-02-25 14:53|| Front Page Top

#10 That video has been out for a long time. Doing a penguin shuffle about your living room is not moving. Much more impressive if he came down the stairs, or got out of his car went up the stairs and came in through that door.

Someone walks down the road with a rifle nonchalant, especially with the magazine out, I'll likely keep track of that person in a checking the runner at 1st base kind of way. Dude waddles up, lifts his shirt, and starts pulling a rifle it is game on. Right there. By the time he dinks around bringing his rifle out, monkey paws his way through an overstuff pocket to bring out one magazine and come to battery, dead 5, 10 times. This dude is under no pressure, in his own home, in his Sunday besties; that is not getting throat punched knee kicked pepper sprayed or dick punched. Don't even have to be armed, just rush him and he'll fall as he maneuvers backwards with a rifle down his pants. The only thing going for derp is everyone has the hashtag fever and don't pull their noses out of their PED.

Case in point - the media is just now finding this video and someone saw somewhere that 'it is legal to conceal carry a rifle in Florida.'

*something I thought of concerning Sheriff having a say in firearm choice - have a color scheme. Cerakote in a Hello Kitty or Barney such color scheme to help identify good guys from bad guys.

Posted by swksvolFF 2018-02-25 15:10|| 2018-02-25 15:10|| Front Page Top

#11 I suppose as every Sheriff could get M4, Hummer, APC and tracked vehicle 'military surplus' for their dept then a no cost stash of MilStd handguns and ammo for school district issue would also be possible.

Posted by Skidmark 2018-02-25 15:30|| 2018-02-25 15:30|| Front Page Top

#12 Absolutely. And didn't the Army just select a new sidearm? What happens to the old ones?

Posted by swksvolFF 2018-02-25 16:18|| 2018-02-25 16:18|| Front Page Top

#13 To me the real issue is how accurate would a non-combatant be with a firearm in a high stress situation.

That is why I love the good old 1911A1. You do not have to be a good shot to take the fight out of the enemy. Even if they have body armor, the impact of the .45 ACP is such that ribs are broken and the force of the impact is enough to knock someone off their feet.

You can shoot someone in the big toe, the thumb, nick an ear, or hit their weapon and they are down long enough for a more carefully aimed shot.

Just point it and keep shooting until the magazine is empty...by that time the kids are out of the room and the shooter is discouraged.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2018-02-25 16:44|| 2018-02-25 16:44|| Front Page Top

#14 Yep.

Or a Winchester Defender 12 Ga with 18" barrel, pistol grip and *mumbles* capacity of .00 shot.
If I knew someone that had one.

Posted by Frank G 2018-02-25 17:15|| 2018-02-25 17:15|| Front Page Top

#15 I heard that a policeman's buffet[shot, slug, shot,...] is a popular pattern in those, Frank.

Posted by Skidmark 2018-02-25 17:56|| 2018-02-25 17:56|| Front Page Top

#16 Used to call it 'ball and buck.' Or 'buck and ball.' Memory escapes me.

Posted by Besoeker 2018-02-25 18:25|| 2018-02-25 18:25|| Front Page Top

#17 To me the real issue is how accurate would a non-combatant be with a firearm in a high stress situation.

A legit question.

Posted by swksvolFF 2018-02-25 19:01|| 2018-02-25 19:01|| Front Page Top

#18 Good to know. If I had one

Posted by Frank G 2018-02-25 19:14|| 2018-02-25 19:14|| Front Page Top

#19 Had some no experts put bad guys away just yesterday and one was 14. For every hit were some are killed, I see more saved daily with firearms.

11 minute average response time, failure to follow up on leads, in-ability to define standards of threat, in-ability to respond in action or even identify threat, In-ability to seek further intel of threat, failure to share threat-intel, failure to address and engage threat, failure for back-up to engage threat, failure for anyone inside of threat in-extremis to identify threat, cover or conceal, or engage threat.

Posted by newc 2018-02-25 23:16|| 2018-02-25 23:16|| Front Page Top

#20 BTW, Un-confirmed:
His own Family (Adoptive) took all his firearms and he called the Police.

That is the end of this total failure gun control narrative.

Posted by newc 2018-02-25 23:20|| 2018-02-25 23:20|| Front Page Top

#21 May we roll this forward to Tomorrow? I already deleted most the thing once and I want to show these conversations to some people?

Prayers and appeals to the Rantburg U Faculty.

Posted by newc 2018-02-25 23:23|| 2018-02-25 23:23|| Front Page Top

#22 Rolled over, newc. Have fun sharing the cumulative wisdom.

Posted by trailing wife 2018-02-26 00:26|| 2018-02-26 00:26|| Front Page Top

#23 Texas Allows Teachers to Carry.

Texas school districts can choose between two plans — the Guardian Plan and the School Marshal Plan — to authorize employees to carry a firearm on school property. Debate around arming teachers and staff has surged in response to the recent school shootings.

Dax Gonzalez with the association said the it is aware of only one district in Texas that established a policy to implement the School Marshal Plan.

Agua Dulce ISD opted for the Guardian Plan because it's a bit more flexible, Superintendent Wayne Kelly has said. Trustees approved the implementation of the Agua Dulce School Guardian Program on Oct. 24, 2016.

Teachers and staff had to undergo a mental health evaluation and 80 hours of training by the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement to carry a weapon at district campuses, Kelly said, adding each petition to carry also has to be approved by the school board.

The Aransas Pass ISD board also is weighing the option of adopting a modified version of the Guardian Plan after Aransas Pass Chief of Police Eric Blanchard proposed it to trustees.

Blanchard said district employees who would be Guardians should be nominated by staff, undergo a mental health evaluation, be licensed to carry a firearm and show proficiency in using a firearm by going through the police department's campus carry program.

Posted by Ulaigum Ebbineng7056 2018-02-26 00:39|| 2018-02-26 00:39|| Front Page Top

#24 Thank You TW!
This helps so much. Just in case, I Warn of possible incoming from the faceburg or whatever, but I think this content should be timeless.
And secured by many.

Posted by newc 2018-02-26 03:16|| 2018-02-26 03:16|| Front Page Top

#25 What about the enemy within, like the nimrod teacher in Cali who went on his anti-military tirade? Some of those types will seek to make guns in the hands of faculty a lawfare focus and you can bet lots of the union goons will be all in with that.

Posted by M. Murcek 2018-02-26 08:01|| 2018-02-26 08:01|| Front Page Top

#26 Nikolas Cruz's behavior raised red flags over and over, but no one intervened

Posted by Skidmark 2018-02-26 08:51|| 2018-02-26 08:51|| Front Page Top

#27 Inside school where teachers carry guns

Posted by Skidmark 2018-02-26 08:57|| 2018-02-26 08:57|| Front Page Top

#28 I should think armored doors with serious locks could contain the problem to a single classroom (if everyone is too late) or to the hallways (if the warning went out quick enough).

Posted by rjschwarz 2018-02-26 09:27|| 2018-02-26 09:27|| Front Page Top

#29 The teachers in schools where teachers are armed will probably have the undivided attention of the students since they will not know who is armed and who is not.

Posted by JohnQC 2018-02-26 10:31|| 2018-02-26 10:31|| Front Page Top

#30 My worry is that the shooters tend to come from the schools they shoot at, and they are also likely to know which teachers/buildings might be armed and which ones aren't.

Granted this is an extra level of complexity that might derail the plans before they even begin and thus worth a try, I'm just being devil's advocate.

Posted by rjschwarz 2018-02-26 12:51|| 2018-02-26 12:51|| Front Page Top

#31 This is a very good discussion, thanks for the insights everyone. A couple of points.
1. Training should not be a one time event, it should be ongoing. Practice is required.
2. Time invested in training should not come out of teacher and staff vacation or free time.
3. This will still be a burden for some of the teachers and staff, so a monthly bonus is indicated.
4. This should be a federally supported (but not run) effort.
5. Lastly, the best close combat training I ever had involved being run through shoot houses. Training like this involves shoot / no-shoot decisions, shot accuracy and quick responses. It is very stressful (as they are timed and scored) and will be of immense value.
My two cents.

Posted by Whiskey Mike 2018-02-26 13:13|| 2018-02-26 13:13|| Front Page Top

#32 the best close combat training I ever had involved being run through shoot houses

The International Defensive Pistol Association-clubs, ranges and shooting events in [almost] every state.
Texas has extra.

Posted by Skidmark 2018-02-26 15:47|| 2018-02-26 15:47|| Front Page Top

#33 Mobile Training Teams
(MTT) from LE? Broward CO. Sheriff's dept, need not apply.

Posted by Besoeker 2018-02-26 15:56|| 2018-02-26 15:56|| Front Page Top

#34 A buddy of mine runs a armed teacher training program;
--Handguns are in a locked safe w/in the classroom.
--Access is restricted based on biometrics.
--When the safe is accessed, a 911 call is automatically placed.
--Teacher stays in classroom, herds the kids into a safer area, and only engage if AS enters classroom.
--This guy says he has more work than could ever handle. Some schools have been doing this for years. They just don't broadcast it.

Posted by Bangkok Billy 2018-02-26 16:51|| 2018-02-26 16:51|| Front Page Top

#35 A buddy of mine runs a armed teacher training program;

Is this in Thailand? I understand Muslim separatists have been attacking Buddhist civilians, including teachers and monks, for a while now.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2018-02-26 17:27|| 2018-02-26 17:27|| Front Page Top

#36 "I should think armored doors with serious locks could contain the problem to a single classroom (if everyone is too late) or to the hallways (if the warning went out quick enough)."

Innovative Teen Invents Device to Stop Mass Shooters in Their Tracks—Without the Police State & Without Rights Infringement - Blood Red Patriots

Posted by newc 2018-02-26 18:55|| 2018-02-26 18:55|| Front Page Top

#37 If this is Rantburg original content, must it be ferried away at midnight?

Posted by newc 2018-02-26 19:13|| 2018-02-26 19:13|| Front Page Top

#38 Rule 1 No cowards in the Police force
If u are not ready to tackle armed killers ASAP then do not take the govts money
Go sell ribbons
2 We had at Parkland three , unarmed teachers who faced the armed maniac to protect their students. The assumptions here are that the teachers will not be reliable and intelligent in their use of weapons
How would they be less reliable than the uniformed police at Parkland or Columbine, or in Nashville or Ft Knox>
George Washington had only brave hearts to fight the Brit Army with-- Americans are no less courageous today see Viet Nam, Iraq etc
Guts count as much as guns, Dads and Moms and Brothers
and neighbors are far more reliable than a bunch of chickens in uniform

Posted by Skunky Thrusoling9109 2018-02-26 19:21|| 2018-02-26 19:21|| Front Page Top

#39 Another thread on this from SOF

Posted by newc 2018-02-26 19:54|| 2018-02-26 19:54|| Front Page Top

23:39 Alpha2c
20:47 Zhang Fei
20:46 Zhang Fei
19:54 newc
19:30 swksvolFF
19:27 M. Murcek
19:21 Skunky Thrusoling9109
19:13 newc
18:57 Omeger Gray6606
18:55 newc
18:29 M. Murcek
18:26 Rob Crawford
17:29 Procopius2k
17:27 Procopius2k
17:27 Zhang Fei
17:24 Procopius2k
16:51 Bangkok Billy
16:45 newc
16:45 rjschwarz
16:42 newc
16:37 Zhang Fei
16:15 Unick Darling of the Veal Cutlets8500
16:12 Unick Darling of the Veal Cutlets8500
16:11 M. Murcek
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