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2007-01-25 Iraq
Ugly details about the helicopter crash that killed five Americans
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Posted by trailing wife 2007-01-25 00:00|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [11137 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Apparently Blackwater pays well. It better. Their record is abysmal. They were supposed to be guarding a convoy of VIP's ? They don't seem to have any sort of situational awareness. Then, when they get in trouble, they can't hold their own in a firefight. I suppose US Army doesn't allow them to have any really good toys, but they will be swarmed every time with only pistols and light barreled auto rifles.
Posted by SpecOp35 2007-01-24 15:39||   2007-01-24 15:39|| Front Page Top

#2 So when do we give up on the hearts-and-minds and go for the balls instead? Sure, reprisals make you unpopular if done half-heartedly. But with sufficient thoroughness the folks who are left will be grateful.
Posted by Excalibur 2007-01-24 15:50||   2007-01-24 15:50|| Front Page Top

#3 Americans down always sad, but thanks TW the details even sketchy ones are good to know.
Posted by RD 2007-01-24 15:56||   2007-01-24 15:56|| Front Page Top

#4 They were supposed to be guarding a convoy of VIP's ?

Doesn't sound like that to me:

"went down after responding to assist a U.S. Embassy ground convoy"

Sounds like a call for "anyone in the area" went out, and they ran to the sound of the guns.
Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford  2007-01-24 16:26|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/]  2007-01-24 16:26|| Front Page Top

#5 I have several friends who are Blackwater and are retired Force Recon Marines who have great situational awareness and know exactly what the are doing and are quite fucking professional. Before mocking the dead, SpedcOp, give it some fucking thought.
Posted by Sgt. D.T. 2007-01-24 16:57||   2007-01-24 16:57|| Front Page Top

#6 Once upon a time we would have cleared that neighborhood by B-52.
Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore  2007-01-24 17:20||   2007-01-24 17:20|| Front Page Top

#7 Once upon a time we actually tried to win wars too.
Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader  2007-01-24 17:36||   2007-01-24 17:36|| Front Page Top

#8 They are well equiped. Hire only the best, Night Stalkers, SF, Force Recon etc... Yhey're hire to fight when most won't. rest in peace.
Posted by 49 Pan 2007-01-24 18:42||   2007-01-24 18:42|| Front Page Top

#9 Definitely. Clear that neighborhood next.

Visions of a dozen AC-130's flying in a big racetrack circle above said neighborhood, raining thunder down on it until it is just a black smudge on the landscape. Followed by B-52's dropping pure salt ground penetrators.

I wonder, just how many Spectres do we have in the force?
Posted by Lone Ranger 2007-01-24 20:06||   2007-01-24 20:06|| Front Page Top

#10 Actually, now knowing we have B-1 Lancers in theater, it may be time to put 'em to use, Lone Ranger. While AC-130s make for good show, bombing the snot out of this neighborhood with the B-1 sounds better to me.
Posted by BA 2007-01-24 20:34||   2007-01-24 20:34|| Front Page Top

#11 AP got the story wrong. The first bird took fire and the shooter on board was hit, mission was scrubbed and flew back to the Aid Station. Second bird stayed on station to support the retrograde of the convoy. While at the Aid Station shooter in the first bird died. They replaced 3 rotor blades and took back off to join up with the second bird. By this time all hell was braking loose and the military came in with supporting fire. The second bird that remained on station went down with all aboard KIA on impact. NO ONE WAS SHOT IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD. Their bodies were all recovered. These MEN were the finest, and served our Country well in a time of need.
Posted by Joe of the Jungle 2007-01-24 21:26||   2007-01-24 21:26|| Front Page Top

#12 Thanks Joe. Like they say... first reports are notoriously wrong.
Posted by TomAnon 2007-01-24 21:38||   2007-01-24 21:38|| Front Page Top

#13 thx Joe - they died honorably, and for a purpose. Still, good reason to clear the neighborhood. Kill the attackers....
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-01-24 21:49||   2007-01-24 21:49|| Front Page Top

#14 Before mocking the dead, SpedcOp, give it some fucking thought.

It's not the first time he's played armchair-general. It won't be the last.
Posted by Pappy 2007-01-24 22:02||   2007-01-24 22:02|| Front Page Top

#15 The gunship’s that came in to support launched at least one Hellfire down their throats.
Posted by Joe of the Jungle 2007-01-24 22:03||   2007-01-24 22:03|| Front Page Top

#16 Thank you, Joe. I like your description of events much better. I learnt everything I know about Blackwater here at Rantburg, so I have a lot of respect for them. But I don't know enough about how soldiering happens to know why the story made me uncomfortable as well as angry.
Posted by trailing wife 2007-01-24 22:13||   2007-01-24 22:13|| Front Page Top

#17 Aw, screw 'em. They're nothing but mercenaries.
Posted by Kos">Kos  2007-01-24 22:43|| http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]">[http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]  2007-01-24 22:43|| Front Page Top

#18 Go fuck yourself, Kos.
Posted by trailing wife 2007-01-24 22:58||   2007-01-24 22:58|| Front Page Top

#19 TW; as always a very thoughtful commentary except for one small bone I wish to pick: While at 52, Mr. Laguna was not a kid to you or me maybe, to his Mother, or any other Blackwater-Family Mom, he was still a kid; their kid. Rest in Peace, Gentlemen.
Posted by USN, ret. 2007-01-24 22:58||   2007-01-24 22:58|| Front Page Top

#20 Nit accepted, USN, ret. I can be a little too literal, sometimes.

Oh, and if Kos meant to make a joke, I apologize for lacking a sense of humour just now. If not, the order stands.
Posted by trailing wife 2007-01-24 23:05||   2007-01-24 23:05|| Front Page Top

#21 For what its worth, a friend in EODT relays the same tale as Joe. Supposedly the wire got them as they tried to evade, and the brave jihadis sprayed the wreckage as they ran away so they could claim the down bird.

Good men, solid operators. They'll be missed.
Posted by OldSpook 2007-01-24 23:22||   2007-01-24 23:22|| Front Page Top

#22 Anyone know if they were on PSD when they got yanked into the firesack?
Posted by OldSpook 2007-01-24 23:23||   2007-01-24 23:23|| Front Page Top

#23 OldSpook,
They were the PSD for the convoy
Posted by Joe of the Jungle 2007-01-24 23:59||   2007-01-24 23:59|| Front Page Top

#24 For those who didn't know, the last time some Blackwater employees were killed, that's what the Daily Kos said.
Posted by Jackal">Jackal  2007-01-25 01:35|| http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]">[http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]  2007-01-25 01:35|| Front Page Top

#25 And yet another thread demonstrating how this site gets it right. If only the UofRantburg had been around in the late '80's, I wouldn't have had to suffer through 2 years at SF State. And yes, today just as in those days, to be Student Body President at SF State, you must be Palestinian. No exceptions that I'm aware of.
Posted by Rex Mundi 2007-01-25 02:18||   2007-01-25 02:18|| Front Page Top

#26 Last I heard, Blackwater pays security staff $300 and up per day, and work them every day. And there are "hot zone" bonuses for protecting the Baghdad Airport to Green Zone and other routes. That kind of money would attract qualified ex-military.
Posted by Sneaze Shaiting3550 2007-01-25 05:07||   2007-01-25 05:07|| Front Page Top

#27 Strange. Blackwater ran a website from July 2002 to Nov. 2005, then stopped. Fortunately, it is archived on the Wayback website:

http://web.archive.org/web/20051107204347re_/www.blackwaterusa.com/
Posted by Sneaze Shaiting3550 2007-01-25 05:22||   2007-01-25 05:22|| Front Page Top

#28 I caught it, Jackal
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-01-25 07:15||   2007-01-25 07:15|| Front Page Top

#29 Before I went out last time these guys came down and gave us a brief on IED detection and countermeasures. They were pretty good, all former spec ops/Marines/etc. They're just a hop/skip up the road from Lejeune. As w/any high speed unit you have your percentage of cowboys but overall I admired their professionalism, they certainly know the deal. Rest in Peace gents.
Posted by Broadhead6 2007-01-25 11:37||   2007-01-25 11:37|| Front Page Top

#30 #19 FWIW, I think the same way as Mr. Laguna's mom. The 'kid' across my street will be 60 this year.
Posted by GK 2007-01-25 16:49||   2007-01-25 16:49|| Front Page Top

#31 RUMINT has them pulling PSD for the PM and other higher end pols in IQ now, instead of his Shia clan, ao there may be more to this than meets the eye. Myabe not. But I've said enough. Those of you with the other puzzle pieces can see it from here.

Ironic that this is how the world learns of those companies, as opposed to those of us who knew before. BW, solid pros - them and EODT are the only guys I'd ever consider plugging in with, if I werent so damn decrepit. Both of them only hire quality, no "Soldier of Fortune Magazine" nor Rambo-Hollywood sh*t (unlike a company I don't care to name, but Joe probably knows who Im talking about). These comapnies and thier operators know their stuff front back and sideways. Worth every damn dime they get paid, and then some. Kinda surprised to hear the news, sad for the losses.

Rest in Peace - I'll see ya on Fiddler's Green some day, and we can tilt a bottle there.
Posted by OldSpook 2007-01-25 19:28||   2007-01-25 19:28|| Front Page Top

#32 Frank is smarter than I am, Jackel. He looks better in a Hawaiian shirt, too. Thank you for explaining.
Posted by trailing wife 2007-01-25 20:22||   2007-01-25 20:22|| Front Page Top

#33 unlike a company I don't care to name

Begins with an 'M'?
Posted by Pappy 2007-01-25 21:00||   2007-01-25 21:00|| Front Page Top

23:40 SteveS
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