Article

2007-12-10 Great White North

In Defense of Free Speech--And Mark Steyn

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Fred 2007-12-10 00:00|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [11125 views ] Top
File under: Global Jihad

#1 i liked the idea on instapundit. Buy Steyn's book. Great Christmas present for yourself or someone else on your list.

Posted by Whomong Guelph4611 2007-12-10 03:03|| 2007-12-10 03:03|| Front Page Top

#2 For it is the most fundamental right -- the queen bee in the hive, as it were. Every other freedom depends on this freedom. Take it away, and we no longer have a free country.

Wrongo. The right for citizens to keep and bear arms, in order to DEFEND free speech, and all the other rights, is fundamental.

Like so much in civil society, we put up with it because the alternative is worse, and we'd rather cope with free speech, than with the free intimidation that results from its suppression.

Actually, what is being taught by the behavior of such commissions is that the violent wheel gets the grease. Free speech allows for a debate about issues of "right", "wrong", "factual", "true", "false", "fairness", "dessert", that people find fundamental in their thinking. Vis a vis religion, I am positively sure that we would be having religious wars in the United States if it were not for the "compact" that said, "we'll let people change churches without violence. We'll allow debate and talk about which religion is the best, or which one best interprets the scriptures important to them, or which comes up with new scriptures to guide behavior. Let the best ideas win, rather than the ones with the best guns or the best aim." All the Judaeo-Christian religions signed on, and it's been fairly smooth sailing. Not great sailing, because the violence against Mormons was unforgivable, and the pentecostal churches were insitutionally discriminated against in the 1940's, but the genius of the system eventually corrected those abuses.

Rantburgers lament and bitch about the Iron Wall against facts that the MSM has erected against the war on terror. Let me clue y'all in: that wall was first built to suppress the pro-life movement, so every twitch of the MSM with regard to the WoT was "deja vu all over again". There was some blow-back from the ranks. Violent blow-back, but the leadership denounced it and took steps to flush it from the approved membership, even if the MSM made sure you didn't hear about THAT.

Thank god for the Internet, which allows, for the moment, all voices to be heard. Yeah, Daily Kos and Democratic Underground are unsavory, but we have Rantburg and the others in compensation, and that's enough for the moment. Heck, all the attempts at Internet control are reflections of the fact that they know that that IS enough.

The Second Amendment is not the First Amendment for a reason: Our founding fathers wanted us to talk things out, pray things out, and debate things out FIRST. Its when the first amendment is taken away that we reach for the guns to MAKE them put it back.

Posted by Ptah">Ptah 2007-12-10 06:01|| http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]">[http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2007-12-10 06:01|| Front Page Top

#3 Interesting comment here:

As a African-American convert to Islam, a soldier, and as someone who actually can read, I would have to say that anyone who thinks what Steyn has said is either racist or objectionable is a complete douchebag. The Canadian Muslim groups that have complained are essentially terrorist front organizations and Steyn should wear there offense as a badge of honor.

I am sick and tired of white liberals apologizing for the subhuman filth that has degraded my beautiful religion. The Islam that I practice stresses self-discipline and tolerance for ones neighbors. I have fought the Wahhabi scum in both Afghanistan and Iraq and will be going back to Iraq soon to finish the job. I personally find it pathetic to find that I am fighting in Iraq to give Iraqis a right to free speech, while Canada seeks to chill legitimate political discourse.

Posted by Mike 2007-12-10 08:10|| 2007-12-10 08:10|| Front Page Top

#4 A misunderstanding about this is at the root of much conflict between East and West.

Here David Warren makes a typical Canadian mistake, even typical of Canadian conservatives. The East does not misunderstand the West's freedom of speech. The East reviles the West's freedom of speech as a form of blasphemy. Until we figure out this is about disagreement not misunderstanding we are going to get nowhere. It is the West which misunderstands the East by insisting the real problem is about poverty, nationalism or some enervated miscommunication.

David Warren: They want to kill us.

Posted by Excalibur 2007-12-10 09:02|| 2007-12-10 09:02|| Front Page Top

#5 That Henley guy who attacked Steyn as a racist got the worst beatdown I've ever seen in the blogosphere--and it happened on his own blog. From now on, if you look up the term "bitchslap" in Wiki, you're going to see a picture of Jim Henley.

He had more than 600 entries on the thread where he attacked Steyn, and the overwhelming (90+%) of them just wanted to tear him a new one. I suspect it will be a while before he writes something so foolish again.

Posted by Jomosing Bluetooth8431 2007-12-10 09:06|| 2007-12-10 09:06|| Front Page Top

#6 I agree. Did you read the comments on Henley's blog? ROFLOL!

I don't even know who Henley is, but the term fool or b**chslap will come to mind forever more when his name is mentioned. Heck - might as well put that in the dictionary now and get it over with.

Posted by Whomong Guelph4611 2007-12-10 09:57|| 2007-12-10 09:57|| Front Page Top

#7 Mike:

Over the weekend I read the "comment" you posted above. here are my thoughts on same:

It's not authentic, not by a long shot. I KNOW black (Afro - Americans?) who have converted to islam. The comment you posted is NOT in any way shape or form typical of the black converts to islam with whom I know and have spoken with. Black converts to islam do not harbor "sweetness and light" for their fellow man. Black converts to islam do not - in any way - wish the Jew and Christian peace on earth and goodwill toward man. If the poster you quoted believes otherwise he is a fool and not authentic. Authentic black converts to islam make OBL look pollyannish. We're engaged in a war of ideologoies and a war of ideas...yes...even a war of religions if you want to go there. There is no f*ckin' way the poster you quoted could believe what he posted and still be deemed an authentic muslim convert. the poster you quoted was not a muslim. the poster you quoted was someone "pretending to be muslim".

Posted by Mark Z 2007-12-10 11:45|| 2007-12-10 11:45|| Front Page Top

#8 You may well be right.

OTOH I know several black African muslims who emigrated to the US and who pretty much do track with that comment on Henley's site.

Not saying they're a majority, just noting their existence. And I do know them well enough to be fairly confident that that's not taqqiya on their part.

Posted by lotp 2007-12-10 12:00|| 2007-12-10 12:00|| Front Page Top

#9 PS: agreed 100% that we're engaged in a war of ideologies and ideas. And we're not doing a good job of prosecuting that war, either.

Posted by lotp 2007-12-10 12:02|| 2007-12-10 12:02|| Front Page Top

#10 Mark Z:

Neither you nor I know if that commenter is who and what he represents himself to be or not.

That said, I see no objective reason to disbelieve him. I find it quite believable that a combat veteran in the U.S. armed forces who has been engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan, having seen what the enemy is like up close and personal, would be eager to polish off the Wahabbis.

I have had experience with black Moslems similar to lotp's. We're talking about a sample set that is probably a few hundred thousand people or more, and I'm sure that in any group of people that large you could find the commenter, Osama sympathizers, and everything in between. It's foolish to assume that in any large sample of people grouped by ethnicity and religion, every single one of them will have identical personalities. (Ever hung out with Irish Catholics? You should meet my extended family sometime!)

If this guy's a for-real, he's an ally, and I'm glad to have him on our side and thank him for his service and welcome others like him to join us. If he's not for real, well, not to put too fine a point on it, he should be, and I want to do everything I can to encourage people like that to come forward.

Posted by Mike 2007-12-10 13:26|| 2007-12-10 13:26|| Front Page Top

#11 David Warren is wrong about the Danish cartoon riots. There were no riots for several months after the the cartoons came out, even though the cartoons appeared in several Arabic newspapers.

Then, on cue, riots broke out everywhere. Both Egyptian Sandmonkey and LGF document how this was pre-arranged by the Muslim Brotherhood and Iran.

Al

Posted by Frozen Al 2007-12-10 17:24|| 2007-12-10 17:24|| Front Page Top

#12 I'm with WG4611 on this one. Buy the book. I did and I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. It was insightful, informative, and entertaining. I laughed out loud while reading it at least half a dozen times, it not more. That is the beauty of Steyn. No matter how unpleasant, how politically incorrect, how unsettling, he'll tell you just how it is-- straight, no chaser-- and he'll make sure you have fun while he's doing it.

Steyn is right. Demographics is destiny. Culture matters, too, but at the end of the day, politics in a democratic government is a numbers game. They (and by "They" I mean the Islamists and by "Islamists" I mean those who want to institute Islam or sharia law as a political institution) understand this very well. That is precisely why they do what they do when they take western rules, laws, and values and try to turn them against us.

Silly liberals like this Henley character can't see the forest through the trees. They are so desperate to bask in a utopian version of things ("Can't we all just get along?") and only manage to get there on a politically correct, relativistic, pile of stinkin' you-know-what that stands for absolutely nothing and against everything western civilisation was built on.

Those of us in the West, or rather those who do not want to be ruled by Islamic law, don't seem to understand this so well. It is at our own peril. And this is the point of his book. It has nothing to do with race and creed. But it has everything to do with ideology and desire. They simply want what they want more than us right now. And they have demonstrated that they will stop at nothing to get it.

Posted by eltoroverde 2007-12-10 17:46|| 2007-12-10 17:46|| Front Page Top

#13 Mike:

You're correct - NEITHER YOU - or I - KNOW IF the self-proclaimed "afro-american convert to islam" is the peaceful, sweet & light muslim he claims to be. Precisely my point. Read the comment you posted in context of ALL the other postings. IF he is the muslim he claimns to be, and believes what he wrote, then he's welcome to MY side in this war. Here's the problem you and the black muslim convert have to deal with: IF the black convert (big if) you quoted from Hensley's website from this past weekend strictly adheres to the SCRIPTURE of islam (the koran), then he can NEVER be on "my side" AND remain an AUTHENTIC muslim. Think I make this sh*t up as I go along? Then YOU have not read the Koran and IF you have you don't understand what you read. In which case there is no poiont in further argument.

I can't asnwer your post/point where lotp has had experience with black muslims. She SAYS her experience has been with black muslims that emigrated to the USA. Maybe. Don't know. Don't care! Would not trust a black muslim who emigrated to the USA as far as I can spit. Does that make me a racist...make me a badaaaaaad person? Spit. Bullsh*t. There is an effort already underway in the USA to implant sharia law in the USA. Think I'm wrong? If so, then you're new to RB, right? What about the f*ckin' muzzie cabbies that won't carry seeing eye dogs and booze in Minneapolis and Atlanta? Oh..they're okay, right, cause they're just BLACK muzzies who have not had a chance to assimilate in our culture. You stupid f*ckin' people p*ss me off...

My point WAS about black American folk converting to islam who consider themslves muslims first and Americans second. Once converted THEY say THEY are muslims FIRST and no longer American. NOT me saying this: It's black muslims. These black muslims will tell you with a straight face Islam is a religion of EMANCIPATION. God as my witness: black muslims think (and will tell you) the slave trade from Africa was at the behest of the white man from Europe. The black muslims (in the USA) are NOT taught that ARAB MUSLIMS were running the slave trade out of Africa for almost 800 years BEFORE the first white colonist from Europe arrived on the continent. STOP the lies of muslims you stupid Europeans. STOP lying you muzzie bastards in africa and the KSA. The white man taught the muslim to be civil....the muslim taught the white man how to make a living keeping slaves....WAKE UP people.

Posted by Mark Z 2007-12-10 19:54|| 2007-12-10 19:54|| Front Page Top

23:05 Anguper Hupomosing9418
22:35 MarkZ
22:28 PBMcL
22:24 Throger Thains8048
22:14 Barbara Skolaut
22:02 Chuck Simmins
21:57 OldSpook
21:56 Barbara Skolaut
21:49 doc
21:35 www
21:33 gorb
21:09 Frank G
21:03 Pappy
21:02 KBK
20:56 KBK
20:53 Alaska Paul
20:51 KBK
20:48 Eric Jablow
20:46 Pappy
20:42 Phinater Thraviger
20:35 ed
20:33 Skunky Angeack7024
20:31 Eric Jablow
20:22 lotp
Merry-Go-Blog