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| Afghanistan |
| Afghanistan, declare victory and leave? |
| 2009-10-05 |
| Since first invading Afghanistan nearly a decade ago, America set one primary goal: Eliminate Al Qaeda's safe haven. Today, intelligence and military officials say they've severely constrained Al Qaeda's ability to operate there and in Pakistan -- and that's reshaping the debate over U.S. strategy in the region. Hunted by U.S. drones, beset by money problems and finding it tougher to lure young Arabs to the bleak mountains of Pakistan, Al Qaeda is seeing its role shrink there and in Afghanistan, according to intelligence reports and Pakistani and U.S. officials. Conversations intercepted by the U.S. show Al Qaeda fighters complaining of shortages of weapons, clothing and, in some cases, food. The number of foreign fighters in Afghanistan appears to be declining, U.S. military officials say. For Arab youths who are Al Qaeda's primary recruits, "it's not romantic to be cold and hungry and hiding," said a senior U.S. official in South Asia. In Washington, the question of Al Qaeda's strength is at the heart of the debate over whether to send thousands more troops to Afghanistan. On Saturday, eight American troops and two Afghan soldiers were killed fighting Taliban forces -- one of the worst single-day battlefield losses for U.S. forces since the war began. Opponents of sending more troops prefer a narrower campaign consisting of missile strikes and covert action inside Pakistan, rather than a broader war against the Taliban, the radical Islamist movement that ruled Afghanistan for years and provided a haven to Al Qaeda's Usama bin Laden. Their reasoning: The larger threat to America remains Al Qaeda, not the Taliban; so, best not to get embroiled in a local war that history suggests may be unwinnable. |
| Posted by:GolfBravoUSMC |
| #9 Lest we fergit, COUNTERTERRORISM BLOG > SPREAD OF JIHADI OPERATIONS INSIDE AMERICA: A QUANTITAIVE WARNING; + TOPIX > ANALYSTS: JIHADISTS MOVING FROM SEPARATISM TO GLOBAL INSURGENCY. IOW, no longer LOCAL = LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY/AUTONOMY or even MUSLIM RIGHTS, BUT MORE THE FORCED IMPOSITION OF ISLAM/ISLAMISM VIA THE DE FACTO OVERTHROW OF GOVTS + CONQUEST OF NATION(S)-REGIONS. |
| Posted by: JosephMendiola 2009-10-05 18:44 |
| #8 "Declare victory and leave" is, broadly speaking, how the LOU DOBBS RADIO SHOW summed up the Bammer's label for the GWOT + AFPAK, i.e. as "overseas/national contingency operations" which both Dobbs + Several Call-ins perceived as DANGEROUS. DOBBS > lamented how too many USG Politicos are afraid to say that (1)we are fighting a war, includ war for national survival. (2)waging said war to avenge/response to 9-11 + and attacks agz US Citizens + City (3)that the US intends to kill or destroy its enemies in wartime??? |
| Posted by: JosephMendiola 2009-10-05 18:37 |
| #7 Declare victory and leave Not an option. Didn't work out well as we saw in 9/11. That is one of the reasons we are there. Payback. If anyone thinks we are not well thought of in the mideast now, we would be thought of as lower than whalesh!t if we pulled out. We would be facing an emboldened enemy all over the world. You would see radical jihadis in numbers we never thought possible here and abroad. |
| Posted by: JohnQC 2009-10-05 17:17 |
| #6 We have Army generals who would put all of Afghanistan to the torch, if given the word to proceed. We just don't have anyone in Washington with the stomach to fight a real war. The problem isn't the troops in the field, but the folks in Washington - in EVERY branch of government. Of course, the first thing we'd have to do to fight a REAL war is first kill all the ^&$&*%#$&%^^%%(*&^%*&$ lawyers - here AND in Europe. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2009-10-05 14:25 |
| #5 Only problem is the name was "Hassassins" not "Assassins", same folks |
| Posted by: Redneck Jim 2009-10-05 12:41 |
| #4 Re #1: Excellent post. |
| Posted by: borgboy 2009-10-05 11:55 |
| #3 we do not have the will or the desire ,yet. |
| Posted by: One Eyed Sheting1191 2009-10-05 11:51 |
| #2 And that's what it will take, and we do not have the will or the desire. We will leave, the jihadi-cockroaches will flourish, and we will confront an emboldened jihadi-cockroach in 10 years. |
| Posted by: anymouse 2009-10-05 11:49 |
| #1 ..so, best not to get embroiled in a local war that history suggests may be unwinnable. "Storm from the East" by Robert Marshall: The Mongols' prime objective was the Caliph of Baghdad, but before confronting him they meant to eliminate the other major power in the region, The Ismailis or Assassins. They had emerged because of a schism in the Shia Muslim sect and established themselves in northern and eastern Persia by taking and controlling a series of mountain fortifications. Behind their walls they lived a contemplative life, producing beautifully wrought paintings and metalworks, buy beyond their retreats they terrorized those civilizations they deemed heretical and so earned the enmity not just of the rest of the Islamic world but eventually of Europe. Rather than confronting his enemies in open combat he preferred to sponsor a campaign of political murder, usually executed with a dagger in the back, as the means to his ends. The Mongols has their own reasons for launching a campaign against the Assassins. First, they had received a plea of help from an Islamic judge in Qaswin, a town near the Assassins' stronghold at Alamut, who had complained that his fellow citizens were forced to wear armour all the time as protection from the Assassins' daggers. According to Rubruck, another reason that determined Mongol attitudes was the discovery of a plot to send no fewer than 400 dagger-wielding Assassins in disguise to Qaraqorum with the instructions to murder the Great Khan. The Assassins had encountered the Mongols once before, during Chormaghun's terror raid through northern Persia 1237-8, which led them to send an envoy to Europe to beg help. ... On 1 January 1256 Hulegu's army crossed the Oxus River and brought into Persia the most formidable war machine ever seen. It possessed the very latest in siege engineering, gunpowder from China, catapults that would send balls of flaming naphtha into their enemy's cities, and divisions of rigorously trained mounted archers led by generals who had learnt their skills at the feet of Genghis Khan and Subedei. As news of Hulegu's army spread he was soon presented with a succession of sultans, emirs, and atabaks from as far apart as Asia Minor and Herat, all come to pay homage. Its sheer presence brought to an end nearly forty years of rebellion and unrest in the old lands of Khwarazmia, but to the inhabitants of Persia and Syria it was the dawn of a new world order. The Mongols made first for the Elburz Mountains where the Assassins lay in wait behind what they believed to be their impregnable fortresses. With extraordinary ingenuity the Mongol generals and their Chinese engineers manoeuvred their artillery up the mountain slopes and set them up around the walls of the fortress of Alamut. But before the order was given to commence firing the Assassins' Grand Master, Rukn ad_Din signaled that he wanted to negotiate. Hulegu countered that he must immediately order the destruction of his own fortifications; when Rukn ad_Din prevaricated; the bombardment commenced. Under the most devastatingly accurate fire, the walls quickly tumbled and Rukn ad_Din surrendered. Hulegu took him prisoner, transported him to every Assassin castle they confronted, and paraded him before each garrison with the demand for an immediate surrender. Some obliged, as at Alamut; while others, like Gerdkuh, had to be taken by force. Today the spherical stone missiles fired by the artillery teams at the walls still litter the perimeter of the ruins. Whether each 'eagle's nest' surrendered or taken, the Mongols put all the inhabitants to the swords - even the women in their homes and the babies in their cradles. As the slaughter continued, Rukn ad_Din begged Hulegu to allow him to go to Qaraqorum where he would pay homage to the great Khan and plead for clemency. Hulegu agreed, but when he got to Qaraqorum Mongke Khan refused to see him. It was effectively a sentence of death. On the journey back his Mongol escorts turned on the Grand Master and his attendants, who were 'kicked to a pulp'. The Persian historian Juvaini commented that 'the world had been cleansed'. Five hundred years later Edward Gibbon echoed those sentiments, claiming that the Mongols' campaign 'may be considered as a service to mankind'. It took two years for the Mongols to dislodge over 200 'eagle's nests', but in the process they virtually expunged the Assassins from Persia. |
| Posted by: Procopius2k 2009-10-05 11:13 |