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2004-09-01 Caucasus
Gunmen holding over 200 children hostage in North Ossetia
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Posted by Dan Darling 2004-09-01 3:11:58 AM|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [11134 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Ah brave terrorists..going after children I see. The bastards.
Posted by Valentine 2004-09-01 3:47:48 AM||   2004-09-01 3:47:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Dateline: Moscow 11/12/2002

"If you are prepared to become a radical Muslim and undergo circumcision, I invite you to Moscow."

"Our nation is multi-confessional, we have specialists in this field who can deal with this. I suggest you have an operation so that nothing grows out of you again," the Russian leader said.

Mr. Putin, don't wait for them to come to Moscow, it's time you to send your specialists to chechnya, doctors-without-borders-style, yeah?
Posted by Dripping Sarcasm 2004-09-01 8:06:10 AM||   2004-09-01 8:06:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Encyclopedic Dan Darling, or other reader: There was a discussion, I think in LGF, about 1-2 weeks ago, where someone mentioned a friend who encountered ominous warnings in a Jihadi bulletin board. The discussion contained links, etc. The preductions in this case seem to have played out with some fidelity. Do you or anyone else here recall that discussion, and can you get me a link to it? Thanks.
Posted by longtime lurker 2004-09-01 8:42:54 AM||   2004-09-01 8:42:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#4  Right now it looks like Basayev's launched a series of major attacks in and outside of Chechnya. Whether this is something he came up with on his own (and he's certainly a bloodthirsty enough bastard) or whether this is being internationally coordinated with the rest of al-Qaeda remains to be seen. If it's the latter, then we should know soon enough.
Posted by Dan Darling  2004-09-01 9:26:59 AM|| [http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com]  2004-09-01 9:26:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 You can only wonder what they hope to accomplish by this – other than feed their thirst for blood and headlines. Now that blowing up busses and planes full of people only rates a one day news cycle, – they have moved to killing children in the hopes of extending their glory to 24/7. What happens when even that becomes status quo? Anyone who thinks these wanna’bes wouldn’t love to access a nuke- is in serious denial.
Posted by B 2004-09-01 10:05:37 AM||   2004-09-01 10:05:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 You can only wonder what they hope to accomplish by this – other than feed their thirst for blood and headlines.

They think it will put them in paradise.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-09-01 10:14:04 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com]  2004-09-01 10:14:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 I'm guessing logic and strategy is not a strong point of the jihadi's.

Pissing off Russians? BRILLIANT.
Posted by Anonymous4021 2004-09-01 10:44:38 AM||   2004-09-01 10:44:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Yet, when President Bush refers to these people as "evildoers", he is heckled by the left as being naive, simple, stupid, etc...

Is there any better word for these monsters than "Evil"?
Posted by Dripping Sarcasm 2004-09-01 11:17:31 AM||   2004-09-01 11:17:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Fred's comment in the article body has it right. The only way to stop a psychopath is to show him the consequences of his action will be that he will be hurt in some way. Worked pretty well for a while with G'daffy after the F-111 bomb run. Actions will have to be systematic and ruthless. It is us or them. I will pick No. 2 for the survival of the nation, Alex.
Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-09-01 11:27:03 AM||   2004-09-01 11:27:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 I posted this thought on another thread, but I see the discussion is here.

These terrorists don't really have a particular goal in mind other than to express their rage.

Oh, sure, they say it's for Jihad...but these AQ jihadi's are really just glorified serial killers; they are more interested in the headlines and the fact that they can make the greatest powers in the world feel helpless next to their actions.

Just like serial killers, they will just keep ratcheting up the horror level until they are stopped. There are no demands that can be met that would ever stop their quest for blood.

I don't have any answers and I don't disagree that perhaps, (as in Jenin), hitting them where it hurts, might have an impact... but where will that "cycle of violence(TM) end? Ah don't jump down my throat, it's a valid question, even if the cliche has been so over-used as to make it meaningless.

I'm not trying to understand the terrorists, and I realize that we are going to have to become more ruthless if we want to survive. I'm just saying that if we have to start killing people, not directly involved with the acts of violence, its sad.

There is no real end in sight. Sigh.
Posted by B 2004-09-01 11:58:19 AM||   2004-09-01 11:58:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 the picture of that little girl just rips at my heart. What is wrong with these people? What is wrong with the Muslim people that allows them to sit quietly and only ask that the babies be removed?

I just fear for the response that we will become capable of, if these barbaric actions continue.
Posted by B 2004-09-01 12:07:10 PM||   2004-09-01 12:07:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 #2 - Send them to Chechnya, let a few scalpels slip, population growth of Muslims slows dramatically!
Posted by BigEd 2004-09-01 12:14:40 PM||   2004-09-01 12:14:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Oh, don't piss off the Riussians, I've been married to one for 9-1/2 years, and all I can say is, don't piss of the Russians!

A lotta virgins, in blocks of 72, shall be needed soon
Posted by BigEd 2004-09-01 12:16:55 PM||   2004-09-01 12:16:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 You can only wonder what they hope to accomplish by this – other than feed their thirst for blood and headlines.

I thought the same thing about the protesters at the Republican convention. What's your point ? Oh, there are protesters, let's change our platform, nominate Hillary and pull out of Iraq.
Posted by Crikey 2004-09-01 12:59:11 PM||   2004-09-01 12:59:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 B: We're not talkin' about people here. They're animals lacking all humanity.
Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-09-01 1:06:50 PM||   2004-09-01 1:06:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 looking at that picture...something good died in me today.
Posted by B 2004-09-01 1:16:21 PM||   2004-09-01 1:16:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 As Wretchard wrote so eloquently in April or May, events like this in war will harden us all. The level of the acceptable will rise and the only way to stop the cycle is to win the war. We as a people will accept a completely differnt set of collateral damage inflicted on our enemies as time goes by. We are in a war, and it is not just about Iraq, it is about our survival. We must win.
Posted by remote man 2004-09-01 1:29:18 PM||   2004-09-01 1:29:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 exactly right, remote man, but Russia's military is too incompetent, demoralized and corrupt to win. Time for us to let NATO die a quiet death and start stepping up cooperation with Putin. And with India, Israel and Turkey. A new Entente awaits.
Posted by lex 2004-09-01 1:31:47 PM||   2004-09-01 1:31:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Folks, this is a full on terrorist campaign, up to and including Islamic friendly shills posting on board such as this and elsewhere.

We can't afford to let one single unsunstantiated change/fact pass without undergoing a microscopic examination.

Right now, Chechen islamists are trying to blame the Russian government for the attacks.
Posted by badanov  2004-09-01 1:47:44 PM|| [http://www.rkka.org]  2004-09-01 1:47:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 looking at that picture...something good died in me today.

Are you sure? Was it something good dying, or was it something good waking up and refusing to accept what's going on?
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-09-01 1:48:52 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com]  2004-09-01 1:48:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 wrong century, boris badanov. We need Russia to be on our side now, not cozy up to Iran. Whatever it takes-- $$$ for their nuclear industry, help in reogranizing their incompetent military.
Posted by lex 2004-09-01 1:50:28 PM||   2004-09-01 1:50:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 #16 looking at that picture...something good died in me today.

Take heart. Remember for each of those muslim terrorist scum in there, there are a dozen or more soldiers (like the one in the picture) willing to die to save those children. Take heart in that.
Posted by AllahHateMe 2004-09-01 1:53:59 PM||   2004-09-01 1:53:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 wrong century, boris badanov

Huh?
Posted by badanov  2004-09-01 2:24:44 PM|| [http://www.rkka.org]  2004-09-01 2:24:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#24  May God bless and keep safe those children, parents, civilians, and soldiers.
Posted by 98zulu 2004-09-01 2:35:00 PM||   2004-09-01 2:35:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 "Hostages for hostages, reprisals for atrocities: Inform the Islamic Heroes™ that for every hostage killed, two members of their immediate families will be killed. "

They can start with those already convicted and in prison. Then use common DNA to track down any survivors in the "wild." Sure it's expensive, but this is ~200 kids we're talking about
Posted by Anonymous6256 2004-09-01 3:17:08 PM||   2004-09-01 3:17:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 ntv.ru translated by Altavista Babelfish

Negotiations with the bandits have begun who took over the school in Beslane.

At long last contact has been established contact
with the terrorists who took school in the North Osetian city Beslane.
And now a special group has begun telephone negotiation process.
North-Caucasian NTV bureau chief Ruslan Gusarov, several minutes ago reported that the chief for administration FSB of Russia for North Osetia Valerie Andreev said that the negotiations go with difficulty. However, still more difficult it was to attain their beginning, because any approach to the school caused gunfire from the terrorists who were down there.
Posted by BigEd 2004-09-01 3:19:19 PM||   2004-09-01 3:19:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 looking at that picture...something good died in me today.

I know the feeling. But for me it was the sight of the WTC collapsing. But what died that day was my illusions.

But I'm glad that I know what I know now. We have a chance to minimize the bloodshed that was begun between us and them on that day. But if we let them win the horror will never end for anyone not ever.

May God be with those whose job it is to protect and save.

Posted by peggy  2004-09-01 4:04:54 PM||   2004-09-01 4:04:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Putin's gonna take a PR hit on this one.
Hundreds of schoolchildren seized, and he hasn't even been seen by the public. Where is he? Vacationing in Sochi.
Terrorist blows up in Moscow? Where is he? Vacationing in Sochi.
Planes drop from the sky? Where is he? Vacationing in Sochi.
Posted by Baltic Blog 2004-09-01 4:05:05 PM||   2004-09-01 4:05:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 I have some faith in Putin. He is not going to negotiate here anymore than he did in that theater a while back.

This guy is a hard ass and former KGB to boot. I'm sure he is working on a plan to trick the terrorists as we speak.

I just pray for the childrens sake that they've perfected that gas thing by now. Or maybe they have something even better.

All I know is that Putin doesn't play with these people. You would think they would realize that by now.

The first step in winning any struggle is to know your enemy, dumb-asses!
Posted by peggy  2004-09-01 4:09:51 PM||   2004-09-01 4:09:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Remoteman (#17) has it right. Events like this really are hardening us all. The parallels with the second world war are obvious, early on the RAF tried hard not to bomb civilian areas, but by July '43 we had firebombed Hamburg and in Feb '45 it was Dresden.

There will come a stage when we will 'write off' people (yes, even kids) who are captured by terrorists. The terrorists may be given one chance to let them all go, and serve life terms, or Armageddon will be unleashed. We will be looking at Carthaginian proportions of revenge. One victim is killed, 100, 1000 die in retribution. Please, no 'cycle of violence' arguments - that only has relevance with similarly matched adversaries.

The Russians sent a few heads back in a bucket in Beirut when one of their own was kidnapped. He was released. Our lot didn't do that - cue Terry Waite and John McCarthy...

This is what is necessary to win this war. We in the West are not prepared to do that - yet.
Posted by Tony (UK) 2004-09-01 4:14:18 PM||   2004-09-01 4:14:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 i think the russians should take out thier anger on the Arab countrys that fund this shit, 'cluster nuke' them, cut off the food at least to these middle eastern shit holes that support this sick shit. Hope this wakes the Bear up, and i think it just might, if anyones got the guts to crush the eneamy no holds barred with none of this treason like left wing anti war bullshit from its own people there, the russkies have the will the means and the dont give a fuck attitude to squash these jihadi scum!
Posted by Shep UK 2004-09-01 4:21:09 PM||   2004-09-01 4:21:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 'cluster nuke'!! - amazing imagery coming through from that...

I've just read the larger thread on this, and clicked through to the Russian speaking blogger who is translating. It's heart-breaking stuff.
Posted by Tony (UK) 2004-09-01 4:57:42 PM||   2004-09-01 4:57:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 #31 "Hope this wakes the Bear up, and i think it just might.." It took a few weeks before we "woke up" after 9/11, so I guess time will tell on that one. My question is, is the Russian nuke arsenal still viable to do the job? Would hate to see them drop a few duds over Teheran, unless it was the carcasses of these terrorist scum...
Posted by IG-88 2004-09-01 5:17:24 PM||   2004-09-01 5:17:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 Maybe they could ask the Israelis for help in rescue/execution? I suppose Spetnaz has gone the way of the rest of the army?

[sigh] I'm beginning to think Ferdinand & Isabela had it right. Forcibly convert them to Christianity, turn the mosques into churches, exile or kill the religious leaders. Prohibit moslems from entering the country for any reason.
Posted by jackal  2004-09-01 5:19:47 PM|| [http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]  2004-09-01 5:19:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 ref: any post which calls for nuking the ME.

I honestly have to wonder about someone with so little faith in our arms and in the creativity and merit of those who protect us that they believe that it will have to come to that.

Maybe someday it might, but to talk as if that day were somehow inevitable loses us moral ground over these abominable monsters. We must focus on winning well as if that were our only option if we want to hope to claim the moral high ground in this awful mess. We should not even be wasting our time and our brain power with talk like that.

The other thing about it is, the more we throw around talk about nuking people, the greater our chances of being nuked first by some weaker nation. If I was a weak guy, I would try a decapitation strike if the big guy was talking about wiping me off the map.

I want to win this and still be proud that we are not like them. That means searching for the kind of inspired solutions that American are famous for before we decide to enter the filthy gutter that these people crawl around in.

We should fight tooth and nail against any hardening just on principle. We are a decent if imperfect people and we should not be so quick to anticipate the day when we have to set decency aside and bomb indiscriminately
Posted by peggy  2004-09-01 5:21:16 PM||   2004-09-01 5:21:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 Putin was ticked off quite a bit with the theater, given this, he might start channeling Stalin on how to deal with these people.

Honestly, I think if just one country on this planet facing a crisis like this WOULD burn their enemies nation down to the bedrock, it might stop alot of killing. If they see that yes, taking kids hostage gets your nation incinerated from the face of the earth, they might actually decide it's not worth it. I think until somebody gets fried, we're simply going to continue to see this sort thing happen. Doing this doesn't necessarily require nukes, it could be done through conventional means, it's simply more cost effective to use nukes.
Posted by Silentbrick  2004-09-01 5:44:02 PM||   2004-09-01 5:44:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 I want to win this and still be proud that we are not like them. That means searching for the kind of inspired solutions that American are famous for before we decide to enter the filthy gutter that these people crawl around in.

We should fight tooth and nail against any hardening just on principle. We are a decent if imperfect people and we should not be so quick to anticipate the day when we have to set decency aside and bomb indiscriminately

Eloquently put, peggy. This is why I advocate holding Medina and Mecca hostage. Sadly, in terms of what the Arab street will understand and respect, I fear SilentBrick is probably much closer to the truth. At some point, erasing an entire nation from the face of this earth may well prove the only way to convey the seriousness of our intent to eradicate terrorism for once and all. Even now, it is an "us or them" situation, just not quite so desperate to the point of anihilating an entire nation. Should Iran begin handing out atom bombs like party favors, all of that might quickly change.
Posted by Anonymous6166 2004-09-01 10:19:46 PM||   2004-09-01 10:19:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 I honestly have to wonder about someone with so little faith in our arms and in the creativity and merit of those who protect us that they believe that it will have to come to that.

Because it could come to that. It's called the worst possible scenario, something a competent planner will never avoid addressing.

Claiming the high moral ground might feel really good, but proving our moral superiority to barbarians or anyone else isn't going to cause the barbarians to stop trying to kill as many us as they can, and trading the lives of our countrymen in pursuit of it is a fool's errand.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-09-01 11:00:19 PM||   2004-09-01 11:00:19 PM|| Front Page Top

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