Article

2022-06-20 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

Putin ‘threatens action' against ex-Soviet states if they defy Russia

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Posted by Thing From "Angleton-99-666" Mountain 2022-06-20 00:00|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [11144 views ] Top
File under: Commies

#1 So you're admitting there was never a "Union" of Socialists Soviets, just another Russian Empire?

Posted by Mercutio 2022-06-20 08:31|| 2022-06-20 08:31|| Front Page Top

#2 Hostage Vassal States

Posted by Frank G 2022-06-20 08:57|| 2022-06-20 08:57|| Front Page Top

#3 Czar Vlad the First? Peter already owns the "Great".

Posted by Procopius2k 2022-06-20 10:30|| 2022-06-20 10:30|| Front Page Top

#4 'We must not give Putin an opening': Ex-SAS chief demands Britain prepares to 'fight in Europe' as he becomes second general to warn of looming threat from Russia

Posted by Skidmark 2022-06-20 10:31|| 2022-06-20 10:31|| Front Page Top

#5 What benefit is there in absorbing another pile of depopulated rubble?

Mobility impediment. A moat of concrete and steel.

Posted by Skidmark 2022-06-20 10:32|| 2022-06-20 10:32|| Front Page Top

#6 Hope it goes better for Blighty than it's going for Ukraine. Or maybe we should say "went" for Ukraine... A week of days like yesterday and they're finished. A roundup of yesterday's slaughter... it's a doozy:

High-precision air and ground weapons (https://t.me/mod_russia_en/2262) in the areas of Kremenchug and Lisichansk have destroyed technological facilities for oil refining and fuel storage intended to supply Ukrainian military equipment in Donbass. Russian air defence means have shot down 1 Ukrainian Su-25 aircraft near Kamyshevakha and 1 Mi-24 helicopter of the Ukrainian Air Force near Arkhangelsk in Donetsk People’s Republic.

High-precision air and ground weapons in the areas of Kremenchug and Lisichansk have destroyed technological facilities for oil refining and fuel storage intended to supply Ukrainian military equipment in Donbass.

Donetsk:
High-precision air-based missiles have hit 12 firing positions of AFU artillery and mortar units, including 4 platoons of Grad multiple-launch rocket systems near Avdeevka, Keramik and Zhelannoe and 4 platoons of M777 155-mm howitzers near Lastochkino, Ochertino, Vodyanoe and Zhelannoye in Donetsk People’s Republic.

Operational-tactical and army aviation have hit 62 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration.

Lugansk, Kharkov and Lisichansk:
The attacks have resulted in the elimination of
..more than 160 nationalists,
..1 Buk-M1 surface-to-air missile system near Kamyshevakha in Lugansk People’s Republic,
..5 Grad multiple rocket launcher vehicles,
..6 tanks and other armoured combat vehicles,
..8 field artillery guns,
..6 special-purpose vehicles and 3 ammunition depots near Tsapovka in Kharkov Region and Lisichansk in Lugansk People’s Republic.

Russian air defence means have shot down 1 Ukrainian Su-25 aircraft near Kamyshevakha and 1 Mi-24 helicopter of the Ukrainian Air Force near Arkhangelsk in Donetsk People’s Republic.

Also 8 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles have been shot down near Borovenka in Lugansk People’s Republic, Chernobaivka in Kherson Region, Sukhaya Kamenka, Malaya Kamyshevakha, Zabavnoe in Kharkov Region, and Gulyaipole in Zaporozhye Region, including 1 Bayraktar-TB2 near Kherson.

In addition, 4 Ukrainian Tochka-U ballistic missiles have been intercepted naer Stakhanov, Kalinovo, Almaznoe in Donetsk People’s Republic, as well as 24 Uragan multiple-launch rockets over Donetsk, Yasynuvataya, Verhnetoretskoe, Luganskoe, Novoaleksandrovka in Donetsk People’s Republic, Zolotoe, Popasnaya in Lugansk People’s Republic, Izium, Russkie Tishki and Malye Prokhody in Kharkov Region.

Missile troops and artillery have hit 180 areas of manpower and military equipment concentration, 16 command posts and 32 firing positions of AFU artillery units.

The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than 310 nationalists, 10 tanks and other armored fighting vehicles, 3 Grad multiple rocket launchers, 9 field artillery mounts and 14 special vehicles.

Posted by Claviling Gonque4210 2022-06-20 10:51|| 2022-06-20 10:51|| Front Page Top

#7 At least it's good to know Ukraine's winning the war, and has to win and will win.

Even though Macron's government just got smashed.
Even though Johnson's government is about to fall.
Even though Biden's about to lose both houses of Congress.
Even though the West's efforts to isolate Russia have destroyed their own economies.

Defeat is the new victory.

Posted by Claviling Gonque4210 2022-06-20 10:59|| 2022-06-20 10:59|| Front Page Top

#8 That's 470 Ukrainians killed plus probably another 1,000+ wounded... so now the daily slaughter for Ukraine is well over one thousand. The little T-Shirt Guy told us it was "only" 60-100 just a couple weeks ago.

This is why the propaganda press in the West is trying to talk about World War III, and pretending that Russia's "running out" of troops....

They can't prolong this slaughter much longer. Ukraine is dusnbeted. The war is a total fiasco for the poor Ukrainians and for the West. Their economic policies are a complete debacle.

Just bring it to a conclusion, you fools. Stop lying to your people. You're just killing yourselves.

Posted by Claviling Gonque4210 2022-06-20 11:07|| 2022-06-20 11:07|| Front Page Top

#9 *Ukraine is destroyed. Demolished. Dismembered. Disintegrated.

Posted by Claviling Gonque4210 2022-06-20 11:09|| 2022-06-20 11:09|| Front Page Top

#10 ^ "4 days to take Kyiv"

Posted by Frank G 2022-06-20 11:12|| 2022-06-20 11:12|| Front Page Top

#11 $11 trillion in wealth destroyed
Gas prices up from $2 to $5
Real incomes shrunk by -6%
Fuel rationing this winter
Diesel rationing soon

New York Times headline: "Get ready for PAIN"

We understand you hate Russia. But why chop off your own legs to spite Putin? Why are you doing this to yourselves?

Posted by Claviling Gonque4210 2022-06-20 11:22|| 2022-06-20 11:22|| Front Page Top

#12 ^ signed: "A Concerned Conservative"

Posted by Frank G 2022-06-20 11:27|| 2022-06-20 11:27|| Front Page Top

#13 Russia's not attacking the West. Crimea belongs to Russia, and Ukraine generally is none of America's business.

Why are you killing yourselves?
Why do you believe the ridiculous bullshit that Biden & co. are spewing at you?

Posted by Claviling Gonque4210 2022-06-20 11:28|| 2022-06-20 11:28|| Front Page Top

#14 believe the ridiculous bullshit that Biden & co. are spewing at you?

Anyone actually familiar with this site already know the answer to that.

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-06-20 11:34|| 2022-06-20 11:34|| Front Page Top

#15 Notice the recent switch from "Nazis" to "Ukrainian nationalists". Who I suppose are similar to "Kazakh nationalists" or "Polish nationalists".

Posted by Matt 2022-06-20 11:54|| 2022-06-20 11:54|| Front Page Top

#16 Even though Macron's government just got smashed...

So, when is Putin up for re-election? Who's the leading contender to run against him? And when will that person fall off the top of a building?

Posted by Matt 2022-06-20 11:58|| 2022-06-20 11:58|| Front Page Top

#17 So, when is Putin up for re-election? Who's the leading contender to run against him? And when will that person fall off the top of a building?

Putin terms out in 2024, uness the Russian Duma changes the law again.

Posted by badanov 2022-06-20 12:00|| 2022-06-20 12:00|| Front Page Top

#18 Ukraine is dusnbeted.

Is that anything like encurcked?

Posted by Abu Uluque 2022-06-20 12:02|| 2022-06-20 12:02|| Front Page Top

#19 Public opinion in every European country except Poland has turned decisively in favor of negotiations. Only a handful of far-right parties, such as in Sweden and Italy, are strongly in favor continuing to try to punish Russia. (In France the far right favors negotiations.)

The margin is almost 2:1, with another 25% of the public reluctant to continue the war but still on the fence. Most of them will come out against the war soon -- it was anti-war sentiment from both the left and the right that destroyed Macron's party in the recent parliamentary elections.

The latest meme is the photo of Macron staring off into space while half-embracing Zelensky.

The message is very clear. The West's leaders are preparing to distance themselves from Zelensky.

Negotiations will happen soon.

Posted by Jean-Paul 2022-06-20 13:16|| 2022-06-20 13:16|| Front Page Top

#20 Could someone try to give a good-faith, unsarcastic and intelligent answer to the poster's questions:

"Why chop off your own legs to spite Putin?
Why are you doing this to yourselves?"

Thank you.

Posted by Jean-Paul 2022-06-20 13:17|| 2022-06-20 13:17|| Front Page Top

#21 Figures the referential link offered https://t.me/mod_russia_en/2262
requires telegram.

Let's hear your answer JP.

Posted by Skidmark 2022-06-20 13:23|| 2022-06-20 13:23|| Front Page Top

#22 The survey was conducted a month ago - public opinion had already shifted before the Russians began pulverizing the Ukrainians in Severodonetsk and Lysychansk. Therefore it's likely that a majority (not just a plurality as before) of Europeans today support negotiations.

"A study by the European Council on Foreign Relations published Wednesday found that a plurality of Europeans, about 35%, favor “peace now even at the cost of Ukrainian concessions to Russia.” The startling figure strongly suggests that Europe’s appetite to hold Moscow accountable for the war may be crumbling. The survey was conducted in mid-May and sampled 8,000 Europeans.

About 22% of respondents said “justice” is the most important consideration. They say only Russia’s clear defeat can bring about peace. Another 23% declined to choose between those options, and 20% were classified as swing voters.

The survey showed extreme differences from one country to another. For example, 52% of the Italian public and 49% of the German public favor immediate peace, but just 16% of Polish citizens share that view. Instead, 41% of Poles say defeating Russia is the No. 1 priority and the only path to peace, compared with 19% of Germans and 16% of Italians.

In France, 41% called for peace and just 20% fell into the “justice” category. In Britain, the public was split, with 22% calling for immediate peace and 21% saying Russia must be defeated. The remaining 39% of French citizens and 58% of Britons either declined to choose or were classified as swing voters, according to the report.

“ 'The findings of the poll suggest that European public opinion is shifting, and that the toughest days may lie ahead. The resilience of European democracies will mostly depend on the capacity of governments to sustain public support for policies that will ultimately bring pain to different social groups,” the European Council on Foreign Relations said in a statement accompanying its report. “The survey reveals a growing gap between the stated positions of many European governments and the public mood in their countries. The big looming divide is between those who want to end the war as quickly as possible and those who want to carry on fighting until Russia has been defeated.”

Posted by Jean-Paul 2022-06-20 13:31|| 2022-06-20 13:31|| Front Page Top

#23 Kiev in four days. Right.
Notice how much propaganda effort is now going in to pushing negotiations? Now its the big thing. Got to make you go hmmmmm.

Posted by Procopius2k 2022-06-20 13:42|| 2022-06-20 13:42|| Front Page Top

#24 The link is from today's post by former CIA and anti-terrorism analyst Larry Johnson on his website: sonar21.com

Posted by Jean-Paul 2022-06-20 14:01|| 2022-06-20 14:01|| Front Page Top

#25 Larry Johnson? *snort*

Posted by Frank G 2022-06-20 14:18|| 2022-06-20 14:18|| Front Page Top

#26 Putin's red line means something.

Posted by Dale 2022-06-20 14:20|| 2022-06-20 14:20|| Front Page Top

#27 3/23/22
Larry C. Johnson: "The Ukrainian Army Has Been Defeated. What's Left Is Mop-Up
Question 1– Can you explain to me why you think Russia is winning the war in Ukraine?

Larry C. Johnson– Within the first 24 hours of the Russian military operation in Ukraine, all Ukrainian Ground Radar Intercept capabilities were wiped out. Without those radars, the Ukrainian Air Force lost its ability to do air to air intercept. In the intervening three weeks, Russia has established a de facto No Fly Zone over Ukraine. While still vulnerable to shoulder fired Surface to Air Missiles supplied by the U.S. and NATO to the Ukrainians, there is no evidence that Russia has had to curtail Combat Air Operations.

Russia’s arrival in Kiev within three days of the invasion also caught my attention. I recalled that the Nazi’s in Operation Barbarossa took seven weeks to reach Kiev and the required 7 more weeks to subdue the city. The Nazis had the advantage of not pulling punches to avoid civilian casualties and were eager to destroy critical infrastructure. Yet many so-called American military experts claimed that Russia was bogged down. When a 24 mile (or 40 mile, depends on the news source) was positioned north of Kiev for more than a week, it was clear that Ukraine’s ability to launch significant military operations had been eliminated. If their artillery was intact, then that column was easy pickings for massive destruction. That did not happen. Alternatively, if the Ukrainian’s had a viable fixed wing or rotary wing capability they should have destroyed that column from the air. That did not happen. Or, if they had a viable cruise missile capability they should have rained down hell on the supposedly stalled Russian column. That did not happen. The Ukrainians did not even mount a significant infantry ambush of the column with their newly supplied U.S. Javelins.

The scale and scope of the Russian attack is remarkable. They captured territory in three weeks that is larger than the land mass of the United Kingdom. They then proceeded to carry out targeted attacks on key cities and military installations. We have not seen a single instance of a Ukrainian regiment or brigade size unit attacking and defeating a comparable Russian unit. Instead, the Russians have split the Ukrainian Army into fragments and cut their lines of communication. The Russians are consolidating their control of Mariupol and have secured all approaches on the Black Sea. Ukraine is now cut off in the South and the North.

I would note that the U.S. had a tougher time capturing this much territory in Iraq in 2003 while fighting against a far inferior, less capable military force. If anything, this Russian operation should scare the hell out of U.S. military and political leaders.

The really big news came this week with the Russian missile strikes on what are de facto NATO bases in Yavoriv and Zhytomyr. NATO conducted cyber security training at Zhytomyr in September 2018 and described Ukraine as a “NATO partner.” Zhytomyr was destroyed with hypersonic missiles on Saturday. Yavoriv suffered a similar fate last Sunday. It was the primary training and logistics center that NATO and EUCOM used to supply fighters and weapons to Ukraine. A large number of the military and civilian personnel at that base became casualties.

Not only is Russia striking and destroying bases used by NATO regularly since 2015, but there was no air raid warning and there was no shutdown of the attacking missiles.

Posted by Frank G 2022-06-20 14:21|| 2022-06-20 14:21|| Front Page Top

#28 JP, is Putin willing to recognize Ukraine as an independent state with its own military? And if so what would the approximate boundaries of that independent Ukraine be? And would Putin allow unfettered shipment of grain by Ukraine through ports on the Black Sea? And last, why should anyone believe a word Putin says?

Posted by Matt 2022-06-20 14:23|| 2022-06-20 14:23|| Front Page Top

#29 The agreement that Russia signed and upheld was Minsk II. That was an infinitely better deal for Ukraine than what Ukraine now faces

Posted by Jean-Paul 2022-06-20 14:30|| 2022-06-20 14:30|| Front Page Top

#30 The US ands Ukraine were unwilling to abide by the Minsk agreements. Why should Russia trust them to honor promises they make in future?

Posted by Cloluck Bourbon1058 2022-06-20 14:35|| 2022-06-20 14:35|| Front Page Top

#31 The US and Ukraine were unwilling to abide by the Minsk agreements. Why should Russia trust them to honor promises they make in future?

Posted by Cloluck Bourbon1058 2022-06-20 14:36|| 2022-06-20 14:36|| Front Page Top

#32 Notice the recent switch from "Nazis" to "Ukrainian nationalists".

In Russian-language articles, Putin's mouthpieces have said those two terms are synonymous.

And, yeah, I have noticed the sudden shift to calling for negotiations from the Putin Puppet Parade. Amazing how Russia has been able to count on useful idiots in the US for more than a century.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-06-20 14:51|| 2022-06-20 14:51|| Front Page Top

#33 ^ The war there is clearly not meeting Washington's objectives and the economic fallout is not helping.

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-06-20 14:56|| 2022-06-20 14:56|| Front Page Top

#34 #3 Czar Vlad the First? Peter already owns the "Great".

"For Rus to lose space is unbearable!
When anywhere, barren or arable,
Has ever been Russian,
It's ours! End discussion!"
- Vovochka the Great and the Terrible

Posted by Ulomoter Tojo7289 2022-06-20 15:29|| 2022-06-20 15:29|| Front Page Top

#35 The war there is clearly not meeting Washington's objectives and the economic fallout is not helping.

That line of BS is clearly coming from Moscow, not DC. And I don't mean Moscow, Ohio.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-06-20 16:27|| 2022-06-20 16:27|| Front Page Top

#36

Posted by European Conservative 2022-06-20 16:32|| 2022-06-20 16:32|| Front Page Top

#37 Everyone's now talking about the negotiations to come. Edward Luttwak today said the terms of the peace treaty need to include

1. No NATO membership for Ukraine - the West has already conceded this

2. (eventual) EU membership for Ukraine - Russia has already conceded this

3. Plebiscites to allow the people of Donetsk and Luhansk to decide which nation they wish to be part of

4. Lifting of the US sanctions on Russia

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 17:24|| 2022-06-20 17:24|| Front Page Top

#38 Trump just spoke against the war, forcwhich Hillar Vlinton attacks him with the ludicrous lie that re-electing Trump "is Putin's only path to victory."

Spengler/David P. Goldman today:
Donald Trump is Magnificently Right About Ukraine

"Clinton bears the lion’s share of the blame for the horrific bloodshed now underway in Ukraine: As Secretary of State, Clinton and her chief Europe aide Victoria Nuland helped stage-manage the Maidan Coup in Ukraine that set the present war in motion.

"It is revolting, but not surprising, to see the leaders of the Republican Establishment try to out-shout the Democrats over Ukraine. The consensus echo chamber generates a stream of chatter so deafening that it takes a big voice to boom over it, and Donald Trump is the only American politician with a voice that big. Thank God we have him."

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 17:54|| 2022-06-20 17:54|| Front Page Top

#39 ^ correction: for which Hillary Clinton

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 17:55|| 2022-06-20 17:55|| Front Page Top

#40 Of course Macron, Scholz and Draghi are pushing Zelensky to make concessions and negotiate a peace settlement. This is what is happening behind the scenes, away from the bluster and theater and propaganda.

A Polish deputy minister today admitted this to a Polish news outlet:

Polish deputy FM says EU leaders urged Kyiv to engage in peace talks with Moscow
20.06.2022

A Polish deputy foreign minister has said that the leaders of France and Germany and two other European Union countries encouraged Ukraine to engage in peace talks with Russia when they visited Kyiv last week.

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 19:01|| 2022-06-20 19:01|| Front Page Top

#41 Gosh. It's almost as if our new one/two-named "friends" who mysteriously appeared after the Russian Aggression failure are reading from the same talking points, right, Billy, Alistaire, Jean-Paul, et al?

Posted by Frank G 2022-06-20 19:31|| 2022-06-20 19:31|| Front Page Top

#42 ^ No, Billy's as American as borscht. What part of the country you from, Billy?

Posted by Matt 2022-06-20 20:09|| 2022-06-20 20:09|| Front Page Top

#43 The US ands Ukraine were unwilling to abide by the Minsk agreements. Why should Russia trust them to honor promises they make in future?

Russia was unwilling to abide by the Budapest Agreement. It's clear treaties are so much toilet paper to the Russian government. That's fine, and not exactly unprecedented. Some differences just have to be settled on the battlefield. The fact that national boundaries mean nothing to Russia are exactly why the West should continue to supply Ukraine, but at increased levels, to make up for the big guns that have fallen silent due to attrition and ammunition expenditure. The Russians not only need to lose - they need to know that they have lost. In the nuclear age, a thrust to Moscow would be risky. But the complete removal of Russia to its prewar positions would not be. And that should be NATO's objective, going forward.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2022-06-20 20:20|| 2022-06-20 20:20|| Front Page Top

#44 "Same talking points" - LOL

like Edward Luttwak (in Bolivia)
David P Goldman (in Singapore)
Macron in Paris, Draghi in Rome,
Donald Trump in Florida and
Graham E. Fuller, former Vice Chair of the National Intelligence Council at CIA, are all part of the same cabal. Yeah, sure...

Here's Graham E. Fuller this week:

Some hard thoughts about post Ukraine
Graham E. Fuller (grahamefuller. com)
18 June 2022

The war in Ukraine has dragged on long enough now to reveal certain clear trajectories. First, two fundamental realities:

Putin is to be condemned for launching this war– as is virtually any leader who launches any war. Putin can be termed a war criminal–in good company with George W. Bush who has killed vastly greater numbers than Putin.

2) secondary condemnation belongs to the US (NATO) in deliberately provoking a war with Russia by implacably pushing its hostile military organization, despite Moscow’s repeated notifications about crossing red lines, right up to the gates of Russia. This war did not have to be if Ukranian neutrality, á la Finland and Austria, had been accepted. Instead Washington has called for clear Russian defeat.

As the war grinds to a close, where will things go?

Contrary to Washington’s triumphalist pronouncements, Russia is winning the war, Ukraine has lost the war. Any longer-term damage to Russia is open to debate.

American sanctions against Russia have turned out to be far more devastating to Europe than to Russia. The global economy has slowed and many developing nations face serious food shortages and risk of broad starvation.

There are already deep cracks in the European façade of so-called “NATO unity.” Western Europe will increasingly rue the day that it blindly followed the American Pied Piper to war against Russia. Indeed, this is not a Ukrainian-Russian war but an American-Russian war fought by proxy to the last Ukrainian.

Contrary to optimistic declarations, NATO may in fact ultimately emerge weakened. Western Europeans will think long and hard about the wisdom and deep costs of provoking deeper long term confrontations with Russia or other “competitors”of the US.

Europe will sooner or later return to the purchase of inexpensive Russian energy. Russia lies on the doorstep and a natural economic relationship with Russia will possess overwhelming logic in the end.

Europe already perceives the US as a declining power with an erratic and hypocritical foreign policy “vision” premised upon the desperate need to preserve “American leadership” in the world. America’s willingness to go to war to this end is increasingly dangerous to others.

... a Europe that perceives the US already in decline has a little incentive to join the bandwagon against China. The end of the Ukraine war will bring serious reconsideration in Europe about the benefits of propping up Washington’s desperate bid to maintain its global hegemony.

Europe will undergo increasing identity crisis in determining its future global role. Western Europeans will tire of subservience to the 75 year American domination of European foreign policy. Right now NATO is European foreign policy and Europe remains inexplicably timid in asserting any independent voice.How long will that prevail?

We now see how massive US sanctions against Russia, including confiscation of Russian funds in western banks, is causing most of the world to reconsider the wisdom of banking entirely on the US dollar into the future. Diversification of international economic instruments is already in the cards and willl only act to weaken Washington’s once dominant economic position and its unilateral weaponisation of the dollar.

One of the most disturbing features of this US-Russian struggle in Ukraine has been the utter corruption of independent media. Indeed Washington has won the information and propaganda war hands down, orchestrating all Western media to sing from the same hymnbook in characterizing the Ukraine war. The West has never before witnessed such a blanket imposition by one country’s ideologically-driven geopolitical perspective at home. Nor, of course, is the Russian press to be trusted either.

In the midst of a virulent anti-Russian propaganda barrage whose likes I have never seen during my Cold Warrior days, serious analysts must dig deep these days to gain some objective understanding of what is actually taking place in Ukraine.

European elites are perhaps slowly coming to the realization that they have been stampeded into this position of total “unanimity”; cracks are already beginning to appear in the façade of “EU and NATO unity.” But the more dangerous implication is that as we head into future global crises, a genuine independent free press is largely disappearing, falling into the hands of corporate-dominated media close to policy circles , and now bolstered by electronic social media, all manipulating the narrative to its own ends. As we move into a predictably greater and more dangerous crises of instability through global warming, refugee flows, natural disasters, and likely new pandemics, rigorous state and corporate domination of the western media becomes very dangerous indeed to the future of democracy. We no longer hear alternative voices on Ukraine today.

Finally, Russia’s geopolitical character has very likely now decisively tilted towards Eurasia. Russians have sought for centuries to be accepted within Europe but have been consistently held at arms length. The West will not discuss a new strategic and security architecture. Ukraine has simply intensified this trend. Russian elites now no longer possess an alternative to accepting that its economic future lies in the Pacific where Vladivostok lies only one or two hours away by air from the vast economies of Beijing, Tokyo, and Seoul. China and Russia have now been decisively pushed ever more closely together specifically out of common concern to block unfettered US freedom of unilateral military and economic intervention around the world. That the US can split US-induced Russian and Chinese cooperation is a fantasy. Russia has scientific brilliance, abundant energy, rich rare minerals and metals, while global warming will increase the agricultural potential of Siberia. China has the capital, the markets, and the manpower to contribute to what becomes a natural partnership across Eurasia.

Sadly for Washington, nearly every single one of its expectations about this war is turning out to be incorrect. Indeed the West may come to look back at this moment as the final argument against following Washington’s quest for global dominance into ever newer and more dangerous and damaging confrontations with Eurasia. And most of the rest of the world–Latin America, India, the Middle East and Africa– find few national interests in this fundamentally American war against Russia.

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 20:25|| 2022-06-20 20:25|| Front Page Top

#45 A Polish deputy foreign minister has said that the leaders of France and Germany and two other European Union countries encouraged Ukraine to engage in peace talks with Russia when they visited Kyiv last week.

That's not entirely surprising. Jacques Chirac was on Saddam's payroll. And Gerhard Schroder is on Putin's payroll. Both Macron and Scholz are presumably hoping for normalization with Putin's regime so they can collect their paychecks from Putin once they're done with politics. Normalization's gonna be hard with a hot war going on next door.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2022-06-20 20:25|| 2022-06-20 20:25|| Front Page Top

#46 hot war

Ukraine has lost the war.

Macron, Scholz and Draghi are telling the little man in Kyiv what he needs to do to stop the carnage.

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 20:36|| 2022-06-20 20:36|| Front Page Top

#47 And most of the rest of the world–Latin America, India, the Middle East and Africa– find few national interests in this fundamentally American war against Russia.

No doubt the rest of the world will refuse to export good and services to the US. "A billion dollar contract with IBM? No thanks! We're going with Eritrea instead."

Posted by Matt 2022-06-20 20:37|| 2022-06-20 20:37|| Front Page Top

#48 Edward Luttwak (in Bolivia)
David P Goldman (in Singapore)
Macron in Paris, Draghi in Rome,
Donald Trump in Florida and
Graham E. Fuller, former Vice Chair of the National Intelligence Council at CIA, are all part of the same cabal. Yeah, sure...

Luttwak and Goldman may be opining out of ethnic resentment. A good number of Jews have displaced their anger over the Holocaust onto Poles and Ukrainians. In this world view, Germans, for some reason, are now the accomplices, not the motive force. So if Ukrainians have to die, Ukrainians have to die.

Graham Fuller, one of Billy Budd's quoted luminaries, may have played a part in getting the Boston Marathon bombers into the country:

After the Boston Marathon bombing, it was revealed that Fuller's daughter Samantha Ankara Fuller (married name Tsarnaev) was married in the 1990s to Ruslan Tsarni (born Tsarnaev), the uncle of the perpetrators Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev.[16] They divorced on April 26, 1999, in Orange County, North Carolina.[17]

Macron and Draghi are presumably looking to get on Putin's gravy train. As to Trump, in foreign policy, he tends to spout off on things he knows nothing about. Just because. As usual, he's playing 38DD chess.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2022-06-20 20:37|| 2022-06-20 20:37|| Front Page Top

#49 so they can collect their paychecks

You could be a comedian with Zelensky's troupe. "Collecting paychecks" from Ukrainian thieves is literally what the US president's family and a skew of corrupt US State Department officials and consultants have been doing for two decades.

The current DefSec, Lloyd Raytheon Austin, is literally on the payroll of one of the biggest MIC piggies at the Ukraine trough.

Comedy gold!
🤡

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 20:41|| 2022-06-20 20:41|| Front Page Top

#50 Luttwak is an ancient Cold Warrior and uber-hawk who hates Russia. Try again.

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 20:43|| 2022-06-20 20:43|| Front Page Top

#51 Ukraine has lost the war.

That will come as a surprise to the Russians still struggling to advance in a war where Russia is slinging 50,000 artillery shells against Ukraine's 5,000 every single day. Now, if the West does not increase the number artillery pieces and ammunition available to Ukraine, Ukraine will likely lose. But if the West matches the Russian count of big guns and ammo supply, Russia will start moving in reverse the way it did around Kiev and Kharkov.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2022-06-20 20:43|| 2022-06-20 20:43|| Front Page Top

#52 ^ So: You're not really an American?

Posted by Matt 2022-06-20 20:44|| 2022-06-20 20:44|| Front Page Top

#53 Face truth, little grasshoppa... it's obvious to sober, realistic and savvy people outside the Swamp echo chamber and from around the world that this war is the stupidest fucking disaster since... our last idiotic foreign debacle. The one that ended in disgrace just 11 months ago.

Everyone with his head on straight can see that Ukraine is in a vastly worse position now than they were just six months ago. The intelligent thing to do is to cut our losses and bring this farcical episode to a swift conclusion.

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 20:48|| 2022-06-20 20:48|| Front Page Top

#54 ZF actually is, and his name is not that

Posted by Frank G 2022-06-20 20:48|| 2022-06-20 20:48|| Front Page Top

#55 Luttwak is an ancient Cold Warrior and uber-hawk who hates Russia. Try again.

I've been reading Luttwak's work for around 40 years. He doesn't hate Russia. He's just pro-West. And that's the way it should be. He's a man of the West, his adopted realm since his move to the UK in his childhood.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2022-06-20 20:49|| 2022-06-20 20:49|| Front Page Top

#56 Zheng Fei is what Little Grasshoppa call self on internets

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 20:50|| 2022-06-20 20:50|| Front Page Top

#57 He responds, "Billy"

Posted by Frank G 2022-06-20 20:53|| 2022-06-20 20:53|| Front Page Top

#58 Sorry, ZF, my question was not directed to you.

Posted by Matt 2022-06-20 20:53|| 2022-06-20 20:53|| Front Page Top

#59 ^ Re: #40 Have you ever actually read Melville's Billy Bud? It's objectively quite good, but is also considered a foundational work of homoerotic literature. It's taught in queer studies classes.

Posted by Secret Master 2022-06-20 20:57|| 2022-06-20 20:57|| Front Page Top

#60 Jesus, even Luttwak sees that the war is a shitshow and the sanctions are self-defeating and pointless. Luttwak is calling for peace negotiations anchored by plebiscites for Donbas and lifting of the sanctions.

Got that? Even Luttwak sees that the sanctions are retarded and continuing the war is counterproductive.

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 21:01|| 2022-06-20 21:01|| Front Page Top

#61 Billy Bud?

Happy Hour's started! Bud Lights are on Secret Mastur-!

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 21:03|| 2022-06-20 21:03|| Front Page Top

#62 take a step further, troll

Posted by Frank G 2022-06-20 21:07|| 2022-06-20 21:07|| Front Page Top

#63 Face truth, little grasshoppa... it's obvious to sober, realistic and savvy people outside the Swamp echo chamber and from around the world that this war is the stupidest fucking disaster since... our last idiotic foreign debacle. The one that ended in disgrace just 11 months ago.

Re debacles - the collapse of the Afghan regime was Biden's incompetence rearing its ugly head again. But the expedition as a whole was the opposite of a debacle. We spent literally $1T smacking the Taliban upside the head for 20+ years. Large numbers of Taliban leaders were hunted down and killed. They were replaced, for sure, but the point has been made.

Any jihadist leader who expedites another operation like 9/11 can expect to spend the rest of his days on the run. We killed a good number of Taliban family members while hunting them down. Now, the way this worked was somewhat haphazard, but again, the point was made. Anyone who does this can expect family members to become part of the carnage.

People make a big deal out of how these people love death as we love life. Based on tales of Taliban corruption and squabbling over money, and zero terror attacks against the US organized by the Taliban after 9/11, I'd say they love both money and life just like everyone else.

I wouldn't quite call the Russian invasion of Ukraine a debacle yet. It might still pull out a win, depending on the rate of Western resupply. But it has lost significant numbers of men and large amounts of equipment fighting one of the poorest nations in the world, in per capita terms. And the West is supplying peanuts to Ukraine.

The US alone supplied 14,000 airplanes and 13,000 tanks to the Russians. The US sent 5% of its annual economic output to Russia. In today's economy, that would be $1.1T. So far, the total appropriated amounts for Ukraine are $56b, over 90% of which is civilian aid.

Note that out of gratitude for WWII American aid, the Russians sent copious amounts of equipment to North Korea and North Vietnam, helping to send 100,000 GI's to an early grave. That aid included cutting edge MiG-17's piloted by Russians that went up against USAF F-86 Sabres over Korea and top-of-the-line MiG-21's used against USAF F-4 Phantoms over North Vietnam. The Ukrainians are getting none of that. Given the tiny amounts of aid they have gotten, and the severe disparity in military potential due to Russia's huge advantage in population size and natural resource abundance, it's amazing how well the Ukrainians have done.

If the West merely decreases Russia's firepower advantage from 10 to 1 to 2 to 1, the situation could change pretty dramatically. Ukraine might begin advancing rapidly instead of retreating slowly.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2022-06-20 21:14|| 2022-06-20 21:14|| Front Page Top

#64 He's just pro-West.

How does it help the West to destroy our economies and continue losing a war that's caused our little puppet to lose over 20% of its entire territory and over 80% of its productive resources?

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 21:14|| 2022-06-20 21:14|| Front Page Top

#65 A debacle for the US. The Obama-Biden fools led the Ukrainians down the garden path, encouraging them with false hopes of joining NATO and egging them on to rip up Minsk and make absurd boasts about snatching Crimea.

As so many have pointed out, the Ukraine war and the stupid sanctions are an own goal. Another colossal fuckup that's even worse for us than our Afghan and Iraq fuckups combined

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 21:36|| 2022-06-20 21:36|| Front Page Top

#66 You're insane. You actually think losing Afghanistan, handing over billions in weaponry to the enemy, scurrying out in disgrace -- and spending a TRILLION in the process -- is victory.
🤡
No wonder you cheer on the Ukraine shitshow. You're the Wrong Way Harrigan of armchair strategists.

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 21:40|| 2022-06-20 21:40|| Front Page Top

#67 Cheer up, Grasshoppa! Your big day arrive soon:

July 17 - National Wrong Way Corrigan Day

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 21:44|| 2022-06-20 21:44|| Front Page Top

#68 How does it help the West to destroy our economies and continue losing a war that's caused our little puppet to lose over 20% of its entire territory and over 80% of its productive resources?

Because the alternative is a 100% loss. If we could be sure Ukraine was the end of Putin's ambitions, I'd say hand it over. In real life, we can't be sure. For many conquerors, the limit to their ambitions comes into view only when they are comprehensively defeated.

When Hitler* said "this is my last territorial demand in Europe" over Munich, he wasn't saying anything exceptional. All conquerors say something like this. (Conquests are easier when the nations on your list don't gang up on you). Then they move on to the next conquest. That's why we assist the targets of their operations to the extent we can.

Ultimately, Russian is 70% the size of the NATO countries combined. It straddles 11 time zones. If Russia isn't currently big enough, it will never be big enough.

Russia's treasure house of natural resources makes Saudi Arabia and the African continent look deprived, by comparison. Putin's not interested in material gain. And he knows a NATO with border nations that don't even have fixed wing jet fighters isn't about to invade Russia. But he gins up some fable about a NATO threat anyway. Because the truth, that he wants to be Vladimir the Greater (the Great is already taken) wouldn't be good for troop morale. No soldier wants to be cannon fodder so Vladimir the Vain gets his historical pedestal. But the mask slipped, and Putin finally mentioned Peter the Great.

* In truth, when Germany set out on its European tour, it did have much better reason than Russia to seek out a little more room. The Thirty Years War involved multiple European nations tromping through the various German principalities. At the end of the festivities, large swathes of what is now Germany suffered 50% population declines. Except perhaps in the Mongol era, Russia has *never* suffered anything remotely comparable. And you could literally fit 35 pre-war Germanies into the Russian empire.

Russia needs to be prevented from conquering Ukraine because we don't actually know what its next objective will be. And even if Putin stops with Ukraine, the next Russian ruler who wants to improve on Putin's record will have a better start line for his ambitions. And so on.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2022-06-20 21:48|| 2022-06-20 21:48|| Front Page Top

#69 ...says the man who thinks it was worth it to spend a trillion and lose thousands of killed and maimed just to be humiliated and defeated by neanderthals in a 20-year fiasco. Jesus.

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-20 21:56|| 2022-06-20 21:56|| Front Page Top

#70 You're insane. You actually think losing Afghanistan, handing over billions in weaponry to the enemy, scurrying out in disgrace -- and spending a TRILLION in the process -- is victory.

Of course it's victory. The trillion dollars is pocket change. We spent 2 years of economic output fighting WWII. In today's economy, that's $44T.

We said we fought WWII for freedom. Nothing could be further from the truth. We supported one genocidal regime (the Russians) against another (the Germans). We left huge swathes of Europe under one genocidal regime's rule. And we lost 400,000 men killed doing it. By comparison, what happened in Afghanistan was a rounding error.

In truth, we fought WWII to prevent either Germany or Russia from taking over Europe. Similarly, we fought Japan to prevent it from taking over the Far East.

The stuff about freedom in Afghanistan was a fig leaf. We needed to whack enough jihadists that they got the message loud and clear - staging large scale terror attacks on US soil can be hazardous to their health and the welfare of their direct and extended families, especially if these are deeply-involved in the family business. "Freedom" was something our local allies could rally to in a way that "whacking jihadists" (who might be their friends and neighbors) couldn't quite match. You know how Putin talks up the non-existent NATO threat when he's really out for personal glory? Same thing. Gotta give the guys in the trenches something they can root for.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2022-06-20 22:04|| 2022-06-20 22:04|| Front Page Top

#71 ^ that one's off his rocker. Afghanistan a success: ok buddy

Posted by Uloter Schwarzeneggar5645 2022-06-20 22:21|| 2022-06-20 22:21|| Front Page Top

#72 ...says the man who thinks it was worth it to spend a trillion and lose thousands of killed and maimed just to be humiliated and defeated by neanderthals in a 20-year fiasco. Jesus.

We were "defeated" in a trivial sense. We won over 90% of the major and minor battles. Our "defeat" did not involve the Taliban taking a single American city or getting access to its resources. If you want to know what it means to be defeated in a non-trivial sense, ask the Germans and the Japanese.

Ultimately, our "defeat" sprang from our inability* to resort to Taliban tactics, which have worked to pacify populations from at least Alexander's time onwards, on a shoestring budget. Here's a sampling:

Four months later, Alexander allowed the troops to loot Persepolis, kill all its men and enslave all its women, perhaps as a way to fulfill the expectations of his army and the Greek citizens, or perhaps as a final act of vengeance towards the Persians.[26]

The Greeks went on to rule Persia for 250 years. 2500 years laer, the Taliban did something similar in Mazar-e-Sharif:

However the Taliban retaliated in 1998 attacking the city and killing an estimated 8,000 non-combatants. At 10 am on 8 August 1998, the Taliban entered the city and for the next two days drove their pickup trucks "up and down the narrow streets of Mazar-i-Sharif shooting to the left and right and killing everything that moved—shop owners, cart pullers, women and children shoppers and even goats and donkeys."[14] More than 8000 noncombatants were reported killed in Mazar-i-Sharif and later in Bamiyan.[15] In addition, the Taliban were criticized for forbidding anyone from burying the corpses for the first six days (contrary to the injunctions of Islam, which demands immediate burial) while the remains rotted in the summer heat and were eaten by dogs.[16] The Taliban also reportedly sought out and massacred members of the Hazara, while in control of Mazar.[14]

If we had pushed the entire Pashtun population into Pakistan, we would likely have achieved victory at minimal cost. But 21st century Western ROE's intervened.

It is what it is. Nonetheless, the principal objective of these operations was achieved. Nothing on the scale of 9/11 has been attempted in the US since the war began.

And it's not even that difficult an operation. A couple of guys with a few thousand dollars and a rented Ryder van killed 300 people in a mid-sized Federal building in Oklahoma City. Just how difficult would it be to destroy an actual skyscraper with a fully-loaded semi, inflicting 10x the deaths on 9/11?

They're not backing off because they suddenly like us. They've backed off because they don't want to spend 20 years on the run.

* I guarantee that any president who initiated the kind of butchery used in Alexander's time would be impeached, removed from office and imprisoned. Along with every subordinate who obeyed his orders.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2022-06-20 22:25|| 2022-06-20 22:25|| Front Page Top

#73 ^ This guy's rolling now. Like a Peter Sellers character from a Kubrick black comedy. Totally bonkers.

Posted by Hupinetle Prince of the Algonquins1381 2022-06-20 22:30|| 2022-06-20 22:30|| Front Page Top

#74 ^ that one's off his rocker. Afghanistan a success: ok buddy

Name a single 9/11-scale terror attack on the US since Afghanistan was invaded. No shortage of terror attacks in the Middle East. And it's not like jihadists like us any better since we invaded Afghanistan *and* Iraq. The excuse for 9/11 was that we had troops stationed in Saudi Arabia. Well - after 9/11, we invaded two Muslim countries, starting wars in which almost a million Muslims were killed, most of them Sunnis, just like the jihadists. If jihadists hated us then, they likely hate us more today. And yet, on the 9/11-scale attacks front, *crickets*. This is what deterrence sounds like - *crickets*.

The jihadist leadership wants to eventually meet Allah in paradise - just not yet - and definitely not with an assist from Uncle Sam. That's why they're not doing 9/11 scale attacks on US targets again.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2022-06-20 22:34|| 2022-06-20 22:34|| Front Page Top

#75 Some more "success," according to the site's resident nutter:

A Second American Has Died In Ukraine. He's Unlikely to be the Last

Zabielski’s final days were spent in a chaotic conflict zone rife with miscommunication, confusion, and incidents of friendly fire, according to a member of his unit. And as the war grinds on with terribly heavy casualties on both sides, it’s likely that more American fighters will die.

Posted by Snitch Trotsky7847 2022-06-20 22:53|| 2022-06-20 22:53|| Front Page Top

#76 Success!

"Nettles blames the thickness of the vegetation, the heaviness of the fog, and a failure to maintain proper distance between personnel for what happened next. “Stephen apparently triggered a trip wire, which detonated a mine that killed him and severely injured Gary,” Nettles says.

The bad news went out over the radio, and a Canadian fighter named JT drove a vehicle in the direction of the explosion to evacuate the casualties. But JT had trouble crossing some train tracks, and in an effort to get over, he made a serious mistake. He maneuvered the vehicle over a portion of the tracks that had not yet been cleared of mines. “Which resulted in his vehicle exploding with him still inside,” Nettles says.

With the sun coming up over the horizon and the Russians in close proximity, the rest of the squad had to bring the casualties out on foot. When they got to the burning vehicle on the train tracks, they found that JT, while severely injured and badly burned, was able to walk. Down where the other two guys had been hit by the land mine, they found Zabielski already dead, and Gary badly wounded, both of his legs broken below the knees.

The squad carried Gary out on a makeshift stretcher. Extraction of Zabielski’s body would have to wait for the following day.

Back at the rally point, JT and Gary were loaded into an SUV that drove hell-for-leather in the direction of the nearest hospital. On the way there, Nettles recorded a video of the wounded men. It shows Gary’s bloody legs horribly broken, the bones inside completely snapped, his pant legs shredded. He sucks in ragged breaths, moaning in agony, as the SUV jostles over a rough road. “We’re going to be there soon,” Nettles says, trying to reassure him, but his voice is shaking. JT, his head wrapped in a white bandage, appears to be conscious but in shock. The Canadian “didn’t look as bad” as Gary, but “was actually worse,” Nettles says. “He was in the car when it blew up and roasted before getting out.”

Both Gary and JT were treated at a hospital and survived their injuries. The Ukrainians sent Gary home to the United States, Nettles says, but JT “is still here, unable to walk, dealing with massive burns over most his body.”

The next day, May 16th, Zabielski’s body was taken to the local morgue. “After that, he was taken to Kyiv and handed over to the U.S. Embassy,” Nettles says. He was “flown home to Florida, where his wife held a funeral for him.”

Posted by Snitch Trotsky7847 2022-06-20 23:02|| 2022-06-20 23:02|| Front Page Top

#77 ^ This guy's rolling now. Like a Peter Sellers character from a Kubrick black comedy. Totally bonkers.

Which part? The matter of fact quote from Wikipedia of Alexander's and the Taliban's post-battle actions? Or my suggestion that the lack of 9/11-scale terror operations reflects the fear of death on the part of jihadist commanders? Note that 9/11 was the second WTC bombing. The first, in 1993, failed in its intent - to bring the towers down. There's every reason to think they'd like to kill large numbers of Americans again to avenge the hundreds of thousands of jihadist dead inflicted in Afghanistan and Iraq. And, as similar truck bombings in the Middle East indicate, there's no shortage of expertise in that particular specialty.

And yet, *crickets*, in terms of 9/11-scale terror attacks stateside. It's not as if they lack Muslims for the job. Dubya and Obama opened the floodgates to Muslim immigratioin. Trump slowed it down, but Biden has turned it into a torrent again.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2022-06-20 23:05|| 2022-06-20 23:05|| Front Page Top

#78 Some more "success," according to the site's resident nutter:

Ukraine has successfully held back Russian gains. It pushed Russian forces away from both Kiev and Kharkov. And it is now more or less holding the line around Severodonetsk. This is despite Ukraine having no air force to speak of, and a 10-to-1 Russian advantage in artillery. By rights, Russia should be on the Polish border. And yet ...

Posted by Zhang Fei 2022-06-20 23:11|| 2022-06-20 23:11|| Front Page Top

#79 More success!

"The big brooding soldier is unshaven, his fatigues filthy from combat, except for a field hat that is clearly brand new. The local driver who has been shuttling me around has agreed to bring the soldier to Dnipro: He has leave papers and is trying to get home to Mykolaiv, so that’ll take him about halfway. The fuel shortage is critical in eastern Ukraine for non-military traffic, so filling a civilian car with strangers headed roughly the same direction has become a common practice: There are Telegram channels where people offer and seek rides to and from every city.
Less than 30 minutes into the drive, Sasha opens up suddenly and unexpectedly. What he reveals is chilling, and indicative of how bad things have gotten in Donbas.
“I nearly beat to death one of the men in my unit,” he confides. “We were in trenches on the front lines. He was using his cellphone.”
Sasha breathes heavily.
“The Russians tracked his signal and located our position. He called his mom for 15 minutes, then his wife for 15 minutes … and then his girlfriend for almost two hours. They bombarded us all night. That’s why I beat him.”

Later, he tells us more about the front.

“We lost six men on our first patrol,” he says. “Six out of 10. They were all my friends.”

He breaks down and begins to cry.

Sasha eventually admits that he has been given leave to go to a hospital to seek therapy, for what soldiers a century ago would have called shell shock and what we now call PTSD. He has been given 10 days to recover from his battlefield trauma and return to his unit.

When we have a chance to talk alone, he shows me videos of his wedding in October. He tells me he is scared to talk to his family about his experiences. Sasha doesn’t want to return to combat. All he can think about are the soldiers who were killed on his first patrol.

“Those six men were my friends, they were my brothers, and I love them very much,” he says. “I can’t just leave them behind. I will always carry them with me.”

He looks down, overcome with emotion.

“What is in my heart is that I never wish to see Donbas again in the future. Nothing you do there makes any difference.”

Posted by Snitch Trotsky7847 2022-06-20 23:28|| 2022-06-20 23:28|| Front Page Top

#80 Big brave armchair warrior, sneering at trillions wasted in botched wars, at thousands dead and tens of thousands maimed and ruined for life

Go out to a real battlefield and see what it's really like.

Ukrainians are being slaughtered. Prolonging this pointless war even by one more day is obscene.

Posted by Snitch Trotsky7847 2022-06-20 23:32|| 2022-06-20 23:32|| Front Page Top

#81 ^ You are Herb and I claim my five rubles!

Posted by Knuckles Chereger4665 2022-06-20 23:35|| 2022-06-20 23:35|| Front Page Top

#82 Big brave armchair warrior, sneering at trillions wasted in botched wars, at thousands dead and tens of thousands maimed and ruined for life

Go out to a real battlefield and see what it's really like.

I think you misunderstand the role of sympathetic foreign civilians in Ukraine's war. Its most important role is to convince other civilians that more equipment should be sent to help Ukraine evict the Russian troops on its soil. In concert, they might have some impact on the zeitgeist and the politicians who have to appropriate the money to acquire and send the weaponry. Ukraine has plenty of soldiers. Its problem is that they are dying needlessly in large numbers because Russia outguns them 10 to 1. The West has the power to even the odds by giving Ukraine the firepower it needs. But that will only happen when voters tell Western pols in no uncertain terms that their continued tenure depends on providing those guns expeditiously.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2022-06-20 23:49|| 2022-06-20 23:49|| Front Page Top

#83 “The Russians tracked his signal and located our position. He called his mom for 15 minutes, then his wife for 15 minutes … and then his girlfriend for almost two hours. They bombarded us all night. That’s why I beat him.”

That is precisely the problem. If Ukraine weren't outgunned 10 to 1 (and outranged) by the Russians, the Russian artillery units would have been destroyed within minutes after they started their attacks. Without the Russian range, tube quantity and ammo supply advantage, there is no way the Russians would have been able to barrage the Ukrainians all night.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2022-06-20 23:54|| 2022-06-20 23:54|| Front Page Top

#84 The articles above are dispatches from a former Marine who's been embedded with Ukrainians in the Donbas.

The war is a complete disaster for everyone involved. The intelligent and civilized thing to do is to bring it to an end immediately.

Posted by Flineque Elmereling7869 2022-06-20 23:55|| 2022-06-20 23:55|| Front Page Top

#85 If the armchair warrior knew anything about actual battle, he would realize that the big problem for the Ukrainians not munitions but morale.

Most of their soldiers now are untrained recruits like "Sasha," the PTSD survivor in the account above, who wants no part of this war... these are ordinary Joe's with next to no training who have no interest in this pointless war. They are the ones being slaughtered now in droves

Posted by Flineque Elmereling7869 2022-06-20 23:58|| 2022-06-20 23:58|| Front Page Top

23:58 Flineque Elmereling7869
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22:59 DarthVader
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22:34 Zhang Fei
22:30 Hupinetle Prince of the Algonquins1381
22:25 Zhang Fei
22:21 Uloter Schwarzeneggar5645
22:04 Zhang Fei
21:58 Ulomoter Tojo7289
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