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2005-06-14 Home Front: WoT

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Posted by Fred 2005-06-14 00:00|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [11152 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 It's up to Dubya, Fred.

Posted by badanov 2005-06-14 00:18|| http://www.freefirezone.org]">[http://www.freefirezone.org] 2005-06-14 00:18|| Front Page Top

#2 Fred.
Its because George has been too goody two shoes esp. with regards to his friends the Saudis.

Look at this quote from Michael Ledeen, writing in the National Review:

more time has passed since 9/11 than transpired between Pearl Harbor and the surrender of the Japanese empire, and our most lethal enemies are still in power and still killing our people and our friends.

It is good that the desire for freedom is now manifest among the oppressed peoples of the Middle East and Central Asia, and it is very good that dramatic strides toward self-government have been taken by the Georgians, Kyrgistanis, Ukrainians, Iraqis, and Lebanese. But it is not good enough. Indeed, it is shameful that we have yet to seriously challenge the legitimacy of the terror masters in Tehran and Damascus, who represent the keystone of the terrorist edifice.

Our enemies know this, because, to their delight and perhaps their surprise as well, they are still in power throughout the Middle East. Until and unless they are removed, the terror war will continue, our friends in the region will be killed, tortured, and incarcerated, and the presidentâs vision of regional democratic revolution will go down the memory hole.

Posted by 3dc 2005-06-14 00:26|| 2005-06-14 00:26|| Front Page Top

#3 Well then Bush and the Pubs in congress better grow a couple of balls and start acting like they won the election last November.

Thye can start by telling the Dems in congress: "F-U! We are the majority and we'll nuke judicial nomination filibustering. Quit ya bitching and start governing this country asswipes."

The tell CAIR, the ACLU, and the U.N. "F-U! If we flush, piss on, mishandle the koran too farking bad - grow up and get a real God who can defend his own holy book. We are not going to apologize to asshats who deliberately target and murder innocent civilians. We are going to start enforcing the Geneva Convention to-the-letter and start shooting illegal combatants in the field like they deserve."

Then tell the Media, "F-U! We are not going to apologize to you. We are not even going to talk to you unless you start telling the *whole* *truth* and quit working with the enemy."

Then tell Mexico, "F-U! Clean up your act and keep your people on your side of the border. We are going to start patroling the border and shipping illegal aliens back to Mexico City and leave them there.

Posted by CrazyFool 2005-06-14 00:35|| 2005-06-14 00:35|| Front Page Top

#4 I don't want to see us lose this war, but I'm coming to the conclusion that we will

I'd say slightly more than half of the US population, and a sizable number of their international supporters, would disagree. You'd have to make us disappear first. Things have changed after 9-11. Dhimmitude? NFW! over my dead body

Posted by Rafael 2005-06-14 00:48|| 2005-06-14 00:48|| Front Page Top

#5 Posted by CrazyFool 2005-06-14 00:35|| Front Page|| Comment Top

yoo tryinta instegait em nuther verchual march?

Posted by muck4doo 2005-06-14 00:52|| http://meatismurder.blogspot.com/]">[http://meatismurder.blogspot.com/] 2005-06-14 00:52|| Front Page Top

#6 A new scene is about to appear that will make everyone feel better.

The Iraqi people are now about to put Saddam on trial.

Let me repeat that.

The Iraqi people are now about to put Saddam on trial.

The press will HAVE to cover this and the 12-14 counts are trully horrendous.

America will look like Marshal Dillon, this will get your moral back up guys. It will also put a seriously bad light on on-going terrorism.

AND the Iranian women are acting up becuase they see thier sisters in Afghanistan on one side and their sister in Iraq on the other side with freedoms. They are now being very vocal about wanting those same feedoms in major demonstrations this weekend.

CHIN UP GUYS!

Posted by RG 2005-06-14 00:52|| 2005-06-14 00:52|| Front Page Top

#7 muck - that wasn't my virtual march (oh yeah... that will show-em! Only a LLL could think of that!).

RG, I hope so. But I am afraid the media will focus on such stupid things as 'How Saddam looks' and 'Oh, he scratched his left buttcheek! He must have been tortured!' and anything else *but* the charges and evidence.

Thank God for blogs (Thanks Fred!) and the Internet.

Posted by CrazyFool 2005-06-14 01:05|| 2005-06-14 01:05|| Front Page Top

#8 Darkest before the dawn? RG is right, CHIN UP! We know this is a 2 front war. I say it's high time to switch focus to the home front and clean house of the scum that honestly do want to see us lose. I have felt for a long time that there is a sick faction of the left wing that sees our defeat as their quickest, surest way back to power. They would actually serve gladly, knowingly, the very masters that would slit their throats. It wouldn't matter at all - as long as they were in power for a that brief moment.

Posted by Rex Mundi 2005-06-14 01:12|| 2005-06-14 01:12|| Front Page Top

#9 The term "Freedom Fries" shows how deep this farkwitt is. One reason I am not registered as a Republican is Guys like this. No going back and no tossing in the towel. Perhaps he should move to France.

Posted by Sock Puppet 0â Doom 2005-06-14 01:27|| 2005-06-14 01:27|| Front Page Top

#10 This is a fight that we cannot walk away from. This is a fight to the death. I understand Fred's pessimism---I feel the darkeness around me, too. I think that it will get worse before it gets better. This whole madness is building up to something---a great shock. Nuke perhaps? Maybe. Something big to shake up the whole world. Europe cannot keep going the way it's going without disintegrating. The US is strong, but it is divided. The ChiComs are planning for the long term. We need leadership and common purpose.

Here we are as a nation, being wacked around by the LLL over a bent Koran and a prison full of madmen and murderers that should have been blown to bits by B-52s in Konduz. How far we have fallen.

Yes, I believe that it is going to take a great shock to bring this country out of its malaise. This is a fight to the death for the soul of this great nation. A lot of people know this already. A lot more need to know.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2005-06-14 01:30|| 2005-06-14 01:30|| Front Page Top

#11 ~~Howard Johnson~~ Badanov is right! GWB seems to be MIA right now. But Fred is also correct - its up to us to hold our politicians' feet to the fire or we deserve what we get. All that I can hope is that we're in a lull similar to the one before the Iraq invasion, where we were all driven to near madness by the endless months of UN crap. Bush has made it clear that an Iranian nuke is unacceptable and so far he's kept his word on other stuff. But if we get to '08 and nothing has been done, I think we're really screwed.

Posted by PBMcL 2005-06-14 01:42|| 2005-06-14 01:42|| Front Page Top

#12 C'mon Fred, Robert Spencer re-ups his "I told you so" post, everytime the let's-democraticize-the-Islamofascists mentality is released from the spin-bag. Read my lips: one cannot be a slave-of-Allah and a circumspect elector. One cannot promote US safety, by subsidizing competing Sunni-Shiite Islamofascisms in the Iraq territorial-demographic dog's breakfast.
http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=detail&storyid=393129

It is a fact that Bush pronounced "Islam is peace," after Oval Office consultation with AMC, ISNA, and other US jihadi fronts that still receive State Department consultation fees. Imagine the problem of conducting WW2, if FDR pronounced "Fascism is peace," 6 days after Pearl Harbor. Read some of Ralph Barton Perry's famous WW2 letters to the New York Times, in defense of the war, for a dose of the noble realism that is lacking in our spin-dystopia.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010917-11.html

I suspect that GWB's worst apologists never made the trip to the top of the WTC, as I did in 1990. If they had, then they would want bloody pacification. That will happen because it has to happen. Cut the head off the snake, and the body dies. Nuke Mecca!

Posted by War on Islam 2005-06-14 02:56|| 2005-06-14 02:56|| Front Page Top

#13 just thinking;

Didn't our fearless pols scramble for their lives just the other day when a flying instructor got *lost* over Washington DC and buzzed the capitol.

[what an inspiring lot of dismal asshats they are...jezbus]

Confronted with non stop drivel from foggy bottom, Congress and the MSM I think a sane person should feel a little low now and again.

But Inspite of the slime, jellyfish & 5 columinsts, in some ways we are in a better position now to have some effect on our fate than we were not very long ago, when the professinal critters had total control of the public square [w/the exception of a few books].

I guess that begs..will it be enough?

Rantberg and the Regulars have really helped me crytalize my thinking about the present and future danger our country and faces.

It doesn't by any means take all the people to stop the slide into Dhimmitude, it just takes Americans with grit. (and help from our 'ferigner' friends also)

Speaking of real grit and inspiration, if you haven't read, A Narrative of a Revolutionary Soldier by: Joseph Plumb Martin, it's a real treat.

Posted by Red Dog 2005-06-14 04:08|| 2005-06-14 04:08|| Front Page Top

#14 The press will HAVE to cover this and the 12-14 counts are trully horrendous.

Sure they have to cover it.

But they don't have to cover it fairly, accurately, or in any way resembling the truth. We're talking about the greatest enemy the US has ever had -- the modern press.

Every charge against Saddam will be accompanied by a "Why the US Didn't Stop Him" editorial, or a "More Abuse at Gitmo: Detainees Given Cheap Toilet Paper" story. Then they'll find a Democrat working at State who's willing to feed them anonymous tips about how the Iraqis are blowing it, how the whole trial's a farce and the whole country will collapse if he's convicted, blah, blah, blah.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-06-14 07:31|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-06-14 07:31|| Front Page Top

#15 I agree with Fred. A little less than half the country is still stuck in 1968. These people (including Swillary) never grew up. Now they are in power. The harder they push, the more crazies they bring out, and I'm not all that far from being one myself. I find that I no longer even care to discuss the issues with the LLL, because we live in different universes. We no longer share a common language as words do not mean the same thing to me as they do to them.

Posted by SR-71 2005-06-14 07:54|| 2005-06-14 07:54|| Front Page Top

#16 Walter Jones isn't a North Carolina conservative - he is a North Carolina "moderate". His ADA liberal quotient (LQ) is 30 - the average North Carolinian Republican Congressman has an LQ of 5. (Heck, there are North Carolinian *Democrats* with lower LQ's than Jones's). McCain's LQ, for example, is 35. Zell Miller's was 5. The media calls Jones a conservative for one of two reasons, (1) compared to reporters, Jones is probably a conservative or (2) as usual, they are deliberately being deceitful, in order to foster an image of conservatives in retreat.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-14 08:17|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-14 08:17|| Front Page Top

#17 Hmm...with the confidence in the newspapers and televsion down to 28%, you really think they're molding American opinion? Still stuck in 1968? Only they are. Yet with all the negative press on GWB he still beat Kerry. Now you're buying into their constructed myths. You actually buy their polls. I have a bridge in San Francisco I'd like to sale you. Just sit there an whine. Pity yourself. You give them so much power.

There's something out there no one, and unfortuately that includes the old tire hacks of the Republican machine, is paying attention to. When those same confidence polls rate the military, they come out at the top, in the 70 percentiles. Guess who's coming home now? Bright, motivated young men and women who while tired in the labors in Iraq have seen the 'good news'. Who burn inside because they don't want the sacrifices of their brothers to be wasted. Who know and chaff at the lies of the MSM. These gentleman, like our fathers returning from WWII, are a new generation to take their skills and dedication and place it in the political arena. Time to kick your local party official and tell them in no uncertain terms, they'd better be greeting and recruiting these servicemembers not for a vote, but for a job to represent their district, their state, their nation. Regardless of the party, if there is a defeatist sitting on the seat right now, its time for a new replacement. The time to start is now.

Posted by Ebbereck Uneregum5631 2005-06-14 08:48|| 2005-06-14 08:48|| Front Page Top

#18 You can sit around and cry about it if you want. But ask yourself what are you doing? Call your representatives and have your friends do the same. Furthermore, get involved with supporting the troops through various websites. Letters to the editors. etc etc.

Posted by JackAssFestival 2005-06-14 08:51|| 2005-06-14 08:51|| Front Page Top

#19 AND ... take on the idiotarians when you encounter them. We CANNOT AFFORD to agree with one another here but be silent when we're among them ... or among those who might be undecided.

We know what the imams and mullahs are preaching. We know what is being done to women and children in the Muslim world. We KNOW the involvement of France and other countries in abetting tyranny and hatred.

It's time for us to insist that that story get out publicly. Because it is NOT being portrayed in the MSM. People may not trust the MSM a lot, but it's the only source of info for many. It's time that WE step up to challenge the assumptions of many who will vote in this country.

Don't wait for Dubya or any other politician. Take back our country and public opinion now ... while we still have some sliver of a chance of doing so.

Posted by too true 2005-06-14 08:58|| 2005-06-14 08:58|| Front Page Top

#20 fred dont be so pessimistic. Not ALL dems are antiwar, not even wrt staying the course in Iraq. Hilary, whom, you mention, has remained staunchly committed to seeing a victory in Iraq. The antiwar folks hate her for that. (the holywood cultural left crowd is also nervous about the family values noises shes made, the things shes said about violent video games, and the like) Y'all may think of her as a socialist cause of healthcare, but the Hollywood left and the Upper West Side parlor pinks dont care about healthcare, being wealthy themselves. The 2008 Dem primary campaign is likely to brutal - if Hilary can beat the Deaniacs that will be a very good sign.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-06-14 09:19|| 2005-06-14 09:19|| Front Page Top

#21 Why this is even worser than TET!
Shit, get a gripe, this is going to be a long war than ends suddenly in victory. My bet is another 36 months, by then 3 other regime changes.

Posted by Shipman 2005-06-14 09:22|| 2005-06-14 09:22|| Front Page Top

#22 No wait, only two regime changes, Lebannons already happened.

Posted by Shipman 2005-06-14 09:22|| 2005-06-14 09:22|| Front Page Top

#23 from Sen. Hilary Clinton's speech to AIPAC

"Now, Israel is not only, however, a friend and ally for us, it is a beacon of what democracy can and should mean. It is, after all, a pluralistic democracy. It is, as many of us know from personal experiences, a very dynamic democracy with many points of view, and those are expressed with great frequency and vigor. So if people in the Middle East are not sure what democracy means, let them look to Israel, which has been and remains a true, faithful democracy.

But we know that the goal, the important, essential goal of a democratizing Middle East is complex, and it is not without risks. A few months ago, I went for the second time to Iraq and Kuwait and Afghanistan and Pakistan, and I returned home with hopefulness about what I had seen and learned, but also with a sense of caution about how we should proceed. In Iraq I saw firsthand the daily challenges confronting the Iraqi people. I met with a number of our troops, the brave young men and women who are on freedom's frontlines in Iraq. I met with our civilian representatives in the embassy and other agencies who are also risking their lives to help the Iraqi people.

And I met with representatives of the former interim Iraqi government and the newly elected Iraqi government, as well as private Iraqi citizens.

Now I came away with several overwhelming impressions. First, no matter what one thinks about events that have unfolded in Iraq, there is no doubt that the American military has performed admirably, with professionalism, and that every young man and woman who wears the uniform of our country deserves our support, whether they be active duty, guard, or reserve troop.

You know, it is on trips like that -- despite the often dangerous circumstances, I wish I could bring every one of my constituents -- all 19 million of them and any others who could come -- to see firsthand. I flew from Baghdad to Fallujah in a Blackhawk helicopter; met with the Marines who had liberated Fallujah from the insurgents and terrorists.

I met with many others of our Marines and soldiers who are committed to their mission to try to bring freedom to the people of Iraq. They, as well as the troops I saw in Kuwait and in Afghanistan, are committed to this fundamental belief that people deserve the right to be free, deserve the right to select their own government, deserve the right to plot and plan for a better future for themselves and their children.

I hope that each of you, as you travel through your states and communities, will make it a point to thank these young people, because they're paying a very high price: 1,600-plus lost their lives; thousands and thousands have returned home grievously injured. Because of the advances in battlefield medicine and the new body armor that our troops wear, many are surviving injuries that would have left previous generations of young men and women dead. "

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-06-14 09:25|| 2005-06-14 09:25|| Front Page Top

#24 Somebody name for me an anti Viet Nam war congressman, who, in 1968, was talking about liberating towns from the terrorist VC. Heck, were pro-war congressmen talking like that?

This aint 1968.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-06-14 09:28|| 2005-06-14 09:28|| Front Page Top

#25 Keep talking, LH. You might convince yourself.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-06-14 09:32|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-06-14 09:32|| Front Page Top

#26 so, RC, can YOU name me an antiwar congressmen who went to VN in 1968 and came back talking about Marines who had liberated villages?

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-06-14 09:35|| 2005-06-14 09:35|| Front Page Top

#27 Hilly said that? She's not a chameleon, she's a changling!

Some good stuff up above, Fred. Take heart. And you are playing a role here, doing your part, working for the good guys!

Posted by Bobby 2005-06-14 09:44|| 2005-06-14 09:44|| Front Page Top

#28 RC: so, RC, can YOU name me an antiwar congressmen who went to VN in 1968 and came back talking about Marines who had liberated villages?

Hillary's a Senator with presidential ambitions who's never been overtly anti-war. Note that she's voted for every military appropriation in the war on terror. Prior to her trip, she had consistently *talked* about how the war on terror was a good thing. She's still *talking* that way. Now that the polls appear to be going in reverse, it will be interesting to see what Hillary says next. In any case, it's not what Hillary says on her way to a presidential nomination that matters - it's what she did. We don't need another Carter in the White House.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-14 09:49|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-14 09:49|| Front Page Top

#29 Of course Hillary's voted for the use of the military - she's gonna want that track record clean when she deploys them domestically ;-)

and yes, I know about Posse Comitatus

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-06-14 10:02|| 2005-06-14 10:02|| Front Page Top

#30 Fred, go re-read your wonderful post on the opinion page. What you wrote really helped me regain perspective when I was beginning to despair about the whole situation. Next, seriously, your seratonin levels may have dropped a bit. Take your lovely wife and whatever grandkids happen to be around, and go for a brisk walk -- at least 20 minutes. Fresh air, sunshine, and sustained aerobic exercise do wonders for the seratonin levels in those with normal metabolisms. Then get a good night's sleep. Inadequate sleep, especially of the critical REM stage, leads to a drop in seratonin levels and mental confusion. (Trust me on this one. I'm an expert!)

And finally, in this little housewife's opinion (an opinion, it must be admitted, informed by what I've learned at your site), we will not lose this war. If, as you fear, a Democrat lands in the White House next election, there will indeed be a slackening of the anti-Islamist effort. As a result, there will be An Incident. And the President (D), will fry 'em up, in .com's oft-used phrase. Not the way we want to win the war, true, but definitive nonetheless. And the following denizen of the White House will be a Republican, chosen to clean up the mess, while the Democratic Party dissolves into guilt-induced hysteria (legitimate, for a change) and mutual recriminations, to be replaced by the Libertarians in the role of Loyal Opposition.

And finally, remember that in all consumer surveys -- unless very carefully worded -- the answer is predicated in the question. So don't take the reported number of Americans against continuing in Iraq seriously. There is a television show about welcome home parties for individuals coming back from the war -- and every single one of those people will hear the truth from their own personal troop. Those poor anti-Bush, anti-war journalists haven't a chance!

(P.S. Feel free to notice that your mood has been lifted by my amusing naivete'. I won't mind.)

Posted by trailing wife 2005-06-14 10:08|| 2005-06-14 10:08|| Front Page Top

#31 I still don't like her and I don't think she would make a good president but she did tell Kerry that voting against appropriating the 89 billion dollars would be a grave mistake politically. She was right.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2005-06-14 10:10|| 2005-06-14 10:10|| Front Page Top

#32 Remember:

These are the same pollsters who had Kerry soundly winning the election, who said that Daschle was safe in his senate seat, and who skewed every poll by asking leading questions.

They wanted a result that would hurt Bush by screwing the war effort, so they went out and made one. Notice how the articles all lead off with some reference to Bush and try to make him a failure because of a poll result. This is all about the MSM's hatred of GWB, and their desire to get him even if it harms the nation.

Asking the real folk, those of us out here in fly-pver land, that would produce completely different answers - adn the MSM woulndt want that to get out, now would they?

As for what Bush needs to do: Bush needs to start using the Bully Pulpit, and do the things Reagan did: go over the heads of the press and the craven congresswimps, and talk directly to the American people. Engage the people, tell them of the need for hard work to get hard rewards, tell them of the successes our sacrifices in Iraq have brought, tell them of the things the MSM refuses to talk about, give them a living breathing example of it (i.e. a US servicemember who is well spoken and in Iraq to tell of the Iraqis who he has helped and how now help others).

As for us: keep spreading the good word. Read Cherenkoff. And the repeat one or two items in passing at work, especially to those co-workers who are more concerned with American Idol and the latest Michael Jackson news. "Hy Bob, I saw this where they are doing X in Iraq, and the people there are... WOnder why the news isnt covering it?"

Grass roots have to start someplace. Start with yourselves. Luckily for me, I dont have to worry about this in my office.

Posted by OldSpook 2005-06-14 10:33|| 2005-06-14 10:33|| Front Page Top

#33 Chin up Fred. We all get down at times. To paraphrase Bluto from Animal House: my recommendation is to drink heavily! Go to the O-club and Pappy will hook you up. As usual, we'll sign your chits. Cheers!

Posted by Spot">Spot 2005-06-14 10:48|| 2005-06-14 10:48|| Front Page Top

#34 "Hilly said that? She's not a chameleon, she's a changling!"

Nope, she's been consistent.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-06-14 10:49|| 2005-06-14 10:49|| Front Page Top

#35 "If, as you fear, a Democrat lands in the White House next election, there will indeed be a slackening of the anti-Islamist effort. As a result, there will be An Incident. And the President (D), will fry 'em up, in .com's oft-used phrase. Not the way we want to win the war, true, but definitive nonetheless. And the following denizen of the White House will be a Republican, chosen to clean up the mess, while the Democratic Party dissolves into guilt-induced hysteria (legitimate, for a change) and mutual recriminations, to be replaced by the Libertarians in the role of Loyal Opposition"

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-06-14 10:51|| 2005-06-14 10:51|| Front Page Top

#36 "If, as you fear, a Democrat lands in the White House next election, there will indeed be a slackening of the anti-Islamist effort"

an anti war dem wont win, as long the war is an issue. A prowar dem like Hilary might actually intensify the effort - maybe allocating resources to match the rhetoric.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-06-14 10:53|| 2005-06-14 10:53|| Front Page Top

#37 Thank you, liberalhawk -- I think. If only you were in charge of the Party, things would be different.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-06-14 10:57|| 2005-06-14 10:57|| Front Page Top

#38 LH: A prowar dem like Hilary might actually intensify the effort - maybe allocating resources to match the rhetoric.

Well, lookie here - another liberal looking to throw taxpayer money at a problem that isn't susceptible to monetary solutions. That's what I love about liberals - any problem in the world can be solved with more taxpayer dollars.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-06-14 11:01|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-06-14 11:01|| Front Page Top

#39 wrt the polls - look, people react to whats happening. January 30 was the elections, people felt good. Since early April bad stuff happened in Iraq. Seriously bad. Whatever Chrenkoff, Wretchard etc say. No matter how much folks want to blame the media. So folks react. When things show signs of progress again (which they WILL) people will buck up again.

Take a look at Winston Churchills words during WW2, or FDR's. They sure werent defeatists, but they also didnt go around saying Germany was in death throes, or that the axis was defeated, even AFTER decisive victories like Midway, El Alamein, Stalingrad. WSC - this is not the end, nor even the beginning of the end, but it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning. Thats where we are now. The Iraqi forces have probably at least 2 or 3 years go to be a quality force. And even if we peel off a chunk of the insurgency politically, it will remain strong until the Iraqi forces are strong enough to not need US help. So we're at the end of the beginning, maybe the midpoint(looking at Iraq alone, not the broader WOT). It would behoove the admin and those who support the war in Iraq to be upfront about that. Imagine, if, after El Alamein, WSC had announced that the Germans were now finished? What then would have been the public response to the Germans retaking Kharkov, to the troubles of the North Africa campaign, etc??? Level with people, and you'll do better in the long run then making airy fairy everythings going great.

Resolve is what is needed. Grim resolve.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-06-14 11:01|| 2005-06-14 11:01|| Front Page Top

#40 "That's what I love about liberals - any problem in the world can be solved with more taxpayer dollars"

more often than not, war can.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-06-14 11:03|| 2005-06-14 11:03|| Front Page Top

#41 I can understand Fred's frustration and level of anxiety over our committment to the WoT. All you have to do is read the NYT's each day as I do and watch the MSM networks from time to time and then spend some time around a very liberal but ex-patriotic community as I do in the summer. It is all there - anti-patriotism, pro-liberal values (gay marriage, abortion, free borders, etc.)anti-religion, anti-bush, anti-america. No one believes it will ever happen again and even if it does it will be Bushes fault which is all these lily-livered whiners want anyway - find fault - not fix problems. It can be pretty depressing. Then you crawl up to your little crow's nest in the attic and sit down to your computer and link up to Rantburg, Jihad Watch, LGF, Austin Bay, etc. and your life picks up a little optimism. So, Fred, cure thyself - read the burg thoughts and comments and understand that you are not alone, there is hope (unfortunately with that you usually die in shit)and that something big is going to happen to refocus all this energy where it belongs. I think that is what is bringing you (and me at times) down - that something big is going to happen and we haven't done enough to keep it from happening.

Posted by Jack is Back!">Jack is Back! 2005-06-14 11:05|| 2005-06-14 11:05|| Front Page Top

#42 You know, Liberalhawk, I'm having a hard time imagining FDR limiting war expenditures to 25% of government spending during WW2.

In fact I wouldn't be suprised to find out that total government expenditures were roughly the same then as now.

It's nice of y'all that y'all have found a new way to expand government power by pretending y'all are hawks.

But are _you_ willing to do something that might seriously crimp your power or political base to win the war?

I'm specifically thinking of the mainstream democratic party _stopping_ thinking of the domestic oil exploration industry as a Class Enemy. If y'all had done it four years ago, the country would be farther ahead than it is now.

The same goes for nuclear power.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2005-06-14 11:09|| http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]">[http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2005-06-14 11:09|| Front Page Top

#43 "Level with people, and you'll do better in the long run then making airy fairy everythings going great. "

points a few posts up

LH, thats pretty much what I said Bush needs to do. Notice what I put first?

Engage the people, tell them of the need for hard work to get hard rewards, tell them of the successes our sacrifices in Iraq have brought, tell them of the things the MSM refuses to talk about, give them a living breathing example of it

Sometime GWB frustrates the hell out of me because he waits too long to use the publicity powers of the Presidency. Clinton was popular because he knew how to do it. Reagan was a master of it, bringing a conservative revolution when both parts of Congress where held by Democrats. Even JFK knew how to use it to inspire and motivate the American people.

Bush has the MBA mentality, and is a solid manager and leader, in a corporate sense. And when he bothers to get out there, he does very well (Remember the bullhorn at the 9/11 site?)

Every good CEO knows how to sell - its part of the job. Somone needs to tell him "George, its time for the salesman part of your job as CEO of the USA". Plan an information campaign that puts this squarely in front of the American people: We are winning, the MSM is not telling you the whole story. Much like World War 2, there are battles along the way that we have won, and more for us to win - and like WW2 those battles have casualties. There have been sacrifices, while not on the scale of thousands dying in a few days, as in Iwo Jima or Bastogne, and there will be more to come. But they are well worth while, and these are the results.. Ask the soldiers. Go ask the Marines.

I think that Americans will respond to a challenge. At least the ones who matter will respond. The craven political asses in the MSM will respond predictably, and you can prepare for that by making sure that the campaign in the USA is just as dogged and sustained against the MSM's biased coverage as is the campaign in Iraq against the Baathists, Wahabbists and Salafists.

This is now a 2 front war, and one of the most important fronts is being ignored, or at the least, not being given sufficient resources and attention.

Posted by OldSpook 2005-06-14 11:18|| 2005-06-14 11:18|| Front Page Top

#44 "You know, Liberalhawk, I'm having a hard time imagining FDR limiting war expenditures to 25% of government spending during WW2.

Mainly because he so dramatically increased defense spending.

"In fact I wouldn't be suprised to find out that total government expenditures were roughly the same then as now."

Im sure thats incorrect. Total non-government spending was very small. Hardly any private consumer durables were sold during that time, few houses except in places were war industry booms created housing shortages, etc.

"It's nice of y'all that y'all have found a new way to expand government power by pretending y'all are hawks."

Its nice of you to judge my motivation without knowing me.

"But are _you_ willing to do something that might seriously crimp your power or political base to win the war?"

Just supporting the war in Iraq endangers the unity of my party. Dramatically. I think thats enough of a crimp.

"I'm specifically thinking of the mainstream democratic party _stopping_ thinking of the domestic oil exploration industry as a Class Enemy. If y'all had done it four years ago, the country would be farther ahead than it is now."

Not all dems are opposed to expanded exploration for oil, or to nuclear power plants. Just as not all republicans are opposed to measures to conserve energy.

But ultimately this isnt about oil. The jihadis are a danger to us even if we're self sufficient in oil, and they can be beaten even if we're not.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-06-14 11:27|| 2005-06-14 11:27|| Front Page Top

#45 BTW, if you check out leftie blogs, like Kevin Drum, theyre going on about how poor Howard Dean was done in by the MSM.

Id say Bush would be advised NOT to go on about the MSM - it reeks of blaming the messenger - and good news does get out - a lot of the positive stories posted here actually come from the MSM. And I wouldnt go on about victories -let generals do that, or better, Iraqis, or congressmen who go to Iraq. Focus EXPLICITLY on warning how long and hard a slog its going to be - within that you can subtly mention victories "despite the progress Iraqi forces have made, they have a long way to go ...." that sort of thing.

That might actually lower his ratings in the short run. But Cheney seems to be trying to buy short run ratings at the expense of long term gains.

Posted by liberalhawk 2005-06-14 11:31|| 2005-06-14 11:31|| Front Page Top

#46 Ya'all rememeber in 1990how the left convinced a tax increase was in order or the economy would shell out. Bush went for it, went against his promise, went against his base. Look what happened to Bush

This is the same thing. The left in GOP friendly states are pressuring GOP politicians to knuckle under knowing full well if they do the right stays home in 2006 and likely 2008.

If Bush and Frist want to stave off a potential distaster, it is time for Bush to take the lead and reiterate his support for the war and all we are doing, stating without equivication that nothing less than a military victory is a successful outcome in Iraq, and part and parcel of that is a free, capitalistic, democratic Iraq. Nothing less will do for me.

Bush ought to damn well state: We won in 2004. We control the agenda now.

Posted by badanov">badanov 2005-06-14 11:33|| http://www.freefirezone.org]">[http://www.freefirezone.org] 2005-06-14 11:33|| Front Page Top

#47 This ought to cheer Fred up:

Drinks in the O club are on the house until Fred cheers up.

Posted by badanov">badanov 2005-06-14 11:36|| http://www.freefirezone.org]">[http://www.freefirezone.org] 2005-06-14 11:36|| Front Page Top

#48 i agree it's a two front war and we've lost it badly on the home front.

I don't think we will wind up wearing turbans, but I do think we will lose NY or someother US city to a nuke or other type of WMD.

It would be great if we could put all of those who said we needn't worry into one town and let them go up in smoke, but like drunk drivers, their cavalier carlessness only ends up killing others.

If I was a general, I'd be fighting back in the culutre war. If the pen is mightier than a sword, then maybe it's about time that our generals need to acknowledge that and act accordingly.

Posted by 2b 2005-06-14 11:37|| 2005-06-14 11:37|| Front Page Top

#49 2b: General Myers has been trying to do that. Not as much as I'd like to see, but the man is trying.

Posted by badanov">badanov 2005-06-14 12:01|| http://www.freefirezone.org]">[http://www.freefirezone.org] 2005-06-14 12:01|| Front Page Top

#50 OK, so who has written a letter to the editor, or an op-ed piece? Some of you are very erudite (I just know a few 25-cent words). Certainly getting "our" point of view across to the NYT, LAT, or WaPo will not be easy, but there are other forums, no? And persistence, or numbers, might eventually pay off in the less-friendly media....

Posted by Bobby 2005-06-14 12:14|| 2005-06-14 12:14|| Front Page Top

#51 it's a good point bobby - but I've given up on NYT WAPO etc. I fight back by ignoring the papers, treating them as the litter that they are, and I believe that is the most effective way to hastent their demise.

And when I do refer to them, to my friends who are true believers, I simply note that I don't bother with papers, they are too slow, too doom and gloomy and inferior to the product I get online. Oh, sure, I miss the local section and all that, but quite frankly, NYT and WaPo and all the other old media are just not good enough for me, better quality online.

Shuts them up fast...heh, heh.

Posted by 2b 2005-06-14 13:28|| 2005-06-14 13:28|| Front Page Top

#52 and you know what hurts the WAPO and NYT et al the most when I do that? It's that it's TRUE!

Truth hurts, babee. The truth hurts. Rantburg is a better "paper" than the NYT when it comes to WOT. If USA today is McDonalds - WAPO and the NYT are Denny's, or at best, a stuffy steak house. Rantburg is that really that really good ethinic restaraunt down the street. When I want WOT, I come here. And rantburg has a pretty good politics and page 3 on their menu too.

Hey WaPo and NYT...you guys suck. Better stuff on line. Learn to deal with it.

Posted by 2b 2005-06-14 13:39|| 2005-06-14 13:39|| Front Page Top

#53 I think that is what is bringing you (and me at times) down - that something big is going to happen and we haven't done enough to keep it from happening.

What brings me down is the prospect that over the course of the next few years the LLL will have framed the thoughts of the general public sufficiently that we just lose our will and focus. They're trying hard to do just that right now and so far as I can tell, are succeeding.

Posted by too true 2005-06-14 14:50|| 2005-06-14 14:50|| Front Page Top

#54 I live in the UK and get the piss taken out of me by close friends for investigating Islam. Watching as the Palistinians celebrated 9 - 11 made me check out who these nutters were that rejoiced death in the name of their God. The more I read, I realised that we are going to face another world war in our generation. The new enemy can twist and turn the statements in their holy book to justify just about anything, look at Zarquawi saying muslims are fair game in his latest statement. Their ultimate goal must be to obtain Nukes to cause as much devastation as possible and it must be only a matter of time when the enemies of the US, like Pak and N Korea pass on material to terrorists. I am feeling very pessemistic about the future too. It winds me up to see our governments do nothing when people who want us dead burn our flags on our streets. Most of them live off the state go to their mosques and are plotting our doom. What is going to make us start deporting the enemy within? Another Madrid? Bali? New York? What are we waiting for???

Posted by Knockeyes Nilsworth 2005-06-14 17:04|| 2005-06-14 17:04|| Front Page Top

#55 "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the galleys, heard in the very hall of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitorâhe speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and wears their face and their garment, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nationâhe works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a cityâhe infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared" (Cicero)

Posted by True German Ally 2005-06-14 17:35|| 2005-06-14 17:35|| Front Page Top

#56 Its nice of you to judge my motivation without knowing me.

Well, I have been watching the majority leaders of your party for about twenty-five years now. I watched Hillary fall into lockstep behind Hanoi John once he became the party nominee.

"But are _you_ willing to do something that might seriously crimp your power or political base to win the war?"

Just supporting the war in Iraq endangers the unity of my party. Dramatically. I think thats enough of a crimp.

Not really. There's a double-standard involved in that a leftist politician can stand up and says he supports the war and the left-wing pacifist branch of your party will support him under the understanding that either he doesn't really mean it or he's just doing it to expand the party's power. John Kerry had both the votes of the pacifist wing and those who thought he'd be better because he could show how he was a much better hawk than Bush, after all he fought in Vietnam, and testified in Congress, and helped create our marvellous victory there where Vietnam's freedom was secured. (What, it wasn't? Oh, it wasn't really possible anyway, and it took a _smart_ hawk like Kerry to realize that. Never mind that Vietnam was the war where the rest of the world had it demonstrated that _terrorism worked_, because even when it lost the battles, it could gain political victories, and the Arabs today are trying to obtain the sort of victory John F'cking Kerry gave to North Vietnam. Which is why I keep bringing that point up.)

"I'm specifically thinking of the mainstream democratic party _stopping_ thinking of the domestic oil exploration industry as a Class Enemy. If y'all had done it four years ago, the country would be farther ahead than it is now."

Not all dems are opposed to expanded exploration for oil, or to nuclear power plants. Just as not all republicans are opposed to measures to conserve energy.

No, but the people who've controlled the national democratic party for the last thirty years have been opposed to both of those, despite their attempts at running candidates in LA and TX to say they're really not. ANWR didn't pass until the Republicans got something like 65% of the Senate, and ANWR is a small part of what we _need_ to be doing.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2005-06-14 17:47|| http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]">[http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2005-06-14 17:47|| Front Page Top

#57 Great quote TGA.

Posted by phil_b 2005-06-14 17:52|| 2005-06-14 17:52|| Front Page Top

#58 ANWR didn't pass until the Republicans got something like 65% of the Senate, ...

So why no talk about opening up the east,west and Flordia coasts to oil exploration?

It that too much a gilded cow for even Republicans to stomach?

Posted by 3dc 2005-06-14 18:56|| 2005-06-14 18:56|| Front Page Top

#59 What, and anger the retirees?

Posted by Pappy 2005-06-14 19:25|| 2005-06-14 19:25|| Front Page Top

#60 Pappy and 3dc there are thousands and thousands of minimum wage jobs in Florida that depend on an unobstructed view of the Gulf of Mexico. It's much to painful to contemplate the end of the motel economy, slot machines are looking good tho.

Posted by Shipman 2005-06-14 19:51|| 2005-06-14 19:51|| Front Page Top

#61 my answer?
"I'll pull out when I'm done, Dammit"

should be interesting to watch the interview responses...for kicks

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-06-14 20:28|| 2005-06-14 20:28|| Front Page Top

#62 What? A bunch of piss ant whimps. We go through this shit every six months. First it was Sey Hersh saying we were going to lose in Afganistan-- the day before we kicked the ficking AQs and Talibunnies out. So much for insightfulness from Sey.

Then we have the aftermath of a spendid Iraq invasion. Mom, is it over with yet? was the wail from lilly livers for several months post invasion.

Then there was the Iraqi election. Then everyone was back on the bandwagon -- for a couple of weeks. Now we have the cowards crying to set a timetable. Couriously, most of the same idiots that are crying about Gitmo (oh, those poor little terrorists).

We will leave when victory is assured, and not before. No grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory. God bless our troops.

Posted by Captain America 2005-06-14 23:51|| 2005-06-14 23:51|| Front Page Top

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