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2004-06-28 Afghanistan/South Asia
Pakistan interested to purchase JAS-Gripen plans
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Posted by Steve 2004-06-28 8:56:09 AM|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [11139 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 I read a long time ago that Swedish law prohibits selling arms to countries in global hotspots. True? Didn't Sweden sell a whole lot of Bofors artillery to India in the past 15 years?
Posted by Michael  2004-06-28 9:32:47 AM||   2004-06-28 9:32:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I read a long time ago that Swedish law prohibits selling arms to countries in global hotspots.

To quote Capt Jack Sparrow, "They're more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules."
Posted by Steve  2004-06-28 10:41:21 AM||   2004-06-28 10:41:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#3  The Gripens are far superior then Mig-27, Mig-29, Mig-31 and Mairage-2000, the front role Indian fighter plans

Rite.
BTW when was the last time a Swedish built aircraft had an air-to-air victory? The Winter War? That's a tought little piece of trivia.
Posted by Shipman 2004-06-28 10:55:25 AM||   2004-06-28 10:55:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 I don't think the planes intended to deliver nukes 3,000 km away need to worry about refueling. The flight plans are probably similar to the deep strike sorties from Cold War days. "After the last weapon release, climb to maximum altitude and try to reach the post-strike base." Don't know what the glide ratio is on a J39, better than a brick, less than a leaf.
Posted by RWV 2004-06-28 7:31:57 PM||   2004-06-28 7:31:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 The J39 Gripen (Griffin) has been in development a long time. Saab has rolled out one of these delta winged beauties at about 25 year intervals, starting with the J35 Drakken (Dragon) and the J37 Viggen (Thunderbolt). The problem is that the effectiveness of a fighter has more to do with the weapons carried and the systems on board than with the maneuverability of the airframe. Sweden can sell the Paks the plans and they can produce J39s by the thousands, but unless they get sophisticated modern electronics, avionics, and weapons systems to put on them, they will only be good for airshows. The good stuff still says Made in the USA. Not to say that we won't sell it to them.
Posted by RWV 2004-06-28 7:39:30 PM||   2004-06-28 7:39:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Don't know what the glide ratio is on a J39, better than a brick, less than a leaf.

It's not fly-by-wire??
Posted by rkb 2004-06-28 7:49:06 PM||   2004-06-28 7:49:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 RWV - electronic backdoors!
Posted by Frank G  2004-06-28 9:12:11 PM||   2004-06-28 9:12:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 These bloody Americans always seem jealous whenever they see any Europen country making progress in developing high performance military or civilian aircrafts.

As far as Pakitan is concerned its air force is known as one of the best in the world. They have always beated much larger Indian air force despite numercial disparity.

The performance of Gripen will be highlighted when it will be flown by Pakistani pilots.
Posted by Anonymous5488 2004-07-01 6:36:56 AM||   2004-07-01 6:36:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 and when you say PAF beats IAF, you meant all the defeat they had from IAF LOL. dream on,BTW you have to be a strong economy to win a war too.
Posted by Anonymous5502 2004-07-02 3:01:46 PM||   2004-07-02 3:01:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 ya see you in war with INDIA and you will live no more to post threads, HAHAHAHAHHA
Posted by Anonymous5502 2004-07-02 3:03:25 PM||   2004-07-02 3:03:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 the thing is that americans can never stand a competitor. they think that this world was made for them and they are the true masters. only they have the right to live and other humans excluding the jewish state of israel are just pieces of flesh whome they could bomb any time any where they want.
what i think it is a sense of guilt which makes them write such stupid coments like they have the best planes on jthis whole earth. wow according to latest report american F15 the most superior of its kind in service in USAF is inferior to SU 30.
Posted by Anonymous5543 2004-07-05 10:20:58 AM||   2004-07-05 10:20:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 There is no doubt that Europeons and Russians are now making much better fighters than US. The best example is SU-30MKI. It's a pitty that even pilots of Indian Air Force are now capable to challenge USAF!
Posted by Anonymous5488 2004-07-06 8:00:21 AM||   2004-07-06 8:00:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 The fact is fact. Whether you likt it or not. PAF performed absolutely wounderful in 1965 war. The whole world acknowledged its performance when it outclassed three times larger Indian Air Force.

In 1971 it performed even better especially if you compare the performance of a "crippled" Pakistani Air Force in West Pakistan. In 1971 half of its manpower was composed of Bengali personnels. We were unfortunate that there was a great mistrust between us. Almost all of the Bengali pilots were gronded. These circumsatance were worst for PAF.

It severely affected the PAF. But the whole world saw the performance of PAF how it fought IAF which was a well equiped, fully supported by USSR in the form of weapons, equipments and personnels during 1971 war.

These days PAF is in a poor shape. On paper IAF is far superior in terms of weapons, equipment and to some extent training as well.

Luckily, we had nuclear weapons this time. Mr. Vajpai brought whole army and airforce on the border of Pakistan but could not dare cross it.

If there had been a conventional war between India and Pakistan, IAF would have had a definite edge despite superior pilots skills of Pakistan Air Force.

The equipment they have now is second to none. Although BVR missiles are very potent weapons these days, it could have created havoc for PAF pilots in case of war. PAF's preferred arean to fight war with IAF is close in dog fight where they excell IAF to a great extent. Whereas IAF's BVR missiles have posed a real challenge for PAF.

If we are able to get gripens, it will restore the current imbalance between PAF and IAF. It will give confidence to Pakistan and chances of using nuclear weapons will grow minimal.

It is very fortunate that India and Pakistan are seriously engaged in addressing the issue of Kashmir. If they are able to resolve this problem, there will be no need to spend heavily on defence equipments.

Posted by Anonymous5488 2004-07-06 8:49:48 AM||   2004-07-06 8:49:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 Pakistan's economy in fiscal 2003-4 demonstrated strong resilience in the face of a continuing global economic downturn. The global recession was fueled by hikes in oil prices in the wake of the Iraq war, an outbreak of SARS in the Asia-Pacific region, and the continuing sluggish performance of US markets. Despite these challenges, Pakistan managed to register a 5.1% GDP growth rate--the highest in the South Asia region and fifth highest in Asia overall--and attained significant macroeconomic stability.

The manufacturing and agricultural sectors emerged as the main engines of growth, experiencing 7.7% and 5.8% growth rates respectively over the year. Manufacturing growth was led by a sharp increase in automobile production, while the best agricultural performers were rice and wheat. In addition, a number of trends in the macroeconomy revealed positive signs of Pakistan's economic performance.

Foreign exchange reserves touched $10.5 billion; four billion dollars were added to the reserves over the last one year. They are now sufficient to finance approximately 11 months worth of imports. In addition, Pakistan secured over $800 million of foreign direct investment over the fiscal year and achieved significant debt reduction at 6.2% of total external debt.

The Karachi Stock Exchange experienced a record year, reaching an all-time high of 3,117 points, fininshing off with a 76% total increase as well as a sharp 68% growth in market capitalization. In recognition of its exceptional performance, a number of foreign sources ranked the KSE as the best-performing bourse in the world.

Perhaps most significantly in terms of broad impact, inflation rates were controlled and stabilized at 3.3%, offering susbtantial relief to consumers. Overseas Pakistanis, acting on these positive signals and taking advantage of improved banking conditions, remitted $3.3 billion over the year.

Per capita income increased by 17.4% over the fiscal year. It constitutes a significant step towards achieving a higher standard of living.

The performance of public companies and poverty reduction strategies are areas of continuing concern.

The Government understands that it is important to maintain a continuity of policy in order to sustain the economic recovery and attract greater investment in order to sustain high growth rates. It would be a necessary component of a long-term development strategy.

Posted by Anonymous5488 2004-07-06 9:16:32 AM||   2004-07-06 9:16:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 you should read histroy more carefully ,yes paf did perform well in 1965 against an numerically superior iaf but the iaf was operating obselete aircraft like vampire,mystere.Inspite of that the iaf did well in its bombing missions and close air support for the indian army.In 1971
bengali fighter pilots were placed in east pakistan not west,inspite of that pakistan lost heavily in the air war in the west.Over these years pakistan had enjoyed qualitative advantage in weapons ,even then they had never had victory over india,a fact as india still holds the much disputed state of kashmir.Iaf pilots proved their mettle in the kargil war .So all this talk about paf being superior is just a myth>first lesson for winning a war is "never underestimate your enemy".Pakistan had already paid a price for doing that
Posted by Anonymous5671 2004-07-11 12:25:56 AM||   2004-07-11 12:25:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 We never underestimated Indian Air Force. Indian Air Force had and still has good and experienced pilots. The reason why we consider Pakistan Air Force Superior is the degree of difficulty we have always faced in defending skies of Pakistan vis-a-vis its counterpart, the IAF. The difficulty has always been in terms of number, geographical limitations, equipment etc.

In 1965 one cannot understand the reason of poor performance of IAF which had at least one squadron of Mig-21, the cutting edge technology of that time. To understand why IAF could not perform well to justify its numerical and technological strength, one need to examine what led to the setback to IAF in 1965.

The newer and far superior Hunters were the backbone of IAF not vampires or mysteres. IAF avoids sending these air crafts on mission after suffering disaster by the hands of squadron leader Rafiqui and flight lieutenant Younis. Four vampies were shot down over Kashimer when they were engaged in providing close air support to Indian Army. It was PAF aggressive preemptive strike that led to the destruction of 80% of MIG-21 fleet at Pathankot air base and downing of five hunters by Squadron leader Alam on September 7, 1965. Although PAF preemptive strike could not achieve 100% results in terms of wiping out IAF but it was at least able to gain psychological superiority over Indian Air Force. This shock and awe paralyzed IAF high command and despite having lethal weapons and experienced pilots, they could not perform the way they should have.

Regarding 1971 war, PAF was in a very bad shape. 50% capable Bengali air and ground crew was grounded in both the wings of Pakistan. The human resource is the key asset of PAF. It was severely affected area of PAF in 1971. If our Bengali brothers were with us, the situation of air or land war of 1971 would have been much more disastrous for IAF and IA. I don’t want to go into the detail of what happened in 1971, as we are sorry for our political failure in dealing with our Bengali brothers and we paid the price in the form of humiliating surrender in East Pakistan.

The best account of the performance of PAF in 1971 war can be read in the autobiography of General Chuck Yeager, the greatest of the great pilots of the world who was in Pakistan in 1971 as a defense attaché from USA. It’s worth reading and his admiration of PAF is matter of pride for PAF pilots.

If our Indian friends are happy with the performance of IAF in the Kargil war, than it’s a matter of satisfaction for us that they are happy to win a war where PAF never came to challenge them due to Pakistan political stand on the status of Kargil. There came only one chance when IAF pilots came in too much inside the border of Azad Kashmir. That was where PAF pilots waiting for them because we wanted their wreckage well inside our borders. This happened during Kargil war when for IAF Mig-21s entered in Pakistani Air Space deep enough to be shot down by PAF. The two F-16s on CAP were vectored to challenge them for the combat. As soon as F-16 reached the zone, these four Mig-21s ran away in such cowardly manner that this sort of disengagement is considered as undignified retreat in combat situations. What their mission or purpose of intruding deep inside Pakistan could be well understood. They actually wanted to check the combat readiness of PAF, which we believe they understood very well at that occasion.

We believe that IAF is a good air force, having much more sophisticated equipment as compare to PAF but still their worst fear is PAF.








Posted by Anonymous5488 2004-07-12 7:00:28 AM||   2004-07-12 7:00:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 don't listen to thesse indians, they are victums of their own propoganda policies !!!!!
making a movie ,raising a sologan to win the election is something else, and facing the facts in form of history is totally different.
Posted by Pakistani cheetha 2004-07-17 7:04:05 AM||   2004-07-17 7:04:05 AM|| Front Page Top

13:27 ann marcol
01:38 mission-project@luxmail.com
07:04 Pakistani cheetha
08:17 Howard UK
08:03 abdulazizmarri
07:00 Anonymous5488
00:25 Anonymous5671
09:16 Anonymous5488
08:49 Anonymous5488
08:00 Anonymous5488
10:20 Anonymous5543
03:50 HH
15:03 Anonymous5502
15:01 Anonymous5502
06:36 Anonymous5488
11:48 Jen
11:43 Frank G
11:26 Aris Katsaris
11:25 tu3031
11:25 Aris Katsaris
11:17 Aris Katsaris
11:10 docob
11:07 Orson Buggy
10:59 Aris Katsaris
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