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2006-12-04 Science & Technology

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Posted by Anonymoose 2006-12-04 08:18|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [11135 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I'll not drive in Arizona, then.

Posted by trailing wife 2006-12-04 09:05|| 2006-12-04 09:05|| Front Page Top

#2 How 'bout a device that detects drivers conversing on a cell phone while they drive 15 mph under the speed limit?

Posted by mrp 2006-12-04 10:08|| 2006-12-04 10:08|| Front Page Top

#3 The debate is already on in Oregon about these devices and the so-called enforcement behind them. Anybody with any common sense at all can imagine how impossible it is to maintain 160 feet between cars during even a 'mild' rush hour. I can't help but chuckle at the local debate when these are introduced to lefty California locales...

Posted by Ike 2006-12-04 10:09|| 2006-12-04 10:09|| Front Page Top

#4 ...They do that here in SC and ain't nobody gonna be driving...

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2006-12-04 10:48|| 2006-12-04 10:48|| Front Page Top

#5 More accidents are caused by tailgating than most people realize. It is dangerous, illegal and irresponsible. I drove professionally (Trucker) for about a year in the 02/03 timeframe. I witnessed more accidents caused by idiots tailgating than I care to think of. About half of them involved serious injuries or fatalities.

I would like to see the fine tripled for first offences and vehicle impounding (45 days) for subsequent offences. Remember, most accidents usually aren't...accidents.

Posted by Mick Dundee 2006-12-04 10:58|| 2006-12-04 10:58|| Front Page Top

#6 Okay Mick, I'm driving down the highway at 65 with a 2 second cushion...someone moves into the space, I slow down to reopen the cushion, someone else moves into the space....the guy behind me closes up cause I keep slowing down.....Why is this a safe alternative?

True tailgating is very dangerous, but, initiating a situation where people are weaving in and out is not a good solution.

For real life examples commute up and down I84 in CT.

Posted by AlanC">AlanC 2006-12-04 11:06|| 2006-12-04 11:06|| Front Page Top

#7 "I've seen people at 0.04 seconds. That is less than half a second," he said.

Cue John Kerry and how those "dumb" policemen are stuck in a dead-end job because of Bush. Seriously, why'd they have to put this quote in this article, except to make this policeman appear dumb?

And, Ike nails it. At 60mph, 2 seconds equals 176 feet distance. Not that I'm in favor of those who follow you like a NASCAR driver, but 180' of distance between the two only asks you to get cut off in urban driving areas. Plus, this probably just a ploy to make money for the cities anyways.

Posted by BA 2006-12-04 11:10|| 2006-12-04 11:10|| Front Page Top

#8 Someday we'll all look back on this, laugh congenially, and plow into a parked car.

Posted by .com 2006-12-04 11:18|| 2006-12-04 11:18|| Front Page Top

#9 A 2 second cushion? Good freakin' luck with that on the Southeast Expressway at 5:30 PM...

Posted by Raj 2006-12-04 11:35|| 2006-12-04 11:35|| Front Page Top

#10 176 feet? If you leave more than 40 feet in front of you on Boston's Route 128, it will be filled in approximately 10 seconds.

You would cut the capacity of roads like 128 in half. Pulling people over in rush hour should help even more.

Posted by KBK 2006-12-04 11:59|| 2006-12-04 11:59|| Front Page Top

#11 I hope it doesn't catch on here, slamming on my brakes then getting rear-ended is one of my most consistent forms of revenue.

Posted by Jeagum Ulolush6778 2006-12-04 12:42|| 2006-12-04 12:42|| Front Page Top

#12 Leaving reasonable separations on California freeways only results in three cars diving into the gap from lanes on either side of you. If semis leave a safety margin, six or eight cars jump in. So, this tactic is out in Kaleeforneeah. But, they have become greatly enamored of red light cameras. And fines are generally $300-400 each infraction. Cities love it. Really pumps the treasury.

Posted by SpecOp35 2006-12-04 12:52|| 2006-12-04 12:52|| Front Page Top

#13 Agreed, SpecOp. I'd be willing to venture that's the standard SOP of drivers in any major metro area. I know it is here in Atlanta. Everyone thinks they're a NASCAR driver. You leave even 2 car lengths and, whammo, someone's jumping in in front of you.

Posted by BA 2006-12-04 13:02|| 2006-12-04 13:02|| Front Page Top

#14 Arizona cities are on the cutting edge of using motorist citations to raise revenues

Hey, just like in France! See? There IS a common ground, culture-wise!

Posted by anonymous5089 2006-12-04 13:08|| 2006-12-04 13:08|| Front Page Top

#15 I'm on Mick's side on this one. I stopped with no problem when I crested an overpass to find a sea of brake lights from an accident ahead. The semi adjacent/behind me did not. I snuggled over to the divider as his jack-knifed rig slid past me and peeled off my front right quarter. I got out and kissed the ground.
I'll leave my space in front of me even if people keep filling it; just because they want to take risks is no reason for me to.
And it is not strictly true that riding with a smaller gap increases the capacity of the road - it is only true if 1) there are no additional accidents resulting, and 2) it does not change the flow regime (effectively, from 'laminar' to 'turbulent' if you are dealing with fluids, which is a good approximation to traffic.) At a certain traffic density the lack of gaps to accomodate normal and necessary lane changes and slight speed changes results in conversion to 'stop and go' flow, which is far less efficient than even fairly slow but smooth flow.

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2006-12-04 13:09|| 2006-12-04 13:09|| Front Page Top

#16 My first thought on reading the headline was 'How will radar affect LSU-Florida (and other SEC) football game pre-game festivities?

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2006-12-04 13:10|| 2006-12-04 13:10|| Front Page Top

#17 If my last venture into New Jersey is any indication, there won't be many drivers left on the road there, either.

I-5/10/15 (and derivatives thereof) in SoCal might be somewhat devoid, also.

Posted by Mullah Richard 2006-12-04 14:39|| 2006-12-04 14:39|| Front Page Top

#18 "Too close for missiles, switching to guns..."

Posted by mojo">mojo 2006-12-04 14:44|| 2006-12-04 14:44|| Front Page Top

#19 I spent a total of ten years in Germany between 1971 and 1990. If you ever left a "2-second gap" between you and the next vehicle, you'd be run over, literally. My reaction time isn't what it was then, but it's still pretty good. I haven't had a serious accident (except when I was hit by someone else) in 35 years. I do like to keep at least 35-40 feet between me and the next vehicle, when I can. Sometimes that's just not possible.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2006-12-04 16:07|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2006-12-04 16:07|| Front Page Top

#20 I once drove eastbound on route 80 during New Jersey rush hour for about 9 years. A space of about 23 feet in the left lane is an open invitation for any vehicle in the middle lane to take it without the courtesy of a signal. If you do allow repeated middle laners to take your front, the guy behind you pulls a gun.
There is just not enough road in many crowded roadways at rush hours to allow a buffer. Drivers coming from such competative driving into more relaxed country driving, will continue to grab every opening like they can't afford a second of delay.
My opinion is that the police should stick to crime and stay the fuck out of drivers wallets.

Posted by wxjames 2006-12-04 17:22|| 2006-12-04 17:22|| Front Page Top

#21 nobody mentions the assholes in the fast lane, going at or underthe "speed limit" instead of pulling over to the right lane

for detection - I use this

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-12-04 17:23|| 2006-12-04 17:23|| Front Page Top

#22 Another thing. Here we are at the brink of total war against Islam in about one third of the world, and to illustrate just how pie-in-the-sky off target our leadership is, they give a shit about tailgating.
Lunacy, cradle to grave, full court press lunacy.

Posted by wxjames 2006-12-04 17:26|| 2006-12-04 17:26|| Front Page Top

#23 What do you use for active counter measures Frank? I can't afford quality passive gear, but I found this in Ft. Walton Beach.

I'm not certain exactly what it does, but connected to me '80s era CB antenna it seems to lower my electric bill and local fertility.

Posted by Shipman 2006-12-04 18:03|| 2006-12-04 18:03|| Front Page Top

#24 Tailgating is not only a cause of accidents, it is also a factor in many road-rage incidents.

Accidents and road rage are only the (admittedly mayhem-laden) beginning. There is a host of other extremely detrimental societal impacts (literally) that can be directly attributed to tailgating.

More accidents are caused by tailgating than most people realize. It is dangerous, illegal and irresponsible. I drove professionally (Trucker) for about a year in the 02/03 timeframe. I witnessed more accidents caused by idiots tailgating than I care to think of. About half of them involved serious injuries or fatalities.

This is closer to the point.

I'll leave my space in front of me even if people keep filling it; just because they want to take risks is no reason for me to.

And it is not strictly true that riding with a smaller gap increases the capacity of the road - it is only true if 1) there are no additional accidents resulting, and 2) it does not change the flow regime (effectively, from 'laminar' to 'turbulent' if you are dealing with fluids, which is a good approximation to traffic.) At a certain traffic density the lack of gaps to accomodate normal and necessary lane changes and slight speed changes results in conversion to 'stop and go' flow, which is far less efficient than even fairly slow but smooth flow.

Glenmore nails a huge portion of the problem with his superb analogy to fluid dynamics.

First, let's review ALL of the negative ramifications caused by tailgating:

1.) Vastly increased loss of life. Insufficient following distance is one of the leading causes of automobile accidents. DUI and excessive speed are some of the only other factors that figure more prominently.

2.) Greater damage caused per accident. Not just greater loss of life but also greater destruction of property. This has financial impact upon all of us in the form of increased insurance premiums to cover claims generated by uninsured drivers.

3.) Escalated vehicle count at accident scenes. Insufficient following distance is the prime contributor to much larger and destructive chain reaction or "boxcar" collisions. These massive accidents can result in geometrically increased loss of life and also result in huge traffic delays, another deleterious byprodut with immense ramifications.

4.) Injury and accidents due to road rage. While impatient tailgaters probably constitute a large number of those drivers that experience road rage, people who are needlessly endangered by those who follow too closely often can experience similar feelings of anger.

Retaliation frequently comes in the form of a lead car decreasing its speed in order to discourage the tailgating driver from endangering all parties. This can escalate into both violence, collisions and general congestion. Drivers who slow down are not to be blamed for the wrongs of those who deliberately endanger the lives of innocent people.

Furthermore, road rage tends to increase blood pressure, release adrenaline (and norepinepherine, a very damaging compound) and thereby cause a host of other related medical problems and costs while general decreasing the quality of life.

5.) Longer periods of heavier commute congestion. Tailgaters are among the very worst contributors to commuter traffic delays. They are more likely to obstruct or prevent smooth lane changes. The vast majority of needless changes in freeway speed occur at merges and interchanges. Tailgating drivers are frequently found in all lanes of traffic due to their impatience with cars in front of them. Just as often, they will not allow other vehicles to make necessary lane changes when merging onto or off of the freeway. This is a direct cause of traffic jams.

A quick examination will find that traffic tends to lose five to ten miles per hour in speed at or near merges and interchanges. Unavailable space to change lanes is a major cause of this.

A German computer study found that even just a few drivers making slight changes in speed can cause phase changes in traffic flow. The fluid dynamic model is exceptionally appropriate in demonstrating this.

" ...most accidents on freeways have to do with changes in speed.

... on a packed highway, their random speed changes can accumulate and ripple back to slow the speeds of vehicles miles behind."

6.) Heavily magnified environmental impact. Even well-tuned internal combustion engines tend to be least efficient at idling speeds. The congestion caused by tailgaters inhibiting smooth traffic flow plus the accidents these individuals more frequently cause both contribute to immense increases in vehicle emissions. The end result is many extra tons of pollutants being spewn into the atmosphere.

Fluctuating vehicle speeds have another disastrous side effect. Start and stop traffic represents one of the single worst driving conditions in terms of mechanical wear upon a vehicle. Needless commute congestion caused by tailgaters costs the American driving public untold billions in avoidable car repairs.

Another byproduct of this is depletion of resources required to replace all of these prematurely worn out spare parts.

Another form of extremely damaging environmental pollution comes from excessive tire wear. The rubber vulcanization process relies upon heavy metals, cadmium amongst them. This heavy metal is released in greater quantities during the additional friction of start and stop driving. Additionally, the rubber granules are a leading contributor to loss of traction during wet driving conditions. They act as micro-ball bearings that interfere with tire grip.

Traffic at reduced speeds also tends to deposit more oil on the roadway from engine and driveline lubricant leakage. This combines with the rubber granules to create another layer of traffic accidents, all of which can be traced back to congestion cuased by tailgating drivers.

Smog and air pollution have another costly consequence as well.

7.) Increased incidence of pollution-related pulmonary disease. Emphysema, asthma, allergies and a host of other serious and lesser medical conditions are all caused or exacerbated by atmospheric pollution. During the worst era of Los Angels' air pollution, the exposure caused by living near certain heavily congested roadways equated to smoking a pack of cigarettes per day.

Add in the health care costs and increase medical insurance premiums and tailgating begins to take a massive toll upon the public's welfare.

8.) Decreased workplace productivity. Commute related delays in arrival cost corporate America untold billions of dollars per year. It is not just individuals that undergo less productive labor. Entire meetings can be delayed due to the absence of a single person. The ripple effect of tardiness is incalculable.

This assessment ignores another dramatic impact upon corporate productivity. Traffic congestion also delays the delivery of materials. Ordering well ahead of time to circumvent delivery delays represents needlessly held inventory and decreased holding capacity for other goods.

9.) Accelerated wear to roadway infrastructure. Extended residency of vehicles on loadbearing road surfaces increases fatigue, cracking of tarmac and a host of other unnecessary strain related wear, including potholes which cause costly damage and wear to vehicle tires and suspension. This in turn exacerbates needless repairs, their cost plus the resource drain and pollution that accompany such destructive conditions.

10.) Over consumption of petroleum products. If you are concerned about America's over-dependence upon imported Middle Eastern oil, be sure to give tailgaters their share of the blame. Slow traffic and idling engines consume massively increased amounts of both gasoline and lubricants.

This in turn not only increases our dependence upon terrorism sponsoring countries for their oil but also drives up the cost of gasoline by needlessly taxing refinery capactiy. The additional expenditure for purchasing wasted gasoline also represents a very negative impact upon the quality of life for those who drive vehicles.

11.) Diversion of tax revenues for unnecessary remediation. Huge sums of tax dollars are directed towards the remediation of air pollution, fouling of the waterways by leaked or spilled petroleum from vehicles and accidents.

The cost of having tow-trucks stationed at the ready to facilitate rapid removal of wrecks and rendering motorist assistance during commute hours must be calculated as well. Factor in the cost of diamond lanes, on-ramp timing lights and all the enforecement of HOV (High Occupancy Vehicles) lane usage and another tremendous tax burden becomes apparent.

Much of the above pales in comparison to a final and most insidious sort of damage being done to our society from the commute delays caused by tailgating related traffic.

12.) Increased divore rates. You read correctly. Imagine the impact upon homes where the arrival each workday evening of one or both spouses is impacted by extended commute times. Ignore the additional cost of prolonged childcare while parents wend their way home but do not underestimate the damage being done by the lessening of quality time spent by parents with their children or even just their spouses. Marriages and families depend upon the presence of both partners. Even a stay-at-home mother or father still needs the moral support and simple time off of having their partner there to assist them.

Total up all of the lost hours of bread winners coming home late from work because they were tardy that morning or simply were delayed in traffic. All of this compounds what is already a precarious situation for many marriages and families. Neglected children are much more likely to engage in anti-social behavior or juvenile delinquency.

All of the societal impacts have caused a dramatic decrease in the quality of urban American life. I defy you to argue how tailgating drivers are not to blame for a huge percentage of the above listed problems.

Properly calculated, tailgating probably consitutes ten times the damage to our world that drunk driving causes. Due to its supposedly more benign profile (I give you the dismissive replies in this thread as evidence), tailgating is disregarded despite mountains of evidence indicating just how damaging it is to everyday life.

I support any and all law enforcement attempts to put a halt to this obnoxious and dangerous practice. Practicing a safe following distance adds less than one minute to your arrival time and performs a host of beneficial services to the world around you. Think about it.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-12-04 18:53|| 2006-12-04 18:53|| Front Page Top

#25 Please, please, please.....bring it to Central Florida! (And some decent Mexican food, too!)

Posted by Swamp Blondie 2006-12-04 19:12|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com]">[ http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com] 2006-12-04 19:12|| Front Page Top

#26 I was a big advocate of staking out the 101 around Sherman Oaks in CA, and shooting the first person who hit their brakes before 0600.

Posted by Phineter Thraviger 2006-12-04 19:13|| 2006-12-04 19:13|| Front Page Top

#27 There's a lot of difference between city and country driving.

Posted by gromgoru 2006-12-04 19:21|| 2006-12-04 19:21|| Front Page Top

#28 Zenster.
I'm a Master Mechanic, your list of reasons in #23 is good for the first five reasons.

The list from #6 om down is pure bullshit.

Posted by Redneck Jim 2006-12-04 19:30|| 2006-12-04 19:30|| Front Page Top

#29 The list from #6 om down is pure bullshit.

Too bad they're true. I'm not saying that tailgating is the sole cause of all the items I've listed. Nonetheless, it can be attributed as a causal factor in all of them.

I'll freely admit, there are situations where I tailgate. However, in a majority of roadway circumstances, I DON'T. I've timed myself and see little to no difference in arrival time between good driving practices and bad ones.

I can show you an insurance form of mine that says "ultra-safe driver" as evidence.

Redneck Jim, if, as you've already posted, you accept premise number five then all the remaining points logically devolve from it. I'd be more than happy to see you or anyone else disprove it. Do you maintain that an idling engine is not in one of its most fuel inefficient states? Are you willing to assert that stop and go driving is not one of the most harmful common operating modes for an automotive vehicle? Are you going to argue that subjecting roadbed structures to needlessly extended periods of loadbearing activity doesn't prematurely weaken them? Do you dispute the link between reduced gas mileage experienced during commute congestion and increased gasoline consumption?

The commute congestion caused by tailgating acts as a force multiplier upon all of the other impacting factors resulting from traffic jams.

I was a big advocate of staking out the 101 around Sherman Oaks in CA, and shooting the first person who hit their brakes before 0600.

You're on the money, Phineter Thraviger. For some reason, most motorists are entirely unable to differentiate between braking and TAKING THEIR FOOT OFF OF THE ACCELERATOR. More than likely, the main cause is because, they're following too close!

Gently decelerating WITHOUT telegraphing your speed decrease to the following driver is one of the best ways to help prevent traffic jams. As I mentioned, due to most people following too closely, few people can actually practice this excellent driving habit.

Watching the roadbed from a friend's picture window, I have watched a single flurry of brakelights completely stall a six lane freeway.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-12-04 20:21|| 2006-12-04 20:21|| Front Page Top

#30 I have quite the commute driving HWY 285 into Denver from the mountains with the changing weather conditions and elevation. I just plan on a few hours time to get there.
I would like to see that folks have decent tread on their tires, walking into the local Safeway and seeing some of the sad tires on the cars in the parking lot scare the hell out of me. Also folks that feel a 4 wheel drive is good on ice is nuts, give me good studded snow tires and front wheel drive anytime. These 4 wheelers slide all over the road, it's interesting trying to avoid them and keep distance from everyone.
While tailgating isn't right, the righteous folks driving slow in the passing lane, are probably the ones causing alot of the drivers to do so.
and yes, I do have a radar detector, my bad.

Posted by Jan 2006-12-04 20:25|| 2006-12-04 20:25|| Front Page Top

#31 ...I'm driving down the highway at 65 with a 2 second cushion...someone moves into the space, I slow down to reopen the cushion, someone else moves into the space... Ya've been driving in Germany haven'tcha, Alan?

Posted by GK 2006-12-04 20:45|| 2006-12-04 20:45|| Front Page Top

#32 Ticketing less than a two second margin is just taxation. #10 has it exactly right, you can never keep that kind of space in any kind of traffic.

Unless there is a collision ahead, what is important is can your car stop faster than the one ahead but not much faster than the one behind. If so, any interval more than your reaction time (less than a quarter of a second) is fine. Otherwise you need more; so, get as much as you can given the traffic around you.

If there is a collision ahead on the highway, get out of the trafficked lanes immediately and safely get ahead of the mess, before even thinking about anything else.

If that's too complicated for you, then follow a very large truck with as much safety margin as the traffic will allow without cutting in. Its momentum will keep you safe from anything that gets in its, and therefore your, way.

Posted by rammer">rammer 2006-12-04 22:09|| www.blogoram.com]">[www.blogoram.com] 2006-12-04 22:09|| Front Page Top

#33 I need to clarify.

However many seconds behind another car often is meaningless due to traffic conditions. Look at the speed laws. Going ten miles an hour over the speed limit is permissible if traffic conditions merit it.

What I want to see is the highway patrol nailing EVERY SINGLE BASTARD who thinks it's hunky dory to hang 24" off of your bumper at 60 MPH. Even more important is citing violations of disproportionate vehicle weight following distance. By this I mean that an SUV trying to crawl up the tailpipe of a sub-compact should be nailed just like a sub-compact that hangs off the rear mudflap of a Harley. Both are intentionally endangering another driver's life for no reason at all.

Such morons would provide an endless supply of steady revenue for even the most depleted of municipal coffers. Cities that establish impossible to comply with traffic laws (as in shortening yellow lights) should be boycotted by all tourism and local business wherever possible.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-12-04 22:41|| 2006-12-04 22:41|| Front Page Top

#34 If that's too complicated for you, then follow a very large truck with as much safety margin as the traffic will allow without cutting in. Its momentum will keep you safe from anything that gets in its, and therefore your, way.

This is exceptionally good advice. Truckers (per my own observations about maintaining vehicle momentum) absolutely depend upon keeping their rigs rolling at whatever speed. The sad part is watching idiots jam the "no zone" behind big rigs. Truckers most definitely DO NOT deserve that.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-12-04 22:48|| 2006-12-04 22:48|| Front Page Top

#35 (And some decent Mexican food, too!)

Would you settle for some recipes? Thems I got.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-12-04 22:52|| 2006-12-04 22:52|| Front Page Top

23:54 .com
23:48 Zenster
23:40 Zenster
23:30 Anonymoose
23:12 ed
23:07 ex-lib
23:06 KBK
23:03 ed
23:02 .com
22:57 Zenster
22:56 trailing wife
22:55 49 Pan
22:52 Zenster
22:50 ex-lib
22:48 Zenster
22:46 ex-lib
22:45 .com
22:44 ed
22:43 Laurence of the Rats
22:42 BA
22:41 Zenster
22:39 ed
22:38 .com
22:33 gromgoru
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