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2025-12-02 Caribbean-Latin America

Spec OPS chief [JSOC] ordered deadly Caribbean strike ‘in self-defense' with Hegseth's sign-off, White House says

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Posted by Skidmark 2025-12-02 00:00|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [1798 views ] Top
File under: Narcos

1 I propose the narcos recruit journalists to do realtime reporting on the trip.

Posted by Skidmark 2025-12-02 07:38|| 2025-12-02 07:38|| Front Page Top

2 I asked my son, who served as a Bundeswehr pilot in Afghanistan, what he thought about this.

He said, if the situation was as described, he would have adamantly refused the order to carry out the second strike on the survivors clinging on to dear life.

He reminded me of the Peleus Trial, which is mandatory reading at the Hochschule der Bundeswehr.

Captain Heinz Eck, along with other crew members, were found guilty of "committing a war crime in the Atlantic Ocean on the night of 13/14th March, 1944, when Captain and members of the crew of Unterseeboat 852 which had sunk the steamship “Peleus” in violation of the laws and usages of war were concerned in the killing of members of the crew of the said steamship, Allied nationals, by firing and throwing grenades at them.”

Eck, he said, had a better excuse for his action (fearing discovery by British planes) than the Admiral who ordered the "second tap". "Self defense" REALLY doesn't fly here.

It seems like Hegseth is trying to avoid responsibility by putting all the blame (in disguise of a "defense") on the Admiral.

If what was reported is true, Hegseth and the Admiral should resign and face the consequences.

Posted by European Conservative 2025-12-02 08:02|| 2025-12-02 08:02|| Front Page Top

3 Hat tip to the JSOC boys. If they're on a dope boat, they're on the wrong team.

Posted by Besoeker 2025-12-02 08:08|| 2025-12-02 08:08|| Front Page Top

4 Apparently, the Admiral [head of U.S. Special Operations Command] was well compensated.

Posted by Skidmark 2025-12-02 08:09|| 2025-12-02 08:09|| Front Page Top

5 German pilots flew a lot of helo missions for UNSCOM prior to the Gulf War. Damn good pilots.

Posted by Besoeker 2025-12-02 08:11|| 2025-12-02 08:11|| Front Page Top

6 "Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius"

Posted by Skidmark 2025-12-02 08:13|| 2025-12-02 08:13|| Front Page Top

7 If what was reported is true

According to the New York Times, as presented by Instapundit, it is not.

More importantly, it seems to me, all of the international law talk being slung so promiscuously applies only to legitimate combatants, not criminals, saboteurs, or spies engaged in their illicit occupation, which includes narco-terrorists running illegal drugs for their cartel.

Finally, this comment in that thread from Donald Sensing, retired US Army officer and retired journalist. I highly recommend reading the op-ed he links on the subject, which comes at it from a different angle.

Donald Sensing
32 minutes ago
Dr. Brian Cox is former Army judge advocate, now a Cornell law professor, and one of the most respected Law of Armed Conflict (LOAC) analysts in the field. His assessment is that not only is "the anonymous JAG letter unconvincing, it’s built on fundamental misstatements of the law, misreadings of the facts, and a dangerously destabilizing narrative about 'unlawful orders' that fractures trust within the force." Link is here:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/cornell-law-professor-shreds-entirely-unconvincing-war-crime-accusation-against-hegseth

Those of us who served in combat arms (I am a retired artillery officer) know immediately that the main bogus aspect of this accusation is that the accusers, who presumably should know better, ignore that there is zero prohibition in any Convention prohibiting additional strikes on a target until it is destroyed, regardless of the presence of combatants, (wounded or not) who survived the first strike.

There are dozens, if not more, of instances in naval warfare where the US Navy, the Royal Navy, the German navy, the you-name-it navy, continued to pound enemy ships until they sank, without regard to the scores or more of wounded visible on the decks. And there is nothing "illegal" about doing so.

Warfare is intentional lethality. During the Gulf War and the Iraq War, US military aircraft attacked enemy troops on the ground innumerable times. They made multiple passes on the targets, strafing or bombing as they went. Should they have stopped when they saw enemy wounded?

Posted by trailing wife 2025-12-02 10:39|| 2025-12-02 10:39|| Front Page Top

8 ^Hear, hear.

Posted by Grom the Affective 2025-12-02 11:06|| 2025-12-02 11:06|| Front Page Top

9 That's why my son made this important caveat: "If what reported is true."

We need to find out what is.

Posted by European Conservative 2025-12-02 11:23|| 2025-12-02 11:23|| Front Page Top

10 :-) Two generations caught the same point — this is why we look forward to them growing up.

Posted by trailing wife 2025-12-02 11:49|| 2025-12-02 11:49|| Front Page Top

11 ...and leave them to the sharks? Or would you launch a rescue mission knowing the disastrous risk of a shoot down or they themselves gunning down the rescue team? Kiss my ass, sir.

Posted by swksvolFF 2025-12-02 12:24|| 2025-12-02 12:24|| Front Page Top

12 Btw it seems inplausible to me that Admiral Bradley would carry out an order reading "kill all the survivors" (if it was given, of course). I'd think an American admiral would know that such an order ("no quarter") would be illegal. But then again, the ship didn't carry legal combattants but designated terrorists.

Of course an order like "fire on this ship until it's destroyed" is an entirely different matter.

The Eck case was about a captain who ordered to fire on survivors in rescue rafts after the ship had been destroyed. The British had him executed as a war criminal. The case was poorly defended though and even the British conceded that a little bit of "Siegerjustiz" was involved.

Posted by European Conservative 2025-12-02 12:35|| 2025-12-02 12:35|| Front Page Top

13 Reported from anonymous sources by Natasha Bertrand, who is a lying political hack before she EVER does "Journolism"

Posted by Frank G 2025-12-02 13:22|| 2025-12-02 13:22|| Front Page Top

14 Only limp wristed weennies would impose 'laws' upon warfare. The absurdity. The gayness. You win wars by killing more of them than they kill you.

When you train for war, what are you training for?

Do you train to incapacitate the enemy, provide a court appointed attorney, and settle the matter in the court of law?

Do you train to incapacitate the enemy then take POWs?

Do you train to fight them until they scream uncle?

No. When you train for war - you train for death and destruction. Your train to kill - lethal killing machines, that becomes your purpose: lethality. You do not vanquish your enemies through kindness - that is not how you win, and if you have seen recent British demographics, you know that heritage has not won in a very long time. Hopefully our testicular fortitude is stronger than the Brits and our alphas are stronger than our betas.

Beta Men explain to you the proper way to fight.
Alpha Men win fights.

Posted by mossomo 2025-12-02 13:58|| 2025-12-02 13:58|| Front Page Top

15 The Onion coming out with a hit so quickly was a tell.

A disabled ship, or any other machine, is not a destroyed machine, even if it was impolite for operators to survive the first hit.

What I'm seeing as the psy-op, is an expansion of the tailored script radicalizing those who are off, or on, their meds encouraging civil assassinations into a wedge encouraging dissent, mutiny in the Navy term, in the command structure down to the indivual structure, to sow dissent, to 'give permission' to those like the West Point Commie or The Gal Who Ducked Out of Rivalry to be at least insufferable, to disrupt cohesion, create hesitation to lose initiative.

A Ploy as olde as time.

LOL, anyone see the photo op of the Venezuelan Security Cabinet in their Baklava Camo?

*slightly off topic, maybe, sure are a lot of movies coming out glorifying, canonizing, pop music muscicians. Strange, very strange...

Posted by swksvolFF 2025-12-02 20:22|| 2025-12-02 20:22|| Front Page Top

16 you got you a good lil soldier there Eu! Not worth a shit for anything. How long did that career last for refusing orders? Not a soldier, looking for a paycheck and experience , quit trying to convince yourself otherwise.

Posted by chris 2025-12-02 22:05|| 2025-12-02 22:05|| Front Page Top

22:56 Elmerert Hupens2660
22:05 chris
21:55 chris
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21:36 Woodrow
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20:47 Frank G
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20:22 swksvolFF
20:10 chris
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19:50 chris
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17:38 trailing wife
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