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2003-11-12 Iraq

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Posted by Bulldog 2003-11-12 5:15:51 AM|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [11138 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Seems that 12 Italian soldiers have died, I wonder if the Italians will pull back their forces afer the UN and the red cross.

Posted by Murat 2003-11-12 6:59:20 AM|| 2003-11-12 6:59:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Further attacks: 3 US soldiers killed, two in Bagdad one in northern Iraq.

Vehicle convoy of Turkish diplomats and ambasade personell attacked near the city of Samara, no casualties reported.

Posted by Murat 2003-11-12 7:10:52 AM|| 2003-11-12 7:10:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 I've been wondering how long it would be before they start to consistantly bomb the British,Italians and Poles.
Support for the war is a whole lot less in those countries than it is in the US, and if they are forced by pressure at home to pull out, that is going to greatly complicate things, not to mention embolden the head in the sand Islamofascist sympathizers here, oops I mean loyal opposition.

Posted by Mike 2003-11-12 7:27:54 AM|| 2003-11-12 7:27:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Mike, that would indeed be a logical strategy, but I'm not convinced. I suspect this is just another case of pick a target, any target, and make it a soft one. IIUC, the Italians have been the most easy-going element of the coalition forces, and I suspect that their security precautions will have been perceived to have been less of an obstacle than others'. This an the other recent attacks in Basra may also indicate that things in Baghdad aren't as easy for the terrorists as they used to be. The day al Quaeda types employ a 'strategy' worthy of the name is the day I give up beer...

Posted by Bulldog 2003-11-12 8:24:59 AM|| 2003-11-12 8:24:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Murat seems real pumped up by this news. Dead westerners really gets his blood pumping, eh?

Posted by Robert Crawford 2003-11-12 8:39:38 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2003-11-12 8:39:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Dead westerners and US "atrocities" are the only thing he likes to post about.

Posted by Charles 2003-11-12 9:04:00 AM|| 2003-11-12 9:04:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Not the death of westerners, but the tactic used is quite intriguing yes. Chasing away the UN, then chasing away the red cross and now trying to chase away the Italians, Poles and the other nations, nasty but a smart move to create problems for the occupation forces. If they, Iraqis (terrorist-insurgents-baathists) manage to do that, it will become quite a headache for the US.

Posted by Murat 2003-11-12 9:22:00 AM|| 2003-11-12 9:22:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Update: In Rome, Maj. Roberto Riccardi confirmed 14 Italians were dead: 11 Carabinieri paramilitary police and three Italian army soldiers. A coalition spokesman, Andrea Angeli, said by telephone from Nasiriyah that a truck bomb caused the explosion. Angeli said eight Iraqis died.
Angeli said the explosion occurred after a truck rammed the gate of the Italian compound and exploded in front of the Carabinieri building, which was the former chamber of commerce building. He said the force of the explosion was so strong that it blew out windows in another building across the Euphrates River. All the vehicles parked outside the stricken building exploded in flames. Angeli said secondary explosions from ammunition stored in the compound rocked the area moments after the main blast.
Riccardi said the building was in flames, and that some Italians may be under the debris, although details were difficult to come by because communication had been severed. "We cannot exclude the possibility that there are soldiers under the rubble," he said by telephone.

Posted by Steve 2003-11-12 9:31:03 AM|| 2003-11-12 9:31:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Latest from Iraq, US soldiers fire at the car of a member of the Iraqi council Muhammed Bahr El-Ulum who is reported unhurt while the driver got wounded. His car came too close to a US military base according to US officials.

Posted by Murat 2003-11-12 9:46:33 AM|| 2003-11-12 9:46:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 The Poles havent left. Nor the Brits.

I hope the Italians dont.

Nevertheless we must be honest and indicate that there is trouble here. Yes, most Iraqis are glad we are there. And yes there is slow but steady reconstruction. And enlargement in the number of Iraqis fighting beside us. And no this is no Viet Nam, for about a dozen reasons.

BUT - the security situation is not improving, yet. Maybe it will improve when more Iraqi security forces hit the streets. Or maybe they'll only be able to keep it from getting worse as the number of US troops decreases. I dont know. And the security situation seems to drive alot of the lukewarm support for the US in the Sunni triangle, especially Baghdad. And the political situation is bogged down. The IGC seems to operating painfully slowly - so much so that Bremer has said he would give them more authority, if they had the energy to take it. And they are still squabbling over the process for selecting a constitutional convention. It seems some want to drag the process out, either to directly force hand over of sovereignty before elections, or to press for concessions in order to speed the process. Even Barzani, one of the Kurdish leaders on the IGC has complained about the IGC process. Something has to give, and soon.

The good news is the admin seems to realize this, and Bremer will be discussing just these matters with the NSC.

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-11-12 9:59:55 AM|| 2003-11-12 9:59:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 "Dead westerners and US "atrocities" are the only thing he likes to post about."

Wild Dumrul has no other form of entertainment, being the idiotic moral chicken that he is.

Posted by Ernest Brown 2003-11-12 10:11:50 AM|| [saturninretrograde.blogspot.com] 2003-11-12 10:11:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 The Brits and Poles probably won't leave so easily, but what about the nations who have small forces in Iraq, for instance the Dutch who where so afraid for casualties that they fled Srebrenica leaving the Serbs a free hand in commiting a massacre. Would Japanese or Korean troops stay? And is it true that only 8 members of the Iraqi governing council stay in Iraq, the rest staying outside Iraq for fearing their live as some reports suggest?

Posted by Murat 2003-11-12 10:14:46 AM|| 2003-11-12 10:14:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Whoopdeedoo, me and my mouth, Iâve spoken and already the Dutch ministry of defence reported to investigate whether As Samavah and Thalil where Dutch soldiers are stationed is save enough. Those Dutch are a real joke!

Posted by Murat 2003-11-12 10:36:43 AM|| 2003-11-12 10:36:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 God help the sunnis if indeed ROKs are coming to patrol the triangle. Those bastards are mean, cold, and effective - I love those mofos.

As for the Dutch, maybe their gov't is waning but don't discount them as a joke Murat. The Netherlands Royal Marines are some bad-ass dudes. More then capable fighters.

Posted by Jarhead 2003-11-12 10:57:37 AM|| 2003-11-12 10:57:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 I don't believe it's only the Sunnis who are fighting there, but also the wahabbi and the Shia. At least I have never heard of a war in which only the catholics fight while the protestants are only looking at. Nor did I ever hear about a war in which only the Sunni or the Shia where involved.

Don't you know that Sunni and Shia are the equivalent of Catholic and Protestant in the Islam Jarhead?

Posted by Murat 2003-11-12 11:17:51 AM|| 2003-11-12 11:17:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 Yes, Murat, I do understand the difference between the two denominations or sects if you will. Shia's are the Catholics of the two - so to speak. 80% of the country is pacified for the most part, sure you'll have outbreaks in the south and north from time to time but that's to be expected, especially in Tikrit. The Sunni Triangle is where 90% of the problems are coming from. Sunnis make up roughly 30-40% of the country and had it good under Sammie. That's where my point about bringing in the ROKs was probably lost on you.

The Shia's will bitch because we shot one of their leaders the other day when he was dumb enough to accost a U.S. guard. The bottom line is that a lot of the attacks are being caused by foreign born non-Iraqis. Wahabbis (foreign born & other) have proven themselves to be fanatics - no surprise if they have limited involvement as well. Making 'Nam analogies where there isn't one is amusing to me.

Posted by Jarhead 2003-11-12 11:52:00 AM|| 2003-11-12 11:52:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 Murat is on to something, folks: the fedayeen and jihadis have figured out through painful experience that standing up directly to Americans usually gets one killed (ZAP! Owwww!). So instead hit the softer targets and try to split off political support from the Americans.

While the UK, Italian and Dutch governments support us, we would be kidding ourselves if we didn't recognize that a substantial portion of their populations do NOT. Get them angry over the deaths of their soldiers and they'll question their governments as to why they've committed troops to Iraq. We know where that's going.

al-Q sometimes has the strategic insights of a lump of dirt. But sometimes they happen to get a strategy right. In Iraq right now, the weak link for us is the resolve the West has to see this through. Bush won't wobble, I'm convinced of that. But others might, and that creates political pressure. It might create pressure on the 2004 election, and if a Democrat (any of 'em except Liebermann) gets elected this sort of pressure will translate into "we won, we're done and we're coming home."

And al-Q and the Ba'athists will have won. It might not be a high percentage strategy, but it's one of the few these guys have, so they're playing it.

Posted by Steve White 2003-11-12 11:54:21 AM|| 2003-11-12 11:54:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 Re: Murat's Fraktured Fairy Tales

The Sunni/Shi'a schism isn't even remotely the "equivalent of" the Catholic/Protestant schism, since Protestents aren't followers of the six Apostles murdered by Peter and the other five...
(laughing heartily at Murat's cluelessness...)

Posted by snellenr 2003-11-12 11:56:11 AM|| 2003-11-12 11:56:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 Italians aren't gutless cowards like Wild 'MuRAT' Dumrul

Posted by Ernest Brown 2003-11-12 1:03:11 PM|| [saturninretrograde.blogspot.com] 2003-11-12 1:03:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 The strategy of driving out non-American entities is an obvious attempt to validate the Left's Goebbels-inspired Big Lie that this action is "unilateral."
This is another example of terrorists and media/academic fifth columnists working hand in glove toward a common goal.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2003-11-12 11:08:34 PM|| 2003-11-12 11:08:34 PM|| Front Page Top

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