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2008-09-05 
Republican Wars: Chapter IV - A New Beginning
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Posted by Fred 2008-09-05 00:00|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [11132 views ]  Top

#1 McCain's speech tonight highlighted the cancer at the core of the party - beltway elites who have steered the party way from the GOP of TR and Reagan, and onto the GOP of GWB's waffling (No vetoes of pork in his first 6 years!) and the GOP in congress being run by the K-Street gang.

He set up a very good case for the two of them coming in as outsiders and reformers. Cleaning house first on the GOP, returning it to Reagan's populist "Jacksonian" conservatism, and then cleaning the other side of the aisle and the corruption of the "permanent" government behind them.

That will be VERY hard for Obama and Biden (the ultimate insider, been in Senate since McCain was in that POW cell) to pin the "4 more years of Bush" crap on them, and even harder for them to find a credible avenue of attack on that sort of position.
Posted by OldSpook 2008-09-05 00:32||   2008-09-05 00:32|| Front Page Top

#2 From our own Founding Father Fred -- the best and now my favorite line I've heard or read about this Audacity of Palin ---

All of which brings us back to Sarah Palin. When you're lost in the wilderness, it's good to find somebody who's at home there.

Posted by Sherry">Sherry  2008-09-05 00:54||   2008-09-05 00:54|| Front Page Top

#3 The sad thing is the COngress is likely to go Democrat so McCain and Palin will have a lot of fighting to do.
Posted by rjschwarz 2008-09-05 00:56||   2008-09-05 00:56|| Front Page Top

#4 Amen, Fred. Alaska Paul and I had a long talk while I was driving home this evening. It's not that the trunks are without sin or mistakes. Look at the travesty GW brought with his lack of backbone on illegal aliens, or his socialist "prescription drug care plan". The stupid RINOs we elected...in the Administration and in Congress... have over the past 4-6 years, p*$$ed away the money and the goodwill of the American people.

However as bad as this is, the core donks have shown who they really are and what they are capable of doing, if given the opportunity.

Witness the attack on Sarah Palin. I agree with Paul and Dennis Miller: the American people (for all the warts) are all about fair play. The donks may have overplayed their hand....finally...begun the alienation that could give the WH to the trunks. The hard core donks, by and large do not subscribe to absolutes and thus the ends justify the means. Anything to win and all costs.

I repeat again my challenge to the hard core donk who insists Palin is unqualified but voted for Jimmy Carter in 1976. Carter was a member of the local school board, hospital and library board and city council...2 terms in the State Senate and then 1 term as Governor of Georgia for cryin out loud. Gerald Ford...25 years in Congress, well respected across both aisles, Minority Leader and a sitting (though unelected VP).

If you voted for Carter over Ford and say that Palin is not qualified you are either fool and/or a hypocrite.
Posted by anymouse">anymouse  2008-09-05 01:28||   2008-09-05 01:28|| Front Page Top

#5 The financial markets have gone a bit wobbly this week. Is that all based on strictly current economic conditions? Or is it a referendum on McCain/Palin?

And PS to Fred: Episode IV was subtitled "A New Hope™." Take from that what you will.
Posted by Seafarious 2008-09-05 01:39||   2008-09-05 01:39|| Front Page Top

#6 I'd be careful with the SW reference. Episode IV ended with a scene straight out of "Triumph of the Will", which made me think the Rebels will become the new Nazis. I think better of McCain and Palin.
Posted by Eric Jablow">Eric Jablow  2008-09-05 01:52||   2008-09-05 01:52|| Front Page Top

#7 Probably 2 SCT appointments coming up in the next four years. No way we can let Bammo make them.
Posted by Iblis 2008-09-05 02:02||   2008-09-05 02:02|| Front Page Top

#8 That about summed up our conversation, Anymouse. My wife tells me that principals at her schools have warned teachers about press people deluging on Mat-Su schools trying to find out anything about Sarah Palin. I would imagine some for a story and some for dirt or smear.

I want to see Washington and MSM shook to their core by McCain and Palin. Like Graucho Marx, Daffy Duck and Bugs used to say:

Of course you know, this means war.

But this time it is not funny. Make no bones about it. It is a war for the soul of the country.
Posted by Alaska Paul 2008-09-05 03:15||   2008-09-05 03:15|| Front Page Top

#9 before getting so enthused remember

McCain-Feingold Act (campaign finance)
McCain-Kennedy Bill (immigration)
Posted by mhw 2008-09-05 04:58||   2008-09-05 04:58|| Front Page Top

#10 Regardless of what they say, I think the Democratic Party realizes they have 60 days to discredit Sarah Palin. If John McCain wins this election, Sarah Palin will be invincible in 2012 and 2016.
Posted by junkirony 2008-09-05 07:29||   2008-09-05 07:29|| Front Page Top

#11 I wonder how the Asshole REtarded SooperGenius Guys are doing with their rewrite of the Gospel where Jesus is a ward heeler for the Herod machine.
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2008-09-05 09:11||   2008-09-05 09:11|| Front Page Top

#12 Emotions aside, McCain & Palin need to start talking specifics especially what they are going to do that is "different" from what W and the Congress (both of them - the repubs and dems) have done or not done. Energy - put Palin on the point. Economy - need some specifics on taxes especially corporate taxes and reducing our debt. How to make the financial mess evaporate and create more sustainable growth - what levers to pull and how to effect confidence in the economy. Blah, Blah, Blah!
Posted by Jack is Back!">Jack is Back!  2008-09-05 10:12||   2008-09-05 10:12|| Front Page Top

#13 This financial mess ain't goin to evaporate. There's lots more to come for the next 2 years.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-09-05 10:15||   2008-09-05 10:15|| Front Page Top

#14 The financial markets have gone a bit wobbly this week. Is that all based on strictly current economic conditions? Or is it a referendum on McCain/Palin?

Posted by Seafarious


The financial marketeers don't like change. They like predictability. Gov. Palin is an unknown quantity to them, so they flinch. The markets are always a mess during an election year, doesn't mean jack.
Posted by DLR 2008-09-05 10:28|| http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html]">[http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html]  2008-09-05 10:28|| Front Page Top

#15 McCain appealed to me because he was different. He was a "maverick" - a reformer - and also a moderate. In this run it wasnt clear how much he wanted to be a moderate.

In this convention he has reaffirmed himself as a maverick - ready to take on those of both parties who engage in the narrow corruption of set asides and lobbyists favors and so forth. He did NOT show himself a moderate - on all the key domestic issues he did not show himself different from W at all. Energy, taxes, education, health care those are all Bush policies he supports.

Now you can pretend to yourselves taht the problems today are cause the "beltway types" hijacked Bush. AFAICT the key special interests supporting Bush are no different from those who supported Reagan, or who still support the GOP policies.

And no, the GOP isnt the anti-party or the natural party of reform, unless you happen to identify reform with your specific agenda - I know thats appealing to you, as the opposite agenda is identified with reform on the left - but to the center both ideologies must stand on their own. Govt solutions are neither automatically good or automatically bad, public policy to address social justice is not a bad thing helping those scuzzy types who dont deserve help, nor is it something to be supported regardless of cost or whether the program is thought out.

The American center is wise, I think. They (barely) favored Clinton and his reinvention of the center left. When W offered compassionate conservatism, and Gore began to drift from Clintonism to poorly thought out populism, they favored W (by a hair). They favored Bush again during a time of war, when Bush seemed to be competent at running the war (and again, that was close).

This year, the GOP seems to think the problem with W was that there was too much compassion and too little conservatism. That it didnt stick enough to its conservative principle. I think they profoundly misread the center, which has never bought off on that ideology - I can explain each GOP win since 1980 on terms other than ideology, in terms of factors that dont apply this year.

Against this GOP, this year, Hillary could won solidly, Biden perhaps in a landslide. Unfortunately, the anti-DLC left, frustrated for so long, facing a DLC weakened by Iraq, finally won (but by a hair). Fortunately, maybe, for the Dems, Obama seems to have the intelligence to see that the center is where the win will be.

I think BHO will win, perhaps by a hair.

as for the GOP being more fun, I dont think so. Didactic - mention your core issues, and theres as much didacticism and political correctness as on the DEM side. Certainly your convention, which seemed to be much more enthusiastic about Palin than McCain, doesnt show that openness and diversity.

And tamany hall?? Man, theres lots of US political history you dont know. There have been GOP political machines through the 19th and 20th C - rural machines, in Philadelphia even an urban machine. State machines in Indiana in the 20th c, and in ohio in the 19th. Republican machine politics isnt a product of post 1996, its a product of the messiness of democracy, and has been around a long time.

This is not to neglect that Republicans can be pro-reform - not just TR, but someone else you seldom hear mentioned La Guardia - perhaps because he was truely a Republican who joined the party only to oppose a Dem machine, but who did not share the conservative gospels of his time. He was endorsed by the GOP, and by the NY Labor party (later the NY Liberal party). Theres no more room for them in todays GOP.

Sarah Palin has challenged the Alaska good old boys. Has she challenged GOP orthodoxy? Has she stood up for the teaching of real science in the schools? Has she challenged the global warming denial of the right? Has she challenged GOP orthodoxy on taxes or health care? If so, I dont see it.
Posted by liberalhawk 2008-09-05 10:56||   2008-09-05 10:56|| Front Page Top

#16  Against this GOP, this year, Hillary could won solidly, Biden perhaps in a landslide.

Whatever it is you're using, if it makes you that delusional it's got to be illegal. "Biden" and "landslide" are two words that simply never will be, and never under any conceivable circumstances could ever have been, connected with the word "win" between them.

Biden? BIDEN? The guy who had to steal lines from Neil Kinnock? The guy affectionately known as "Plugs?" The most annoying bloviator since Warren Harding?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Man, that's some good stuff you're using, LH. For the sake of all of us, stay away from your car or any type of heavy machinery...
Posted by Jolutch Mussolini7800 2008-09-05 11:26||   2008-09-05 11:26|| Front Page Top

#17 Dems and the chattering class are in trouble....

NOBAMA 08...Just keep the change...
Posted by crazyhorse 2008-09-05 11:32||   2008-09-05 11:32|| Front Page Top

#18 Biden landslide? Biden only gets microphones and chairmanships due to a seniority system. Obama is just cynical enough to think that "Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee" is a title that will earn his ticket some much-needed foreign policy respect. In reality, the more Biden opens his mouth, the more Obama will lose. The only way Obama/Biden can win is to avoid all debates.
Posted by Darrell 2008-09-05 11:38||   2008-09-05 11:38|| Front Page Top

#19 Look at the records of Biden and Obama; two of the three most liberal votes in the Senate. McCain is among the most conservative, his maverickness being a function of pique with W as much as personality but not policy, as I expect Palin would be also.

With donk control of Congress unlikely to be overturned, the voters have two very distinct alternatives, either a significant shift to the left or stalemate.

McCain's challenge is to make this clear to voters. I suspect he will not be up to this challenge because of his unwillingness to campaign properly against his fellow club members.

He has set Palin up as a contender for '12 by which time there may be significant buyer's remorse if The One does win.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-09-05 11:43||   2008-09-05 11:43|| Front Page Top

#20 Look at the records of Biden and Obama; two of the three most liberal votes in the Senate. McCain is among the most conservative, his maverickness being a function of pique with W as much as personality but not policy, as I expect Palin would be also.

With donk control of Congress unlikely to be overturned, the voters have two very distinct alternatives, either a significant shift to the left or stalemate.

McCain's challenge is to make this clear to voters. I suspect he will not be up to this challenge because of his unwillingness to campaign properly against his fellow club members.

He has set Palin up as a contender for '12 by which time there may be significant buyer's remorse if The One does win.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-09-05 11:43||   2008-09-05 11:43|| Front Page Top

#21 mhw, before getting too rainy I'd say that I agree with about half of McCain's voting record. The few things I have agreed with bo's statements he flops on in short order making him completely untrustworthy.

Yes, specifics need to be talked about - that was brought up with our watching group. But the convention is not the time to do that, only outline topics else they would still be there talking. That is, you don't give away your coaching scheme at the pep rally.

BO:JB will win if JM:SP let them evade debate and sit back to entrench key states. As a KU man I'm telling you that you can win even when everyone says not just that you arn't supposed to win but you are not allowed to win. I think you Giants fans out there could agree. There is a lot of campaigning left and bo was supposed to be up 10 points or something not dead even.

We are standing on the shoulders of giants and too many people are looking for earwax.

Eric you lost me. Look, you are sitting in the base huddling with your family watching the ticker count down until the very planet you are on is about to be evaporated, knowing that your odds at best are like the roule+te wheel hitting 00 four times in a row. Only a handful of entire squadren comes back damn right I'd throw a barbeque. Its the Battle of Midway as I saw it. The very real threat of the Empire was defeated so why worry about the potential politics at that point. Besides, I think one had to believe in national socialism and/or dear leader and only one ticket fits that bill. Republicans becoming the new nazis just pissed me off, completely demeaning and void of the reality of the American value system.
Posted by swksvolFF 2008-09-05 11:47||   2008-09-05 11:47|| Front Page Top

#22 Sorry about the double post. Don't know how I did that.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-09-05 11:51||   2008-09-05 11:51|| Front Page Top

#23 Just on the basis of an entirely non-scientific survey of female human beings of my acquaintance, I would say that the personal attacks on Palin and her family remind me of those work-accident guys who get the red wire and the green wire mixed up. And it's almost as if McCain just knew the opposition would react that way.
Posted by Matt 2008-09-05 12:19||   2008-09-05 12:19|| Front Page Top

#24 #9: before getting so enthused remember

McCain-Feingold Act (campaign finance)
McCain-Kennedy Bill (immigration)

I'm still having problems with the immigration thing. I like Sarah Palin a lot. How could I not? She might just bring me around. But she hasn't said boo about immigration and I suspect she won't because it's probably not much of a problem in Alaska. Here in Kaliphornia it has had a severe impact. I wouldn't be surprised if neither of the candidates campaigns in this state. Obama probably figures he has it in the bag and McCain probably figures it'd be a waste of his time and money. That's what Bush figured and Kerry never showed up here either. Yeah, they visit their rich friends once in a while to collect contributions that they will spend in other states but they ignore the voters. We're accustomed to being ignored by presidential candidates. This used to be a red state. Remember Nixon? Remember Reagan? Now if Republicans say the demographics have changed it's their own damn fault because they let it happen.

McCain says he is his own man, that he wants to serve America and not any special interests. I want to believe that but how does he explain the McCain-Kennedy Bill? How is that "right for America"? It isn't. Was it an honest mistake or a special interest thing?

As I watched the conventions I realized as I have so many times before that I feel a lot more at home with Republicans. I know I can't expect to agree with them on everything but I still think they have some work to do cleaning up their act.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2008-09-05 12:28||   2008-09-05 12:28|| Front Page Top

#25 Certainly your convention, which seemed to be much more enthusiastic about Palin than McCain, doesnt show that openness and diversity.

I don't know - how many Code Pinks and protesters were on the floor of the DNC?
Posted by Milton Fandango 2008-09-05 12:30||   2008-09-05 12:30|| Front Page Top

#26 AFAICT the key special interests supporting Bush are no different from those who supported Reagan

Then you certainly are not very observant. And "support" does nto entail the muchy payoffs that are happening now with rampant earmarks and pork-barrel projects, all of which Reagan fought, and none of whcih Bush coudl be boehtered to Veto.

And you also miss the point- the corruption he speaks of isnt neccesarily Bush, its mainly rooted inthe congress.

Of course, LH, you seem to be getting your talking points from the Obama campaign, so if you are going to lobotomize yourself in that manner, you may want to refrain from posting such stupidities as the one you put about Bien winning the presidency - Palin got nearly as many votes for Mayor as Biden did in most primaries; that pretty much puts your point in the "Stuck on Stupid" bin.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-09-05 12:45||   2008-09-05 12:45|| Front Page Top

#27 Immigration has become an issue at the level of the states, because the states have been passing and enforcing laws against illegals while Congress very noisily accomplished nothing. Candidate McCain doesn't bother addressing the issue because the people have made their will very, very clear on the matter... and Homeland Security keeps sending ICE out to collect illegals in ever-increasing multiple hundreds, which is scaring others into quietly moving back home.

There are plenty of laws on the books about illegals. It's just a matter of enforcing them, not passing new ones to be ignored.
Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife  2008-09-05 12:52||   2008-09-05 12:52|| Front Page Top

#28 I think the one thing that can win it for the Repugs this time is energy - especially the "Drill here, drill now" meme. I know a lot of people are being hurt by the high cost of energy, and the pass-along rise in costs of everything else. The Dems' refusal to open up domestic production will kill them, not only in the Presidential election, but in a lot of tight races for Congress. Hammering that one point could be the deciding factor in the 2008 election.
Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot  2008-09-05 12:52|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]  2008-09-05 12:52|| Front Page Top

#29 I'm paying $3.25 for regular. We'll be testing $3.00 by election day. No. 2 Fuel bills won't have hit yet. It won't be an issue for the swing voter by then.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-09-05 12:55||   2008-09-05 12:55|| Front Page Top

#30 What is the lapel pin that I've seen Palin wearing both nights of the R convention. Small, white, rectangular.

Looks like the Israeli flag. Anyone know?
Posted by EHLTB 2008-09-05 13:14||   2008-09-05 13:14|| Front Page Top

#31 NS, well, then BushCheney better call his oil buddies and order them to jack the prices up or the Republicans might lose!
/sarcasm
Posted by Rambler in California 2008-09-05 13:16||   2008-09-05 13:16|| Front Page Top

#32 I don't know - how many Code Pinks and protesters were on the floor of the DNC?


Weren't most of them outside on the street with buckets of urine and excrement?
Posted by Jolutch Mussolini7800 2008-09-05 13:29||   2008-09-05 13:29|| Front Page Top

#33 
What is the lapel pin that I've seen Palin wearing both nights of the R convention. Small, white, rectangular 

It's a Blue Star Mother flag - indicates she has a son/daughter in military service.
Posted by lotp 2008-09-05 14:14||   2008-09-05 14:14|| Front Page Top

#34 EHLTB,

I believe the label pin you refer to is a Blue Star insignia. Palin is not wearing the flag of

Mothers of men and women in uniform (not as community organizers) serving their country wear these pins with great pride. Most, though not all, of these mothers are Trunks.

Having said this, I do not doubt for a second that Gov. Palin would be proud to wear the flag of Israel. I believe the good Governor is aware that Israel is the only oasis of freedom in a muslim swamp.
Posted by MarkZ 2008-09-05 14:21||   2008-09-05 14:21|| Front Page Top

#35 Las Vegas is saying:

The 2004 US Presidential election was the single largest nonsporting event ever bet on and the 2008 US Presidential race will easily top that record.

"The Democratic party needs to be very worried after McCain's speech," warned Payton O'Brien, Senior Editor of the Gambling911.com website, which monitors political prediction markets throughout the day. "Public web polls show that McCain's speech had a positive effect overall and this is very much reflected in Friday afternoon's prediction market odds."

Prediction markets have proven to be especially accurate in determining outcomes of political elections especially as the event gets nearer.
Posted by JohnQC 2008-09-05 17:10||   2008-09-05 17:10|| Front Page Top

#36 Saracuda rocks!
Posted by Legolas 2008-09-05 18:45||   2008-09-05 18:45|| Front Page Top

#37 Liberalhawk. You spend much of your focus on the flaws of the GOP.

You said, "There have been GOP political machines through the 19th and 20th C"

Am I correct in assuming that your idea of change is to vote for a man whose rise to power has been by positioning himself inside what is well known as the single most corrupt political machine in the country?

You ask, "Has she challenged GOP orthodoxy?" But you fail to ask yourself if Obama has ever challenged either the corrupt Chicago machine (answer=no) or the same failed liberal marxist dogma that has ruined the economy of every country it has ever been practiced in?

Has she stood up for the teaching of real science in the schools?
Have you asked yourself if Obama ever stood up against the Black Separatists and anti-semites within his church? He never stood up against Ayers, Acorn or refused the sweetheart deal from Rezko on his mortgage.

Spare us the lectures on the need to look deeper until you do the same.
Posted by Betty Grating2215 2008-09-05 19:44||   2008-09-05 19:44|| Front Page Top

#38 Galrahn on teen pregnancy - Out of Bounds - Sex Ed didn't stop me, nor stop my wife from getting pregnant, getting married, having a child, ...at age 17, before she graduated high school, college, or even law school.
Posted by 3dc 2008-09-05 22:07||   2008-09-05 22:07|| Front Page Top

23:58 OldSpook
23:42 Frank G
23:41 Frank G
23:37 EHLTB
23:24 Beavis
23:12 OldSpook
23:10 Whavish Untervehr4912
23:06 Whavish Untervehr4912
23:05 European Conservative
23:02 OldSpook
22:56 Frank G
22:42 Steve White
22:40 OldSpook
22:26 Mike
22:23 no mo uro
22:17 no mo uro
22:07 3dc
21:59 g(r)omgoru
21:57 g(r)omgoru
21:27 ed
21:27 MarkZ
21:26 Adriane
21:23 bruce
21:22 Frank G
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