Article

2008-09-04 Home Front: Politix

al Gurdian sez Biden sez "Obama might pursue criminal charges against Bush "

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by anymouse 2008-09-04 02:01|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [11130 views ] Top

#1 Just keep diggin', BO.

Posted by Bobby 2008-09-04 06:50|| 2008-09-04 06:50|| Front Page Top

#2 ....if they are elected in November.

That's a very big "if."

Posted by Besoeker 2008-09-04 07:37|| 2008-09-04 07:37|| Front Page Top

#3 That was the start of the fall of the Roman Republic. Making being a political opponent a crime. In the end that's why Caesar took the legions across the Rubicon because he knew what awaited him in Rome for his success on the field but losing the power game in the Senate. What goes around, comes around. Those who do this then will have to suspend the constitution knowing that if power does change then it'll be their turn in the dockets. So they can not permit the orderly transfer of power.

Posted by Procopius2k 2008-09-04 09:02|| 2008-09-04 09:02|| Front Page Top

#4 That is what I fear we are coming to, Procopius2k. That the entrenched political class, on both sides, is too corrupt and to reluctant to let go of power and will happily piss on the constitution just for power grabs.
Hopefully, McCain/Palin can break this cycle, but we will see. If Bambi is elected, I can see some American generals crossing the Rubicon to restore the Republic.

Posted by DarthVader 2008-09-04 10:19|| 2008-09-04 10:19|| Front Page Top

#5 you guys actually expect them to say "no, we wont investigate anything, we're granting a general pardon to anyone who did anything" Cause basically all theyve said in the above quotes is that they wont do that.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-09-04 10:46|| 2008-09-04 10:46|| Front Page Top

#6 LH - you remember what kicked this off? The October Surprise investigation the Democrats initiated against Ronald Reagan based upon that period's 'truthers' who believed he had conspired with the Iranian so to thwart the release of the hostages till after the election. Since then its been one round of hits, each against the other, depending upon who rule the gavel. Tit for tat and its getting nastier each time. It's no different over in the judicial nominations since Bork. They're so wrapped up in things that are no more than the stereotypical show trials that they lost perspective on preserving the republic. So go for it LH, let's keep upping the bid cause I know were its all going to lead.

Posted by Procopius2k 2008-09-04 11:18|| 2008-09-04 11:18|| Front Page Top

#7 Biden is throwing red meat to the far left. Most Americans don't want a witch hunt and they want an end to partisan bickering. Saying this was a mistake.

Posted by rjschwarz 2008-09-04 11:23|| 2008-09-04 11:23|| Front Page Top

#8 Maybe I was unclear. Im not calling for any prosecutions in particular. But im saying that the quotes you quys are getting upset about are of the "we cant rule it out" variety, not the "we will do it" variety.

And I dont see how its possible to rule out prosecutions, if evidence of actual criminal wrong doing occurs. For an administration that isnt even over, for crying out loud.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-09-04 11:43|| 2008-09-04 11:43|| Front Page Top

#9 They'd have to find an attorney general willing to try the cases, judges to hear them, and knowing that it's likely not only derisive laughter but subsequent retribution awaits if they have to take it as far as the Supreme Court and lose. The Bushes have deep pockets and a great many friends with deep pockets, and they know lots and lots of very good lawyers -- better even the Barack and Michelle Obama put together.

And of course, this does presume the Democrats keep control of Congress.

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-09-04 11:56|| 2008-09-04 11:56|| Front Page Top

#10 1. This isnt just about Bush, but more about Gonzales and some other folks in DoJ.

2.If you think the GOP is going to capture either house of congress in 2008 Id like to know what it is youre smoking. I mean really, just look at the ratios of vacancies, the individual races, etc.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-09-04 12:01|| 2008-09-04 12:01|| Front Page Top

#11 I have no idea about Congress, liberalhawk. But Sarah Palin has suddenly caused a lot of people to think about things that had been decided. And, the Democrats don't hold either House so tightly that a few districts here and there won't make a big difference in which party gets to be majority, especially with Joe Lieberman clearly in play.

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-09-04 12:17|| 2008-09-04 12:17|| Front Page Top

#12 I'm sorry. For your point 1, I think the Bushes would be very wise to be loyal to Gonzales, etc. Jeb Bush's career is not over, nor do the Bushes want to be shunned by their friends.

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-09-04 12:18|| 2008-09-04 12:18|| Front Page Top

#13 LH...I respect you, and most of the opinions you have posted over the years. But I think (emphasize "think") you underestimate the hatred the Left has for Bushcheney. Based on what reidpelosikennedy have done with with a trunk DOJ, I think it is not only possible, but likely they will pursue this.

Opinions are like armpits...we've all got 'em and they all stink (well...everyone but me!). Take care.

Posted by anymouse">anymouse 2008-09-04 12:51|| 2008-09-04 12:51|| Front Page Top

#14 whether the bushes are loyal to Gonzales or not is not my point. My point is that there may well be grounds for prosecution of Gonzales or folks lower down at DOJ that are quite different from the political circus of a prosecution of Bush. You can hardly expect Biden or Obama to give a promise not to prosecute Gonzales, and that seems to be what some here are expecting. Its particularly ironic since in another thread folks are trumpeting over the sentencing of the former mayor of Detroit.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-09-04 13:27|| 2008-09-04 13:27|| Front Page Top

#15 And Palin is not going to help the GOP win congress. I doubt she will help McCain win the election. Yeah, she revs up the base - but by the same toke she revs up the Dem base, and gives Obama an even freer hand to run to the center. And it makes it harder to portray McCain as a centrist and a real break from Bush. Not to mention gutting the experience attack on Obama.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-09-04 13:31|| 2008-09-04 13:31|| Front Page Top

#16 hatred the Left has for Bushcheney. Based on what reidpelosikennedy have done with with a trunk DOJ, I think it is not only possible, but likely they will pursue this.

What the political appointees did to the hiring process at DoJ was kinda outrageous.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-09-04 13:32|| 2008-09-04 13:32|| Front Page Top

#17 Keep the kooks happy, Joe. Don't want no hippies pissing on your lawn like they did at Pelosi's place...

Posted by tu3031 2008-09-04 13:50|| 2008-09-04 13:50|| Front Page Top

#18 What the political appointees did to the hiring process at DoJ was kinda outrageous. Do you remember LH what that process was like under Clinton? I do, so it's hard for me to take that claim seriously.

Posted by lotp 2008-09-04 14:04|| 2008-09-04 14:04|| Front Page Top

#19 Palin isn't going to help McCain win?

My ass.

Look who's got a shot at millions of Shrillary voters now and which party is going to pull numbers of females away from the hansom Barbi.

The donks got shot in the face with their own ammo, and its gonna hurt for a long time.

Posted by Mike N. 2008-09-04 14:21|| 2008-09-04 14:21|| Front Page Top

#20 Do you remember LH what that process was like under Clinton? I do, so it's hard for me to take that claim seriously.

Let's help LH out. I presume he's referring to US attorneys who serve at the pleasure of the President. Clinton fired every single one and brought in his own cronies; Bush kept most of Clinton's people and eventually replaced a few. Clearly Bill Clinton should be prosecuted!

Posted by AzCat 2008-09-04 15:38|| 2008-09-04 15:38|| Front Page Top

#21 the US attorneys fired by Gonzales had been appointed by Bush. That wasnt what that was about, but that they were fired for making decisions that the admin didnt like with regard to decisions to pursue or not pursue specific investigations.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-09-04 15:41|| 2008-09-04 15:41|| Front Page Top

#22 that was one scandal. The other scandal was the use of political criteria in civil service hiring in DoJ, in positions NOT at the pleasure of the president. Senior ExeC service positions, I think.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-09-04 15:43|| 2008-09-04 15:43|| Front Page Top

#23 liberalhawk... from the point of view of ... me ... Palin castrated Obama last night.
That's why the left has lost it...
Threats to lawfare will just make it worse...
After last night it is not a campaign against Bush and the Republicans - Obama needs to switch defense and offense. The previous game is dead. Palin killed it.

Posted by 3dc 2008-09-04 17:26|| 2008-09-04 17:26|| Front Page Top

#24 The last desperate resort of scoundrels.

Posted by JohnQC 2008-09-04 18:11|| 2008-09-04 18:11|| Front Page Top

#25 LH, you and the sleazy leftie sumbitches you shill for will have to prove those charges. Of course, your side has already shown you haven't the slightest qualm about going after people who haven't done anything wrong. Like Scooter Libby, for example. Fitzgerald should be doing time himself for that sterling example of politically motivated criminal prosecution.

Nor has your side shrunk from ANY dirty trick in defending your own criminal behavior. Witness the attacks on Ken Starr and the all-in defense of Bill Clinton for perjury and obstruction when you ALL knew damned well that Clinton was guilty as he could possibly be. We won't even start talking about Obama's ties to criminals and criminal activity. Doesn't matter who the criminal is, as long as he's a Dem your side will defend him to the knife. Sandy Burglar ring a bell? How about your bud "Cold Cash"?

Even if you were right about the DOJ, which you're not, for you to come here and bitch about the Republicans using politics in hiring/firing when your side does nothing BUT that is pretty damned rich. The hypocrisy of your Dem lot absolutely disgusts me and as long as you associate with them, you deserve nothing but a permanent trip to Coventry.

I truly wonder how you stupid, corrupt, baby-killing, criminal-coddling, minority-pandering bastards can look at yourselves in the mirror every day. You Dems are simply beneath contempt.

Posted by Jolutch Mussolini 7800 2008-09-04 19:25|| 2008-09-04 19:25|| Front Page Top

#26 LH, there's been some loose talk about civil war on this site from time to time. If you'll notice though I'm outspoken and occasionally outrageous, I've not partaken.

But Biden's qualifications in his statements are insufficient. He was lured into saying things that are technically accurate but stupid. A problem for lawyers.

Make no mistake, should he not emphatically disavow them and be elected I will be assuring that the family heirlooms are really in operational condition and if not, upgrading to state of the art lethal equipment.

I suspect I will not be alone when this becomes general knowledge as I expect Rush to make it next week.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-09-04 20:03|| 2008-09-04 20:03|| Front Page Top

#27 The intentional erosion of social contract that started with Gore's petulance at losing in 2000, aided and abetted by the media, moved into open war as it became fasionable to openly state one 'hated' Bush, Cheney, conservatives.

When one indulges and celebrates hatred, the next small step is to justify to oneself any and every sort of destructive attacks. We've seen Western media embrace transparent lies (Dan Rather, Eason Jordan, the French TV video that launched the latest intifada, the faked footage from Lebanon, unvetted agitprop from Ba'athist spokesman in Iraq ...) in order to attack the Bush administration and our efforts in Iraq. We've seen vicious slanders, smears and intentional distortions thrown at Bush and Cheney, at Joe Lieberman and others.

The right and centrists have not attacked back. For years we've absorbed and worked around them in the belief that the existential threats we face require singleness of purpose on our part. The cynical and utterly destructive prosecutions around Plamegate were not met in kind by Bush, who let Sandy Berger get off with a 2 yr suspension of his security clearance FOR DESTROYING RECORDS RELATING TO TERROR ISSUES IN THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN. I believe Bush did so to avoid an all out civil division while we deal with Iraq and other threats. And while many here grew increasingly frustrated with Bush's passivity and failure to respond, I've not criticized him on this point because I think I know what greater goal he is trying hard to achieve.

But this has got to stop. There is no more slack for tolerating the destructive and pernicious actions of the left over the last 8 years. If Biden and Pelosi his puppetmaster even continue to talk this talk, NS will not be the only one who takes careful stock of equipment inventories.

Posted by lotp 2008-09-04 20:45|| 2008-09-04 20:45|| Front Page Top

#28 Could W give a a pardon to Gonzolez on his way out of office? Could a President do a proactive pardon?

Personally I don't really care if they go after him or not as long as they only look for real crimes and don't do it just for media attention which is what they really want.

Posted by rjschwarz 2008-09-04 20:55|| 2008-09-04 20:55|| Front Page Top

#29 F*uck off, Aris. You know nothing of our country and culture.

This crap is exactly why you got banned. And you deserve it.

I'm sure the mods will be along soon. Buh-bye.

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2008-09-04 21:03|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/] 2008-09-04 21:03|| Front Page Top

#30 Why are we letting this manure monger back?

If Biden is serious about this, he should make it a BIG campaign issue now. If what Gonzales did was so bad, impeach or make it a political issue for the American people to decide. But don't weasel into office and then start a bunch of political witch hunts and show trials. Even McCarthy didn't sink that low, even though he was right.

That may be the EUropean or Greek way, but it's not American and it will rend the country asunder.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-09-04 21:12|| 2008-09-04 21:12|| Front Page Top

#31 I don't know. I could see prosecuting Gonzales. Of course, I wanted to see Sandy Berger go to jail too. I don't thank that's what Biden and the other commenters here are thinking of.

Posted by Eric Jablow">Eric Jablow 2008-09-04 21:18|| 2008-09-04 21:18|| Front Page Top

#32 Thank you, Mods.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-09-04 21:30|| 2008-09-04 21:30|| Front Page Top

#33 Sandy Berger should certainly have gone to jail after stealing files from the National Archives.

Posted by rjschwarz 2008-09-04 23:49|| 2008-09-04 23:49|| Front Page Top

#34 I'm sure he was just following clues to some ancient treasure but htat's not really an excuse.

Posted by rjschwarz 2008-09-04 23:49|| 2008-09-04 23:49|| Front Page Top

23:57 Broadhead6
23:54 Swamp Blondie in the Cornfields
23:50 ed
23:49 rjschwarz
23:49 rjschwarz
23:47 rjschwarz
23:47 ed
23:46 General Comment
23:46 rjschwarz
23:39 Swamp Blondie in the Cornfields
23:39 JosephMendiola
23:37 Broadhead6
23:34 Barbara Skolaut
23:32 Barbara Skolaut
23:31 Swamp Blondie in the Cornfields
23:31 Redneck Jim
23:29 Redneck Jim
23:27 JosephMendiola
23:27 Redneck Jim
23:26 ed
23:20 Broadhead6
23:16 General Comment
23:12 Barbara Skolaut
23:12 General Comment
Merry-Go-Blog