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2005-08-09 Israel-Palestine
Gaza settlers surrender weapons ahead of pullout
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Posted by Steve White 2005-08-09 00:00|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [11128 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 This is proving to be a horrendous few weeks.
Posted by Jan 2005-08-09 01:12||   2005-08-09 01:12|| Front Page Top

#2 I still don't like this disengagement.
Posted by Captain America 2005-08-09 01:19||   2005-08-09 01:19|| Front Page Top

#3 Like the guy says, it's up to the army now. I think it's a bad idea, but maybe it IS easier to just fence out the savages, and let them stew in their own juices.
Posted by Scooter McGruder 2005-08-09 05:14||   2005-08-09 05:14|| Front Page Top

#4 circle the wagons. I know it's unpopular, but I think it's a good strategy. And at the very least, it's a strategy. You can fight for thousands of years over a patch of land or you can do something bold and move forward.

Do I think that the Paleos will stop at Gaza? No. Do I think they will stop short of anything short of trying to push the Jews into the sea? No. But with this move, Sharon is circling the wagons and can concentrate on keeping the savages out.

In some ways, it's like our own Western experience. I have no problem with settlers who want to stay - except it's become clear that the calvary can't protect them. So they have a choice, get inside the fort or take your chances. If they want to take their chances, more power to them, but only if they don't expect the members of the calvary to risk their lives in a battle they can't win.

The thought comes to mind of surfers in Hawaii who go out to surf big waves during a hurricane or storm. Fine. But then don't go calling 911 and asking someone else to rescue you. You made your choice - now deal with it.
Posted by 2b 2005-08-09 05:45||   2005-08-09 05:45|| Front Page Top

#5 2b,

While we are it, let's give up Mexifornia, MexiTexas, and Mexizona when the illegals wear bomb vests in our malls, looking for land. We will give up the land, build a wall and live in absolute nirvana.

The "let them stew in their own juices" theory is not going to ever work.

1. Bush is not going to be President forever.
2. Sharon is not going to be PM forever.
3. The land give away for security has already been tried and failed. The sellout Ehud Barak, gave away the Golan Heights and now there is proxy attack after proxy attack by the Iranians. Israel can't retaliate like they want to because of 1. UN Peace keepers 2. world condemnation.

After the Gaza pullout, the UN Peacekeepers will line up on the Gaza border as human shield preventing the Israeli's from retaliating to the attacks from inside the "pullout zone."

Bottomline, the pullout will be an utter disaster.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-09 09:51||   2005-08-09 09:51|| Front Page Top

#6 Disagree - defensible borders/walls/along with massive retaliation to any mortar, rockets. Let the Paleos have their hellhole, and bring hell to the violators
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2005-08-09 10:53||   2005-08-09 10:53|| Front Page Top

#7 btw - the Paleo civil war is on, and will break out openly once the settlers leave. Pass the popcorn
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2005-08-09 10:55||   2005-08-09 10:55|| Front Page Top

#8 Frank,

Just one question. How do you explain the Golan debacle?
Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-09 11:17||   2005-08-09 11:17|| Front Page Top

#9 Golan debacle? The '73 surprise attack on the heights? Or perhaps you're talking about the withdrawl from Lebannon?
Posted by Shipman 2005-08-09 15:32||   2005-08-09 15:32|| Front Page Top

#10 Ship,

I am referring to the 3rd statement on thread #5. Please read before responding. Ehud's recent give in to the terrs away. You may have to Google to get more details.

Ehud pullout of the Golan Heights, similar to the now "Gaza pullout for peace outcry," has already been tried. The end result as you can witness realtime.....

....the Sheba Farms gets shelled constantly by Hizb and the pullout got plenty of Lebenase Christians killed. The Lebanese Christians once provided with Israel with valuable intel on the Hizb. movements. Ehud stabbed them in the back by pulling out.

The more land Israel gives away, the more they get shelled in return.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-09 16:07||   2005-08-09 16:07|| Front Page Top

#11 Here is something from Cal Thomas:

The end of Israel?
by Cal Thomas, August 4, 2005

In the H.G Wells novel and subsequent film, "The Invisible Man," the main character takes a dangerous drug and slowly disappears.

That is a metaphor for what is happening to Israel as it plans its latest unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, which it once "occupied" for security purposes. Israel is slowly disappearing, and the twin drugs of appeasement and self-delusion are responsible.

The "disengagement" later this month (which is actually a retreat and is seen that way by Israel's enemies) will not be the end, anymore than previous retreats, concessions, "good will" gestures and written documents have produced security or peace in the region.

Only after Israel is destroyed will the West realize what it did and failed to do, but it will find convenient and comforting explanations to absolve itself from any blame. Jews, you see, are always responsible not only for the world's problems, but for bringing destruction upon themselves by virtue of their being Jews.


Some Israelis are placing faith in a formal "letter of assurance" that President Bush addressed to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon on April 14, 2004, in which the president assured Sharon that the United States would back Israel's claim for defensible borders, which Israelis take to mean the West Bank. The Palestinian and Arab sides have not agreed to any borders.

Israel trusts the word of the president, even as the State Department continues its pro-Arab ways and pressures Israel into real concessions while accepting as gospel empty promises from the Palestinian side, a side that has lived up to only one pledge: to eradicate the Jewish state.

Does anyone doubt that the moment (or even before the moment) the last Jewish "settler" is dislodged from Gaza and the last thriving business closed, that Hamas and its legion of demons will rush into Gaza, expand their terror operation and begin close-up attacks on Israel?


Who will stop them? It won't be the Europeans, or the Palestinians, or any Arab state that helps subsidize them. When the next formal war is launched against Israel, will the United States send troops and planes? With so little land left to defend, it is likely such a war will be over soon after it starts with Israeli cities reduced to rubble and casualties running to perhaps tens of thousands, or more.

No responsible business owner would give something to his customers without receiving something in return, or he would not remain in business for long. Why should Israel be required to do all the giving and none of the receiving?

Have we forgotten what produced the Israeli "occupation" of the Gaza Strip? In May, 1967, the armies of Egypt, Jordan and Syria gathered on Israel's borders in another attempt to eradicate Israel. These armies enjoyed backing from several other Arab countries, much as Hitler's "final solution" enjoyed similar support from some of the same Arab states. Israel's pre-emptive strike allowed it to gain control of Gaza and the West Bank.


Has anything changed in the Palestinian and Arab world? Has the rhetoric in mosques, schools and media cooled toward Israel or the objective of eliminating it? It has not. If anything, the rhetoric has become even more volatile. The Israelis are held in such contempt that they must dig up their dead from cemeteries in Gush Katif, including six graves of area residents murdered by terrorists, to avoid the desecration they've experienced in the past. Not a single Jew, living or dead, will be allowed to remain.

Based on past performance, once Israel's retreat is finished, the Palestinian-Arab side may digest its latest prey like a giant boa constrictor swallowing a large mouse. But after swallowing, it will want more. Look for another intifada and then look for the State Department and the rest of the administration to again pressure Israel to "do more."

The formula is wrong. Just as the character in "The Invisible Man" was unable to find an antidote and restore what he had lost, Israel's slow disappearance from the region cannot now be reversed. Assurances, agreements, promises and documents will not be able to bring her back.

The West, having failed 60 years ago to save millions of Jews from the murderous ways of the Third Reich, will have new blood on its hands which history will not, and should not, allow it ever to wipe clean.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-09 16:58||   2005-08-09 16:58|| Front Page Top

#12 You may have to Google to get more details
:> Thanks! You don't know 'em do ya?

LOL! Same old PR.
I sense a little confusion.
Posted by Shipman 2005-08-09 17:54||   2005-08-09 17:54|| Front Page Top

#13 Ship,

That was below the belt man.

Here you go...skeptical grasshoppa

Peace
More Peace
A bit more Peace
A little bit more Peace
Absolute Peace
Nirvana


Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-09 18:22||   2005-08-09 18:22|| Front Page Top

#14 Good stuff PR.... but I'm still missing the debacle part... political debacle? I'll reread closer in the morning.
Posted by Shipman 2005-08-09 19:22||   2005-08-09 19:22|| Front Page Top

#15 yeah, that Golan debacle is set in the future, isn't it? Israel hasn't IIUC ceded any Golan strategic hts back, and in any vent, reserves the right to reduce Damascus to rubble. It's tougher when you face fish that swim in not-so-innocent-schools of "civilians" fodder
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2005-08-09 20:08||   2005-08-09 20:08|| Front Page Top

#16 Ship,

I didn't mean political debacle. But, the debacle created by the pullout. Hence, the constant shelling and exponential growth in Hizb rocket placement. I believe due to the pullout, there are about 10,000 to 30,000 rockets pointed at Israel which was never there before the pullout. This article was written in 2002, imagine how many rockets they have now. Not a total debacle yet, but the environment is rich for it to happen. Before the pullout, the situation was controlled. But, now sooner or later, Israel will forced to risk a great deal to get a handle on the threat when they could have been prevented in the first place by NOT pulling out.

My whole point in this, is not to play word games, but that Israel already tried the pullout experiment. Capitulation under the threat of terror is not answer. The Muslims have millions and millions acres of land all over. Why is that Israel is always the one that have to give up land?
Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-09 20:18||   2005-08-09 20:18|| Front Page Top

#17 because it was strategically and financially indefensible....
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2005-08-09 20:21||   2005-08-09 20:21|| Front Page Top

23:58 Jan
23:49 bigjim-ky
23:47 Chris W.
23:47 BigEd
23:45 BigEd
23:44 Poison Reverse
23:43 Chris W.
23:43 bigjim-ky
23:40 Alaska Paul
23:38 bigjim-ky
23:22 Pappy
23:16 Pappy
23:09 3dc
23:08 Pappy
23:00 jules 2
22:56 Sock Puppet 0’ Doom
22:54 Captain America
22:35 Sock Puppet 0’ Doom
22:26 Frank G
22:24 Sock Puppet 0’ Doom
22:11 Alaska Paul
21:55 Robert Crawford
21:39 Darrell
21:37 Old Patriot
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