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2005-05-28 Iraq-Jordan

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Posted by Steve White 2005-05-28 00:24|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [11129 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Wow...a reporter goes out with a bunch of asshat brass, and the brass gets pissed off because the soldiers in the field aren't doing things according to the book. This "reporter" can't get his lips unglued from officer ass.

Posted by gromky 2005-05-28 06:22|| 2005-05-28 06:22|| Front Page Top

#2 Ummm - gromky, it not the brass's ass that the lips are on. Close tho' ;)

Posted by Doc8404 2005-05-28 08:56|| 2005-05-28 08:56|| Front Page Top

#3 Gromky, this isn't a parade drill. It isn't a game, or a matter of boots not being polished. In this case "according to the book", the colonel wants to reduce the chance of troops getting killed because they aren't set up properly.

I don't know your background, but it appears you've never commanded troops, never been in combat, or had troops under your command wounded or killed.

This may sound a bit off-putting considering that we're just both names at RB, but in this case, would you kindly just shut the fuck up?

Posted by Pappy 2005-05-28 09:46|| 2005-05-28 09:46|| Front Page Top

#4 gromky: Wow...a reporter goes out with a bunch of asshat brass, and the brass gets pissed off because the soldiers in the field aren't doing things according to the book. This "reporter" can't get his lips unglued from officer ass.

The media's mantra - in line with its bias against higher-ups, especially in the military - is that the grunts know better than the brass. In reality, it's typically the other way around - the brass got where it is by *earning* it, by being more disciplined and smarter than the average grunt. It has been documented that basic issues get troops hurt - not wearing helmets, bunching up on patrol, not observing noise, light or litter discipline, following a repetitive schedule, route and routine while conducting patrols, etc. Beards for Special Forces troopers are one thing, but there's a lot of slackness, borne of either fatigue or habit, that needs to be ironed out to keep casualty numbers low.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-05-28 12:55|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-05-28 12:55|| Front Page Top

#5 You fight like you train.

And any shortage in training, later in combat, will be paid in blood.

Every good leader knows this. And if your troops are fatigued, you need to give them slack sometimes, other times you need to rachet down to buck them up. Its a judgement call. If they are sloppy becasue of repetitive duty (like the guard post cited), then you rachet down, and remind them the hard way that you expect them to perform to standards. This saves thier lives. If they are burnt because of combat, you loosen up for a while away from the line, with a deadline to get back to the book. THis keeps them from dulling the edge to where they cannot recover.

Seems the officers in this case were doing it that way. The real leadership in the US military comes from the Non-Coms (Sgts and Petty Officers) and guys wearing those railroad tracks (Army/USMC/USAF Captain, Navy Lt). Thats why our military does things few others can at a squad, platoon and company level - across the entire force (not just in spots).

The brass job is to make sure the front-line leaders have the tools and support to get their job done. This was illustrated in the article where it was the fault of the the BN Commander (in the rear with the gear apparently), not the company commander (who was in the field with his troops), to relieve and retrain that checkpoint.

Not saying the butkissing was any real journalism, but it is a view most civilians never have. They think "higher rank" = "more important" the way an editor is more important than his reporters. Doesnt work that way. At the Battalion level, its operations, administration and cultivation (of your leadership at lower ranks). At a company level, its Command and Control - and Ops.

Civilians dont get this which is why you get articles like the one here that seems to overhype the officers a bit.

Posted by OldSpook 2005-05-28 13:42|| 2005-05-28 13:42|| Front Page Top

#6 OS: Not saying the butkissing was any real journalism, but it is a view most civilians never have. They think "higher rank" = "more important" the way an editor is more important than his reporters. Doesnt work that way.

No offense, but it *does* work that way. This is why generals are discouraged from exposing themselves to physical danger - a general is far less dispensable than a light colonel. Generals don't inherit their jobs - Tommy Franks, for example, started out in the ranks - they start out as junior officers who then work their way up.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-05-28 14:39|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-05-28 14:39|| Front Page Top

#7 I agree with everything OS said..but I think people sometimes kid themselves with the idea that the high brass doesn't really matter all that much. Don't kid yourself. It does come from the top. The decisions made at the top affect everything all the way down. When a CO changes - everything changes underneath him for good or for bad, depending on the mood, tone and expectations s/he sets.

Posted by anon 2005-05-28 14:52|| 2005-05-28 14:52|| Front Page Top

#8 You fight like you train. And any shortage in training, later in combat, will be paid in blood.

Yes. Remember that KY national guard unit that rescued the ambushed convoy a few months ago? The young female NCO who joined the senior NCO in clearing out the trench of enemies who were firing RPGs etc.?

When she ran out of ammo she raced back to the nearest vehicle, stuck her hand in without looking and pulled out a replacement clip, then ran back into the trench.

She could do that because she and her senior NCO had drilled that squad, insisted that all vehicles be packed EXACTLY the same way. And the medic who manned the .50 cal gun was effective because those NCOs insisted that EVERY soldier in their unit stay current on skills and meet high standards.

That's what was missing at the checkpoint where the COL chewed ass. If these soldiers were burned out, it should be dealt with via a change in rotation and duties (as OS suggests - AWAY from that post) ... NOT by relaxing standards when they were pulling duty.

Meyers is the real thing, by the way. Easy to under-estimate, not a charismatic "look at me" leader .... but a fighter pilot with over 600 hours of COMBAT flying back in the day.

Posted by too true 2005-05-28 15:01|| 2005-05-28 15:01|| Front Page Top

#9 Hang in there Grom, singed my eyebrows too.

Posted by Shipman 2005-05-28 17:50|| 2005-05-28 17:50|| Front Page Top

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