Article

2006-05-13 Iraq

US tank falls off bridge into canal in Iraq, killing 4 Marines

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Posted by Steve White 2006-05-13 00:00|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [11131 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 A tragedy.

All of us who have served in armor can probably relate a tale or two about a night/tactical movement that resulted in a submerged/inverted track and 1 or more KIA.

The profession of arms is not an inherently safe profession.

Posted by N guard 2006-05-13 00:15|| 2006-05-13 00:15|| Front Page Top

#2 Track or Bridge failure???

Posted by JosephMendiola 2006-05-13 00:49|| 2006-05-13 00:49|| Front Page Top

#3 Having been in the loaders seat of an M1, I can tell you ther's dozens of ways to die there even in peace time. There are usaully s few fatalities every year, especially during the old Team Spirit exercises and Foal Eaglen (Terrain in Korea is just crap for tanks in many places). This is the fourth or fifth one of these I've heard in the Iraq theater of operations. God bless those tankers and speed them on their way.

Posted by Oldspook 2006-05-13 00:53|| 2006-05-13 00:53|| Front Page Top

#4 Managing a 70-ton M1A1 is a major challenge and these accidents happen on occasion. God Bless the brave Marines who perished.

Posted by Brett 2006-05-13 01:34|| 2006-05-13 01:34|| Front Page Top

#5 guessing, turned turtle..and blocked the hatches.

Posted by RD 2006-05-13 04:32|| 2006-05-13 04:32|| Front Page Top

#6 No floor emergency hatch?

Posted by Redneck Jim 2006-05-13 08:15|| 2006-05-13 08:15|| Front Page Top

#7 No floor emergency hatch?

Nope. A major design goof, IMAO.

The M-60s we used to have in the Guard in the 20th Century, did have a driver escape hatch in the floor. But the driver was the only one who could have gotten out in time. To leave the turret would require it being turned around backwards.

Posted by N guard 2006-05-13 09:34|| 2006-05-13 09:34|| Front Page Top

#8 Eternal Father, grant, we pray,
To all Marines, both night and day,
The courage, honor, strength, and skill
Their land to serve, thy law fulfill;
Be thou the shield forevermore
From every peril to the Corps.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2006-05-13 09:39|| 2006-05-13 09:39|| Front Page Top

#9 Was this likely to have been an M1, or some other armored vehicle which the reporter is misidentifying as a tank? I didn't think the Marine Corps had M1s, I thought they were all in the Army. Also, isn't the M1 a three-man crew? I am not a military expert and I am not claiming to be one, so please be gentle with me if I'm completely off base.

Posted by WhiteCollarRedneck 2006-05-13 11:29|| 2006-05-13 11:29|| Front Page Top

#10 I heard the M60 bottom hatch was great if you had to take a whiz while buttoned up.

Posted by Oldspook 2006-05-13 11:57|| 2006-05-13 11:57|| Front Page Top

#11 Re #9: The Marines have had the M1 and its variants since Gulf War I. The current variants of the M1 have four man crews, though there is a variant (only on the drawing board, I think) that has an automated turret and three man crew. God be with the families of the fallen.

Posted by djh_usmc 2006-05-13 12:15|| 2006-05-13 12:15|| Front Page Top

#12 They'll never go with the 3 man crew. You can't maintain a tank in the field with a crew of 3. That was the downfall of the old Soviet designs with the autoloader. Plus when it breaks you're hosed, and its yet another piece of gear to be maintained (one that has a lot of motion and hard mechanical wear).

Not a good idea. Driver, gunner, loader and TC. Ya need them all.

Posted by Oldspook 2006-05-13 12:52|| 2006-05-13 12:52|| Front Page Top

#13 Re: #10
Not realy. It was hard to get to, difficult to open, even more difficult to secure. you had to move the driver's seat, and only the driver could realy use it. At the range at summer camp, I just used a piss bottle, and tossed it out the top hach with the rest of the trash at the first opportunity.

The M60, like the M1, has a basket under the turret. betwen the supports for the basket, and the ready ammo storage tubes in the turret(!) (No blow-out ammo compartment in case of ammo fire!) you could only get to the driver's position from the turret when the turret was traversed to certain positons. I cannot recall the mil numbers that the turret had to be traversed to. It's been a while.

Having served in both tracks, I understand why they omitted an escape hatch. Positioning it and utilizing it would be even harder in an M-1. For the other (non-armor) rantburgers out there, the M-1 hull and turret is crammed full of machinery. the four crew members positions are almost form-fitting sockets. Moving around inside the hull is not something you do quickly and easily. And that is with the hull upright, not full of water, and with lots of daylight coming in thru all the open hatches.

Posted by N guard 2006-05-13 13:36|| 2006-05-13 13:36|| Front Page Top

#14 Agreed NGaurd - that loaders seat is claustro with the knee switch, amo bin , bore, breech and light panel being the only things you end up remembering after you spend time in there. The size of a small closet. That and how damn sore my back got.

Hear the TC and gunner GunnerAntennaTankRIGHTFRONTgotit sabot Smack kneeswitch grab round put in bore punch fwd with fist no fingers if you dont want to lose em slam breech shut lock it check light yell round type UP get your arms back across your chest if you want to keem them in one piece and let off the knee switch too hear ON THE WAY BOOOOM...

And repeat.

And pray the driver didnt have a bad MRE because his gas is coming straight back to you.

Posted by Oldspook 2006-05-13 14:20|| 2006-05-13 14:20|| Front Page Top

#15 Lots of ways to get killed in a tank that don't include enemy fire. Bless the men that choose armor as a way of life.

When I was an armor crewman in Germany in 1979 (Oh God... is it so long ago?) we hit a cross-country electric train power line with our antenna. Spark jumped to the ready rack in the turret and two rounds blew up. Fortunately, the loader caught most of the flame/shrapnel in the ass ('cause he was facing forward in the turret (fortunately the turret wasn't in travel-lock or he'd a been facing the ready rack and caught the full force of the explosion to his crotch.) The TC caught some of shrapnel in his legs too. I was sleeping (face into a blanket) in the gunners position and woke up to a turret full of flames and smoke. Tunnel-vision escape time! I was up the commanders hatch, down to the sponson boxes, down the ground (injured knee on that jumpl), and 100 feet away from the tank before I looked back. The TC was standing in front of the tank yelling for me to "Get out!" (I was already gone.)

Spent two weeks in the hospital in Nurnburg recovering from from the burns to my face. Looking at my scortched uniform later... I can hardly believe that they didn't catch fire.

It's a dangerous profession. You're the biggest, toughest target on the battlefield and the tank itself is an unforgiving beast.

Posted by Leigh 2006-05-13 15:22|| 2006-05-13 15:22|| Front Page Top

#16

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Posted by Slereck Slairt1837 2006-05-13 15:25|| 2006-05-13 15:25|| Front Page Top

#17 Clean up in aisle #16

Posted by RD 2006-05-13 19:16|| 2006-05-13 19:16|| Front Page Top

#18 God bless them and their families. After reading the comments its clear rantburgers understand the dangers our men and women face in the profession of defending our freedoms, seeing how most have been there and done that. Thanks to you old dogs as well.

NSDQ

Posted by 49 Pan">49 Pan 2006-05-13 21:39|| 2006-05-13 21:39|| Front Page Top

#19 Mod, Thanks for the sink trap. He deserves a good bitch slap.

Posted by 49 Pan">49 Pan 2006-05-13 21:41|| 2006-05-13 21:41|| Front Page Top

#20 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]

Posted by Slereck Slairt1837 2006-05-13 15:25|| 2006-05-13 15:25|| Front Page Top

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