Article

2005-03-31 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

Russia rebuilding Kirov class battlecruiser

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Dar 2005-03-31 10:05:14 AM|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [11140 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 It's still a death-trap for all who sail in her, should she ever be in harm's way.

Posted by Unumble Whaimp6886 2005-03-31 10:24:16 AM|| 2005-03-31 10:24:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I think the Russians refer to ships as "he" or "him".

I'm curious what happened to the other two: Admiral Ushakov (ex-Kirov) and Admiral Lazarev (ex-Frunze). Scrapped or simply rusting away somewhere? I don't imagine they were sold...

Admiral Nakhimov is the ex-Kalinin and Pyotr Veikhiy is the ex-Yuri Andropov (LOL!).

Posted by Dar 2005-03-31 10:39:44 AM|| 2005-03-31 10:39:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Ah--just had to keep looking:

Ushakov has been inactive in Murmansk since a propulsion accident in late 1990 but has been kept in good condition. These ships are expensive to man and maintain and spend little time at sea. Lazarev, which is due for a refit, may have been scrapped in 1995.

Also of note:

These are the largest surface warships, apart from aircraft carriers, to have been built since the Second World War...

Posted by Dar 2005-03-31 10:43:30 AM|| 2005-03-31 10:43:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 I toured a russian cruiser in the black sea back in Sep. '96. We were up there for the 300th anniversary of the russian navy. One of the biggest things I noticed lacking was DC gear. It was nowhere to be seen. Go on a western ship and every inch available is storing some kind of DC gear.

The officers had to pretty much do anything that required thought. The enlisted were all conscripts and not motivated or educated enough to run the equipment. They told us that the captain had to stay on the bridge as long as the ship was U/W - to the point of sleeping on the bridge. I thought that was a bad idea - poor judgement from fatigue.

That was almost 10 yrs ago but I doubt not much has changed. I wasn't impressed and came away with no doubt they would not be an effective fighting force.

Posted by Yosemite Sam 2005-03-31 11:30:18 AM|| 2005-03-31 11:30:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 When does the bidding war between China and India start?

Posted by Chuck Simmins 2005-03-31 11:45:27 AM|| [http://blog.simmins.org] 2005-03-31 11:45:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Chuck,

If a Kirov is the model from which the Chinese and Indians are going to build, I say we buy two and give them to both parties free of cost.

Posted by Dreadnought 2005-03-31 12:06:12 PM|| 2005-03-31 12:06:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 I say we help the Russians sell the Kirovs to the Chinese at a low cost and give the Indians some of our surface ships.

Posted by mmurray821 2005-03-31 12:13:09 PM|| 2005-03-31 12:13:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Lazarev, which is due for a refit, may have been scrapped in 1995.

"May have"? Don't these guys know what's the status of their own heavy hardware?

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2005-03-31 12:17:31 PM|| 2005-03-31 12:17:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Yosemite Sam

What is DC gear?

Posted by JFM 2005-03-31 2:09:31 PM|| 2005-03-31 2:09:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Damage control. The ability to keep the ship afloat after it runs into a missile/torpedo/ mine/UN resolution.

Posted by Dreadnought 2005-03-31 2:54:26 PM|| 2005-03-31 2:54:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 I think I remember reading that both the Lexington at Coral Sea and the Yorktown at Midway could have been saved if damage control had been half as good as it was later in the war. Also, it always seemed as if American carriers were able to take a lot more punishement than the Japanese ones while on paper they were just as vulnerable.

In the Falklands, the loss of several British ships was directly linked to poor DC.

DC can really make the difference in the outcome of a battle.

And the Russians were supposed to go to war with minimal DC? Interesting concept.

Posted by JFM 2005-03-31 3:51:52 PM|| 2005-03-31 3:51:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Maybe the Russians plan on using duct tape...

Posted by mmurray821 2005-03-31 4:45:58 PM|| 2005-03-31 4:45:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 or duck tape.....

Posted by Frank G 2005-03-31 4:51:17 PM|| 2005-03-31 4:51:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Takes me back to the months I wasted playing "Harpoon" back in the early '90s...

Posted by Captain Pedantic 2005-03-31 5:23:47 PM|| 2005-03-31 5:23:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Months? Weakling. :)

Posted by Shipman 2005-03-31 6:18:13 PM|| 2005-03-31 6:18:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Sam,

That reminds me of a story (perhaps legend) that circulated in the submarine force in the late '80's. Back then, doctrine for attacking a Moskva carrier was to use two MK-48 torpedos. Admiral Crowe - Chariman of the Joint Chiefs in the Perestroika/Glasnost era - was invited to visit the Russian Northern (?) fleet. He toured a Moskva carrier. When Crowe, a submariner, returned, he changed the doctrine overnight. From now on, only one '48 for the Moskva. Why? A lack of DC equipment and poor water-tight compartmenalization. Torpedos are expensive after all. An admiral is a sailor is a spy. LOL.

Posted by Zpaz 2005-03-31 10:18:27 PM|| 2005-03-31 10:18:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 I the Soviet doctrine was to get close (preferably during "peacetime"), then launch everything you have to try to swamp the defenses. After that, who cares about the now weaponless ship, or the people on board her? Kind of the same way their ground units were to be "expended" in combat.

Or maybe not.

Posted by jackal 2005-03-31 10:43:09 PM|| [http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html] 2005-03-31 10:43:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Damage control. The ability to keep the ship afloat after it runs into a missile/torpedo/ mine/UN resolution.

Funny...thought I might have run over a UN resolution this morning on my way to work. Either that, or a 'possum. I'd feel bad if it were a 'possum.

Posted by Darth VAda 2005-03-31 10:48:14 PM|| 2005-03-31 10:48:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 cool note zpaz :-)

Posted by Frank G 2005-03-31 11:19:56 PM|| 2005-03-31 11:19:56 PM|| Front Page Top

22:41 CrazyFool
22:41 CrazyFool
23:51 Canuck
23:46 3dc
23:19 Frank G
23:15 CrazyFool
23:14 Zhang Fei
23:07 CrazyFool
23:03 Bobby
22:58 jackal
22:56 Bobby
22:55 anymouse
22:54 Bobby
22:48 Darth VAda
22:43 jackal
22:42 .com
22:37 RWV
22:36 Uleque Hupains4886
22:36 jackal
22:33 jackal
22:29 jackal
22:18 Zpaz
22:17 Asedwich
22:17 Darth VAda
Merry-Go-Blog