Warning: Undefined array key "rbname" in /data/rantburg.com/www/pgrecentorg.php on line 14
Hello !

Home Front: WoT

Fair jury hard to find for sugar rocket smuggler terror suspect

2009-03-16

Youssef Megahed is not charged with terrorism. But whether the Egyptian citizen was a potential terrorist or just an innocent college student has been a central question since his arrest in South Carolina in 2007, when deputies said he and Ahmed Mohamed had pipe bombs in the trunk of their car. What's 'innocent' about a pipe bomb? Today, a federal judge will begin seating a jury to decide whether Megahed, a 23-year-old former University of South Florida student, is guilty of transporting explosives and possession of a destructive device. Although passions have subsided since the Sept. 11 attacks, experts say it will still be a challenge to find a jury that can fairly judge a Muslim defendant. "There is so much prejudice toward Muslims still," said Neil Vidmar, a Duke Law School professor who served as a defense jury expert in the case of former USF professor Sami Al-Arian, who was accused of leading a U.S. cell of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. And the prejudice towards people with pipe bombs is really amazing ... "Ever since Al-Arian, I would never say you can't get a fair jury in Tampa Bay because we did," said Kevin Beck, who represented an Al-Arian codefendant in their 2005 trial, which ended with acquittals on numerous charges and deadlocked jurors on others but no convictions. (Al-Arian later pleaded guilty to a charge of conspiring to help terrorists.) But Beck said he's concerned it may be more difficult for Megahed's defense to find an impartial jury because the jury selection process won't be as thorough as it was in Al-Arian's case. "I feel that they should be afforded a greater opportunity to question potential jurors than they'll necessarily get," he said. You're not entitled to a jury that is most favorably predisposed towards you; you're entitled to a fair jury, and a good judge can settle that in a non-capital case in a day. In Al-Arian's case, potential jurors were given detailed questionnaires probing opinions about the case, the Middle East and religion. Candidates were then questioned in small groups by the judge and attorneys. U.S. District Judge Steven D. Merryday has denied defense motions for questionnaires in the Megahed case and may conduct all or most of the questioning himself with larger groups. Good for him. That's just what a judge is supposed to do. "I think jurors tend to cower to a degree when a judge is doing the questioning," Beck said. "I think there is a significant group of people that will try to please the judge." Prejudice is "a heavy hurdle to overcome," said Edward J. Bronson, a retired law professor and jury expert. "It's not that people don't honestly think they can be fair and impartial, and really believe they can be fair and impartial. ... It's just the way people are." So we should just let the pipe-bombers go ... Some of the potential jurors discarded in the Al-Arian case expressed extreme hatred toward Muslims in their questionnaires, Bronson noted. A few said they were afraid to serve because they worried terrorists might target them if they voted to convict. Defendants can overcome prejudices, "But that's not the way our system's supposed to work," Bronson said. "You shouldn't go into trial having to overcome a story model that prospective jurors have developed that the defendant is guilty and the burden shifts to the defense to prove that he isn't." Notice that the jurors who were most prejudiced were .. not allowed to serve. Seems to me that the system worked. Megahed, whose family has lived in the United States for 11 years, was a USF student when he and Mohamed were pulled over in South Carolina in August 2007. Deputies said they found explosives in the car's trunk - PVC pipes stuffed with kitty litter, corn syrup and stump remover. Also in the car were items such as a partially filled can of gasoline, a safety fuse and .22-caliber bullets. The FBI determined the substance in the pipes was a "low explosive" pyrotechnic mixture. Prosecutors contend the devices could have been modified to something more serious. Sure could have. Sounds like they were experimenting ... Investigators also found Mohamed's laptop computer and a YouTube video he made showing "martyrs" how to use remote-controlled toys to detonate bombs. Deputies said they saw Megahed, the passenger, disconnect wires from the laptop and throw them into the back seat. Minutes before the stop, someone used the laptop to view a video of rockets being fired. Mohamed, also an Egyptian studying at USF, said he posted the YouTube video hoping it would help martyrs harm U.S. troops overseas. He pleaded guilty to helping terrorists and is serving 15 years in federal prison. Megahed has not been linked to the YouTube video, although prosecutors have said they want to show it at his trial. Merryday has said he will not allow that. Megahed's attorneys will fight to keep the specter of terrorism out of the courtroom and to keep jurors focused on deciding whether the trunk's contents meet the legal definition of explosives or destructive devices. Bolstered by the FBI report, the defense maintains the contents could not have exploded and, at worst, could have spewed smoke if ignited. In the portrait that has emerged from the defense, Megahed and Mohamed were college buddies on a road trip to visit beaches with homemade fireworks, or "sugar rockets," to celebrate Mohamed's birthday. The defense says they were stopped by racist deputies who saw Arabic letters on a book and concluded the men were terrorists. Megahed maintains he was unaware of Mohamed's terrorist support. "No, no, certainly not!" The prosecution describes two would-be terrorists who were stopped by quick-thinking deputies. To prove intent, prosecutors want to introduce evidence, including videos on Mohamed's laptop, suggesting Megahed was interested in violence against Americans. They also want to show that someone using the Megahed family computer did online searches, viewing information about improvised explosive devices and car bombs two months before the arrest. "I think the really interesting thing," Beck said, "is going to be how Judge Merryday necessarily controls ... the government's efforts to turn this into a quasi- or mini-terrorism case.

Link

Home Front: WoT

15 years for Ahmed Mohamed

2008-12-19

TAMPA - The YouTube video was on the Internet only a few days but was viewed nearly 800 times before the Web site operators saw it and took it down, prosecutors said. "There's no way to know how far it went, to whom and what they did with it," said Assistant U.S. Attorney Jay Hoffer. In the video, Ahmed Mohamed, then a student at the University of South Florida, showed how to modify a plastic toy car so it could be used to remotely set off a bomb. The idea, Mohamed has admitted, was to target "infidels," including American troops overseas, without "martyrs" having to sacrifice their lives. For that, Mohamed was sentenced today to 15 years in federal prison, the maximum allowed under the law for the charge he pleaded guilty to, providing material support to terrorists. The video was shown in court today, its first public display since Mohamed was arrested Aug. 4, 2007, in South Carolina, along with fellow student, Youssef Megahed, after deputies found what prosecutors say was explosive materials in the trunk of their car. Megahed, who has not been implicated in the Youtube video, is awaiting trial on charges of transporting explosives. Mohamed's attorneys argued there was no evidence that anyone ever viewed the video and took action as a result, that there were no identified victims of this crime. "I admit that the video was something that was not a wise idea," Mohamed said in a statement read by his attorney, Lyann Goudie, before he was sentenced. "I do apologize because I never intended to harm anybody in particular I am convinced that I have learned a lesson I am no more than a college guy." Pssssst...Ahmed. Big smile for the judge. Mohamed, 27, asked U.S. District Judge Steven D. Merryday to show leniency, to allow him to go on to lead a good life and one day have children. Mohamed, who is from Egypt, hung his head low as Merryday sentenced him. "I hear no contrition that I find convincing," the judge said. "His objective was to cause others to have the knowledge needed to do damage including death to persons in the service of the United States," the judge said. Defense attorneys portrayed Mohamed as leading an otherwise exemplary life. His background was so clean, said lawyer Linda Moreno, that he worked for American companies in Cairo, including Haliburton. Wouldn't that prove how...evil he is? "While it's a terrible video, and it's a horrible video, in the context of what's happening in the world and in the context of what's happening in the Middle East, I can ask the court to consider it from that point of view," Moreno said. We did. Fifteen years. Buh bye. Mohamed used USF equipment at night, when no one else was around, to upload the video onto the Web site, said Assistant U.S. Attorney Robert Monk, who said Mohamed "embraces a violent and extreme ideology" and "has a particular dislike of Americans." Monk said Mohamed has said, "Americans are pigs. Americans are easy to deceive. Americans are scum." Well... not that easy. Mohamed told an FBI agent, "You don't understand, you have made me a hero." He also said, "Americans are more stupid than pigs, and you cannot deny this." Might wanna learn to squeal like a pig, Ahmed. It'll make you popular with the stupid Americans who will be your new "friends". According to Monk, Mohamed said, "It is the wish of every Muslim to die at the hands of the invaders, and he will get credit for this when he dies." Don't worry. There's still a pretty good chance that wish could come true. Monk read from letters Mohamed wrote from jail to his parents and another person where he talked about the Muslim religion taking over the world. The defense asked for an eight-year sentence, saying Mohamed has been mistreated while in the Falkenberg Road Jail awaiting disposition of his case. They said he was tortured in Egypt when he was imprisoned for four months without charges for donating money to the Red Crescent. Geez, nobody likes this guy... Goudie appealed to the judge's sense of fairness. The defense attorney said her son is in the military and served two tours of duty in Iraq, during the initial invasion in 2003 and then in 2005 until September 2006. She said she told her son before he went, "Remember when you're putting on that uniform that you're representing the United States of America." She said she urged him not to "ever think it's proper to stoop down to anybody else's level. Remember that you're an American and that you're fair and you're just." I'll translate: I...got nuthin your honor. The judge concluded Mohamed was a true adherent of his extreme religious beliefs. Such a view, he said, is not changeable through rehabilitation. Trying to persuade someone to change that viewpoint wouldn't be considered rehabilitative, the judge said. "It would be apostasy." Heh heh heh. Looks like that one came back to bite you in the ass, Ahmed.

Link

Home Front: WoT

Mohamed Lawyers Argue For Shorter Sentence

2008-12-18

Remember the "Fireworks Boys"? TAMPA - Defense attorneys for a 27-year-old Egyptian man who pleaded guilty to trying to help terrorists are asking a judge to sentence him to eight years in prison, not the 15-year-term being requested by prosecutors. Ahmed Mohamed, a former student at the University of South Florida, is scheduled to be sentenced Thursday by U.S. District Judge Steven D. Merryday for posting a video on the Web site YouTube in which he demonstrates how to use a remote-control toy to detonate a bomb. The purpose of the video, Mohamed has said, was to help "martyrs" who target U.S. forces overseas. In a sentencing memorandum, defense attorneys maintain Mohamed should be spared an excessively long prison sentence, partly because there is "no evidence that anyone actually used the information that he produced to harm any American or any other person. There is no evidence of any victims of this crime." Hmmmmmm. Too bad he copped that guilty plea. Kinda complicates things. Prosecutors, in a memo submitted to the court last month, maintained that Mohamed came to this country to gather information about explosives "to cause harm within this country." Mohamed was arrested, along with his friend, Youssef Megahed, last year in South Carolina after deputies there said they found explosives in the trunk of their car. Megahed is still awaiting trial on charges of illegally transporting explosives. Mohamed's attorneys, Linda Moreno and Lyann Goudie, also say in their memorandum that Mohamed has been subject to abuse while in jail pending prosecution. Mohamed has been repeatedly strip-searched and not allowed to cover himself, they write. "His cell has been routinely searched and property tossed in greater numbers than those of other inmates. When he has been returned to his cell, his personal belongings are often arranged in the form of a cross. His religion has been demeaned, with the guards taunting profanities at Allah, the Islamic word for God. His Koran was often thrown on the floor and his prayer sheets tossed in the toilet. Aw, geez. Not the Koran shit... When he attempted to pray during his rare recreation time, he was physically prevented from doing so and his privileges were terminated, including the elimination of recreation time altogether. He was repeatedly humiliated and disrespected. How do they know this? He told them. "This adverse treatment has caused him psychological harm and prompted defense counsel to assistance from the United States Attorney to relocate him to a more humane facility," the attorneys added. "As a result of such inhumane and debilitating treatment, counsel has observed Mr. Mohamed's physical health deteriorate. From the time of his arrest, to the first meeting with defense counsel, Mr. Mohamed had lost over 40 pounds. Mr. Mohamed had also been placed on suicide watch while housed at the local detention facility as a result of his noted depression." The prosecution memo says Mohamed has lashed out at corrections officials: "The coldest statement of this defendant and the most telling as to his hatred and disdain for the United States came in a hand-written letter which the defendant sent to a Hillsborough County jail deputy on April 1, 2008. In that letter, which he signed, the defendant 'congratulated' the jail deputy upon the fact that the Pentagon had recently announced the death of more than 4,000 U.S. troops in the Middle East." The defense attorneys argue that Mohamed will serve his federal prison sentence under harsh conditions. "Mr. Mohamed will face a stark existence with long term psychological effects," they write. "He will be kept in virtual isolation, 23 hours each day, and denied any meaningful contact with his family and the outside world, except an occasional visit with his lawyers. Correspondence by mail will be greatly restricted due to the government's administrative review procedures." Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Sounds like...prison. They maintain that such isolation has been documented to psychologically damage inmates.

Link

Home Front: WoT

Mohamed to plead guilty to providing support to terrorists

2008-06-14

TAMPA -- Former University of South Florida student Ahmed Mohamed has agreed to plead guilty to a federal charge of providing material support to terrorists, according to an agreement filed in Tampa federal court today. Mohamed, 26, faces up to 15 years in prison. A sentencing date has not been set. "This plea agreement was at the request of our client after a very long and agonizing decision by both him and his family, and it was his decision to resolve this matter through this plea," said Linda Moreno, one of Mohamed's defense attorneys. Got him cold, did they? Mohamed was arrested Aug. 4 near Goose Creek, S.C., with Youssef Megahed, 22, another former USF student. A sheriff's deputy stopped the men for speeding and searched their car when he became suspicious. He found what prosecutors said were low-grade explosives in the trunk. A federal grand jury in Tampa indicted both men for illegally transporting explosive material across state lines. Mohamed faced additional, more serious, charges that included accusations of violating his student visa by possessing a firearm, demonstrating how to make an explosive device through a YouTube video and providing material support to terrorists. Moreno said the plea agreement calls for those charges to be dismissed at the time of sentencing. Mohamed has been in custody since his arrest.

Link

Home Front: WoT

Third Goose Creek Attack Suspect Arrested

2007-12-16

TAMPA - A University of South Florida student has been arrested on a weapons charge in connection with a case against two other students accused of transporting explosives. Karim Moussaoui, 28, went to a shooting range with the two other students, Youssef Megahed and Ahmed Mohamed, on July 11, according to a complaint filed in U.S. District Court. Moussaoui told the FBI he took pictures and didn't fire any weapons, the complaint states. Moussaoui, you say? Hmmm. On that date, Megahed signed a membership agreement and rented a Glock 17, which is a 9 mm handgun, at the Shoot Straight Gun and Archery Range at 3909 N. U.S. 301, the complaint states. Duck. Moussaoui and others are shown entering the range eight days later on a surveillance video the Shoot Straight provided to the FBI, according to the complaint. Agents searching a computer found in Megahed's home found pictures of Moussaoui "standing at a firing lane possessing a shoulder-fired weapon and wearing the type of hearing protection shooters use at a shooting range." Duck. Federal authorities have charged the international student with "possession or receiving of a firearm by a person admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa." Goose Creek. "We've known since the summer they were interested in this person," said USF spokesman Ken Gullette, referring to Moussaoui. Moussaoui is from Morocco and has been living in a campus residence hall and studying computer engineering, Gullette said. He was scheduled to be awarded his undergraduate degree Saturday. His parents arrived Wednesday from Morocco to attend his graduation. At today's hearing, they signed a $50,000 signature bond for his release. Moussaoui surrendered his passport and travel documents. The defendant was told he must vacate campus housing within two weeks of graduation. He must then find an apartment with a phone and begin serving house arrest and wear an ankle monitor. Until then, he must have daily phone contact with pretrial services. Moussaoui's attorney, Stephen Crawford, said the student was awakened this morning in his dorm room and arrested. His client was scheduled to take his last final exam at 1 p.m. today but will miss the class, he said. Crawford said the defendant comes from a prominent family of engineers and developers in Morocco.

Link

Home Front: WoT

Honest guys, they were only homemade bottle rockets.

2007-12-03

Accused USF Student: Explosives Harmless TAMPA | A University of South Florida student charged with trying to aid terrorists said the explosives found in his possession were just fireworks that could only travel a few feet in the air, according to a court filing. Ahmed Mohamed, an Egyptian national, said he made the fireworks, called "sugar rockets," because it was cheaper than buying them at a roadside stand, the defense filing said. Doesn't pass the 'sniff test' around here. If you live in Chicago /NW Indiana, you've seen the billboards for 'Krazy Kaplan's' fireworks emporium -- buy one, get six free. Why on earth would I make my own? Mohamed and Youssef Megahed were arrested in South Carolina in early August after deputies found what they described as pipe bombs in the car driven by Mohamed. The men were charged in a federal indictment with illegally transporting explosives. Although it is cheaper to make your own pipe bomb than to buy one, since you can't legally buy a pipe bomb. Mohamed was also charged with trying to aid terrorists by demonstrating the use of explosives in a video posted to the Web site YouTube. Prosecutors said Mohamed showed how to use a remote-controlled toy to detonate a bomb in the video. Mohamed told investigators that he became interested in fireworks just before July 4 when he noticed their availability as part of the holiday celebrations, public defender Adam Allen wrote. Mohamed told authorities the devices "did not explode, but traveled a few feet into the air and would make smoke." Mohamed said he went to YouTube to learn how to make the sugar rockets, and had ignited them before his arrest. Allen filed a petition Friday for reconsideration of the decision by U.S. District Judge Steven D. Merryday to deny a separate trial. The trial is set for March.

Link

Home Front: WoT

Judge Nixes Megahed Bail Bid

2007-10-30

TAMPA - A University of South Florida student charged with transporting explosives will not be released on bail, a federal judge ruled Thursday. In ruling that Youssef Megahed poses a flight risk and a danger to the community, Judge Steven D. Merryday overturned a Sept. 14 ruling by federal Magistrate Elizabeth Jenkins, who said the defendant could be released on $200,000 bail under strict conditions. Merryday wrote in a 25-page ruling that no conditions would stop Megahed if he "wants to blow something up or cause a disturbance. ... I am unwilling at the prospective cost of property damage, injury or death to assume he will not do so." My gawd, common sense from the bench. How long before the leftie lawyer groups take aim? Megahed's attorney, public defender Adam Allen, said, "We respect the court's ruling but are disappointed. We are going to review our options, including the possibility of an appeal." Megahed, 21, was arrested Aug. 4 in South Carolina along with fellow USF student Ahmed Mohamed, 26, after deputies found explosives in the trunk of the car in which the two men were riding, authorities said. Mohamed was driving the care, which was registered to Megahed's brother. Mohamed has waived his right to a bail hearing. Both defendants are Egyptian nationals. Megahed is a legal, permanent U.S. resident, and Mohamed has a student visa. So the flight risk is about 99%. Both are charged with illegally transporting explosives. Mohamed also is charged with trying to help terrorists by teaching or demonstrating the use of explosives. Authorities say Mohamed posted a video to the Web site YouTube in which he showed how to use a remote-controlled toy to detonate a bomb. "The evidence fails to establish or even suggest any innocent or wholesome explanation for the events that led to Megahed's arrest," Merryday wrote. "Guns, explosives, fuses, canisters of gasoline, ammunition, welding equipment, GPS devices, all-night interstate drives to an unstated and indeterminate destination, stops to check gun prices and availability, and computers with a recent history of visits to sites that feature the advocates and the means of violence are not attributes that a disinterested but cautious observer associates with a safe and tranquil citizen of the community," the judge said. "Rather, a person about whom these attributes are discovered is a person whose means, motive and degree of determination are unknown and unpredictable and who is highly suspicious and threatening." More common sense! Merryday also concluded Megahed does not have strong ties to the community. Noting the defendant moved to the United States about 10 years ago and to Tampa four years ago, the judge listed Megahed's different residences and the fact that he and his family live in a rental home. "Only since 2007 has Megahed begun employment, first (and only briefly) at an automobile dealership and afterward at a mental health service as a $10-per-hour 'technician.' '' So how did he survive for nine years in the US? Who's got the bankroll? The judge said Megahed has a $3,000 balance in his checking account, but his parents do not require him to contribute to household expenses. "Neither Megahed's father nor his mother works outside the home, but the family enjoys substantial business ties and interests in Egypt." So why does he get a public defender? Merryday said he gave little or no weight in making his decision to a video the prosecution offered of Megahed's brother, Yahia, making faces and gestures when he had gone to visit his brother in jail. The defense said Yahia Megahed was aping for a camera while he waited for his brother, who was in his cell and unable to view him at the time. We'll make faces at him, too, when he finally comes to the dock for whatever scheme he's planning now, and you know he is. The judge also said he didn't consider the fact that investigators found a remote-controlled toy boat in the Megahed home. "I find none of these matters compelling or deserving of weight in considering Megahed's detention (although the Falkenburg video is mightily peculiar and the remote control toy is a provocative coincidence)," the judge wrote.

Link

Home Front: WoT

What was in the trunk

2007-09-15

HT Michelle Malkin. Don't look like "fireworks" to me... TAMPA -- PVC pipe filled with homemade "low-grade explosive mixture'' and a videotape instruction for turning a remote-controlled toy car into a detonator were among the items found in the car driven by two University of South Florida students arrested in South Carolina and now facing federal explosives charges, according to a federal prosecutor. A judge set bail at $200,000 for one of the defendants, Youssef Megahed, but the government immediately appealed, which means Megahed will remain in custody. Earlier in the court hearing Friday, an assistant U.S attorney outlined the evidence confiscated from the car driven by Megahed and another suspended USF student -- describing a container and three pipes filled with a low-grade explosive mixture. The list also included a videotape that instructs viewers on how to convert a toy electric car into a detonator. Defendant Ahmed Mohamed has admitted making the tape, and in it he says he intended the instruction "to save one who wants to be a martyr for another battle,'' said federal prosecutor Jay Hoffer. Hoffer told a federal magistrate today that the government believed Youssef Megahed should be detained because he is a danger to the community and a flight risk. He itemized what South Carolina authorities found in the trunk of a car he and Mohamed were driving that concerned them. Those items included: three pieces of PVC piping that were filled with a mixture of potassium nitrate, Karo syrup and cat litter. Federal authorities called it a potassium nitrate low-grade explosive mixture, and said they also found more of that mixture in a separate container in the trunk. Additionally they found an electric drill, a box of .22 caliber bullets, a five gallon container filled with gasoline and 23 feet of safety fuse. FBI analysts said the explosive mixture met the definition for a low-grade explosive. Hoffer said many of the items had been purchased locally, in and around Tampa, by Mohamed. They also found a laptop computer in the men's car. On the laptop they found a 12-minute video on which a man shows how to turn a radio-controlled toy car into a remote-controlled detonator, Hoffer said. Jackpot... Mohamed admits that it is him in the video, although you cannot see his face, Hoffer said. In the video, Mohamed said that he was showing how to make such a device "to save one who wants to be a martyr for another battle,'' Hoffer said. Mohamed also makes reference to a toy boat in the video. The FBI seized a toy remote controlled boat in a box from Megahed's home. Megahed also purchased a .22 caliber rifle in mid-July. The FBI found it in a storage shed, Hoffer said. Hoffer also detailed for the judge why he believed Megahed is a flight risk. FBI agents saw, but did not seize, two Egyptian passports that appeared to belong to Megahed. Hoffer sad they both had pictures of Megahed, but one had a different family name. U.S. Magistrate Judge Elizabeth Jenkins asked why they didn't seize them, and Hoffer said the FBI made that decision because it was a consent search, and they didn't have a warrant. He also said Megahed was denied naturalization on in March 2006, because he too frequently traveled back to Egypt. Between 1998 and 2003, he spent more than 1,600 days in Egypt, he said. When authorities arrested him in South Carolina, he had a photocopy of an immigration green card, but no passport. Authorities said he also has traveled to Saudi Arabia, Nigeria and Canada, and that his family has substantial business ties in Egypt. On July 29th, the defendant and his brother went to Sears and got passport sized portraits made. Hoffer said the government saw no reason why they would have a need for these photos. If the defendant was able to return to Egypt while on bond, Hoffer said, the U.S. government would have a hard time getting him back to this country, because Egypt does not extradite its nationals."It may be very hard, if not impossible, to extradite him back to the Middle District of Florida,'' he said. Mohamed has waived his right to a detention hearing. Mohamed's attorney, Lionel Lofton, said he didn't believe his client would be allowed bail, so he thought there was no point in having the hearing today for Mohamed. "He has absolutely no ties to the United States or to this community," Lofton said. He also didn't think it was necessary to use the hearing to get more information about the evidence against his client. That's because he met with prosecutors on Thursday night to discuss the case. He declined to talk about his meeting with prosecutors, saying that he has not been formally retained by the Egyptian embassy, which is helping Mohamed find legal representation. It's unclear whether he will be retained. He is preparing a budget for this case to present to embassy officials. He said the case would be "extremely expensive." Yeah. Sounds like it. Heh heh heh...

Link

Warning: Undefined property: stdClass::$T in /data/rantburg.com/www/pgrecentorg.php on line 132
-8 More