Omar al-Bashir, the president of Sudan, has said there is no humanitarian crisis in Darfur and that less than 9,000 people had been killed there during the four years of conflict. He disputed the findings of latest reports on the situation in the region, rejected talk of genocide and said violence stemmed from tribal tensions and drought.
A UN report published on Monday described the humanitarian situation in Darfur as the worst in two years. The UN estimates at least 200,000 people have died from the combined effect of war and famine since the fighting erupted in February 2003. Some sources say the toll is much higher.
Beshir said via a video media conference on Monday: "The figure of 200,000 dead is false and the number of dead is not even 9,000. All the figures have been falsified and the child mortality rate in Darfur does not exceed that in Khartoum."
Al-Bashir accused western countries of inflating statistics to justify a military intervention. "Any talk of a deterioration of the situation in Darfur is false," he said, claiming that only five out of 23 major towns in the region were currently facing security problems.
The US accuses al-Bashir's regime of genocide in Darfur and has pushed for UN peacekeepers to be dispatched there. The Sudanese president has consistently rejected efforts to replace the African Union observers currently deployed in Darfur, accusing the West of seeking to invade his country and plunder its resources.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/29/2006 00:00 ||
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Of course there isn't a humanitarian crisis! He (as well as the UN, MSM, and LLL) dont consider the black muslims quite human.
Wasn't it the Profit Mohammand who said blacks have the heart of a Donkey and are only good as slaves?
Rights panel rejects Darfur resolution GENEVA - The U.N. Human Rights Council rejected on Tuesday an attempt to hold the Sudanese government responsible for halting atrocities in Darfur,
... opting instead for a less-pointed resolution calling on all warring parties to end abuses.
opting instead for a less-pointed resolution calling on all warring parties to end abuses.
The council, which took over from the discredited U.N. Human Rights Commission June, is dominated by African and Muslim countries that have sided with China, Cuba and other countries in preventing criticism of any government but Israel.
The council voted 22-20 against a resolution from the European Union and Canada demanding the Sudanese government prosecute those responsible for killing, raping and injuring civilians in the Darfur region of western Sudan. The showdown followed months of negotiations between the European Union and the council's African group on what approach to take toward Darfur, which the United Nations has called the world's worst humanitarian disaster.
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Islamic sharia law is gaining an increasing foothold in parts of Britain, a report claims. Sharia, derived from several sources including the Koran, is applied to varying degrees in predominantly Muslim countries but it has no binding status in Britain. However, the BBC Radio 4 programme Law in Action produced evidence yesterday that it was being used by some Muslims as an alternative to English criminal law. Aydarus Yusuf, 29, a youth worker from Somalia, recalled a stabbing case that was decided by an unofficial Somali "court" sitting in Woolwich, south-east London.
Mr Yusuf said a group of Somali youths were arrested on suspicion of stabbing another Somali teenager. The victim's family told the police it would be settled out of court and the suspects were released on bail. A hearing was convened and elders ordered the assailants to compensate their victim. "All their uncles and their fathers were there," said Mr Yusuf. "So they all put something towards that and apologised for the wrongdoing."
Although Scotland Yard had no information about that case yesterday, a spokesman said it was common for the police not to proceed with assault cases if the victims decided not to press charges. However, the spokesman said cases of domestic violence, including rape, might go to trial regardless of the victim's owner's wishes.
Mr Yusuf told the programme he felt more bound by the traditional law of his birth than by the laws of his adopted country. "Us Somalis, wherever we are in the world, we have our own law," he said. "It's not sharia, it's not religious it's just a cultural thing." Your culture made your country a hellhole, and now you want to ruin another. Just like Californians moving to Arizona.
Sharia's great strength was the effectiveness of its penalties, he said. Those who appeared before religious courts would avoid re-offending so as not to bring shame on their families. Some lawyers welcomed the advance of what has become known as "legal pluralism".
Dr Prakash Shah, a senior lecturer in law at Queen Mary University of London, said such tribunals "could be more effective than the formal legal system". In his book Islam in Britain, Patrick Sookhdeo, director of the Institute for the Study of Islam and Christianity, says there is an "alternative parallel unofficial legal system" that operates in the Muslim community on a voluntary basis. "Sharia courts now operate in most larger cities, with different sectarian and ethnic groups operating their own courts that cater to their specific needs according to their traditions," he says. These are based on sharia councils, set up in Britain to help Muslims solve family and personal problems. Sharia councils may grant divorces under religious law to a woman whose husband refuses to complete a civil divorce by declaring his marriage over. There is evidence that these councils are evolving into courts of arbitration.
Faizul Aqtab Siddiqi, a barrister and principal of Hijaz College Islamic University, near Nuneaton, Warwicks, said this type of court had advantages for Muslims. "It operates on a low budget, it operates on very small timescales and the process and the laws of evidence are far more lenient and it's less awesome an environment than the English courts," he said.
Mr Siddiqi predicted that there would be a formal network of Muslim courts within a decade. "I was speaking to a police officer who said we no longer have the bobby on the beat who will give somebody a slap on the wrist. So I think there is a case to be made under which the elders sit together and reprimand people, trying to get them to change."
Posted by: God ||
11/29/2006 10:32 ||
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#2
It's metastasing; jihad is not a strictly military thing, it's a weaponization of an entire civilization (built around an imperialist totalitarian religion), and is fought culturally, religiously, economically, politically, with lawfare, with demography, with occupation of public space,... and when needed, terror, or even open warfare when the odds are good.
Key element is the forward drive, IE the relentlessness; even in "peace times", there's an harassement policy, to weaken the ennemy (think of the Meditteranean european shores, once the richest part of that continent, which have became the poorest historically due to a millenium of razzia by the muslims from the southern shores).
And when the immunitary system of the host society is gone, like it is the case in Europe, and increasingly in the USA, the infection spreads unopposed.
#3
I'd get on your case for that snark about Californians moving to Arizona except that I know it's true. We're just as bad as New Yorkers. But, hey, at least we're not Somalis.
#4
That rediculous, there cant be two seperate laws in one country, actually slightly recist as well cos im not aloud Somali law, oh no im stuck with British law, so now a bunch of foreigners r making there own rules in our country. Tossers
Posted by: Tom ||
11/29/2006 15:13 Comments ||
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#5
wow! It's spreading so fast they have ONE example!
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/29/2006 15:22 Comments ||
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#6
Anyone participating in a court outside the writ of the Queen should be summarily hanged. It baffles me that this is not be blindingly obvious.
South Korea's former North-South unification minister, a possible 2007 presidential contender,
"Should Japan, Taiwan and Korea build their own nuclear weapons, the implication on global security would be much graver than North Korea's nuclear ambition."
is urging the United States to ease financial restrictions against North Korea as a way to encourage progress at coming nuclear disarmament talks.
Chung Dong-young, whose high-profile meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong Il last year led to a resumption of the stalled six-nation talks at the time, also said Tuesday that a failure to rid the North of its weapons could spur a nuclear arms race in Northeast Asia. "Should Japan, Taiwan and Korea build their own nuclear weapons, the implication on global security would be much graver than North Korea's nuclear ambition," Chung said at a speech at Johns Hopkins University's school of international studies. "We don't need to imagine the destruction that it would create."
Posted by: Fred ||
11/29/2006 00:00 ||
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Australia shows how a real Oil-for-Food investigation is done.
By Claudia Rosett At United Nations headquarters, Secretary General Kofi Annan likes to imply that the Oil-for-Food era is over (If there was a scandal was his locution earlier this year). But Down Under, that landmark U.N. scam is right now all over the headlines. On Monday, Australias Cole commission released the findings of its year-long inquiry into some $220 million in kickbacks allegedly paid by the Australian Wheat Board (AWB) to Saddam Husseins U.N.-sanctioned regime under Oil-for-Food.
In a nutshell, the inquiry has cleared the Howard government, but recommends pursuing possible criminal charges against a dozen individuals, eleven of them connected with AWB. Delving deeper into the report promises to be interesting. It runs to five volumes, totaling more than 2,000 pages freighted with such Oil-for-Food-isms as arrangements to funnel money through a Liechtenstein company with a Chinese name.
Continued on Page 49
#1
What I wouldn't give to have Ms. Rosett's brains. Thanks for posting this, .com -- the lady has single-handedly given Oil For Food legs, when the usual suspects worked so hard to make it quietly go away.
#3
I wish George Bush had the balls to tell koffing anus that either the entire Volcker report and the underlying documents are made available to the United States, or the United States will quit funding, cooperating with, or acting within the parameters of any United Nations offices or agencies. Also, someone (preferably Iraq) should indict koffee the minute his UN gig is up, and try him for conspiracy to defraud the Iraqi people, and hang him with piano wire from a high place, with at least 50 feet of open space below his heels.
I agree - Claudia Rosett is one of the very best!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/29/2006 16:52 Comments ||
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I'm getting some e-mail from folks who have heard horror stories of Islamist intolerance of Christianity in Turkey, and asking why I'm not denouncing my Turkish hosts for insufficient tolerance of other religions, and how doesn't this just reveal that the Turks are just like the rest of the Muslim world, intolerant extremists, etc.
First of all, my views of Turkey are shaped most powerfully by my firsthand experience, and those experiences have thankfully so far been positive. This may reflect that people are on their "best behavior" around a journalist, or it could be because I'm American. It also might be that I generally tread lightly when discussing religious topics. I don't begin discussions with my Turkish friends with, "So, about that priest who got shot in Trabzon - are you ashamed to be a Turk, or what?"
Having said all that, the party in power, AKP, is openly Islamist. They are patient, meticulous and not synonymous with the views of, say, Hamas or Ahmediniad. They have found much of their agenda stymied since coming to power in 2002. But it does not seem outrageous to conclude that if Turkish public opinion shifted to an easily-provoked, quick-to-anger, anti-Western view, AKP would not break a sweat trying to reverse the trend.
It is unlikely that Turkey will have a warm-and-fuzzy attitude towards Christianity in our lifetime; or at least not for a while in our lifetimes. There is, however, an attitude of staunch secularism that, if not outright tolerant, sees Islamist religious intolerance as backwards and un-Turkish. (By golly, it's not what Ataturk would do!)
(Random aside - Turks feel either the most minimal or no connection or bond at all with Arab Muslims. When the Dubai Ports World controversy was brewing, the reaction of two of my Turkish friends was, "Well, anti-Muslim bias is wrong. It's discrimination. But anti-Arab bias... man, that's just common sense! I wouldn't let one of those Arab lunatics run my country's port!")
So I guess I'm hoping Western observers don't look at Turkey and dismiss it as no better than Saudi Arabia, or Iran, or the mobs in Afghanistan who wanted to kill the Christian convert Abdul Rahman, etc. Yes, there are powerful forces at work here who rail against imaginary plots of Christian conversions, and who like to target the few remaining Christians in the country as scapegoats. Conspiracy theories are the coin of the realm, sad to say. But there are Turkish, and in fact Muslim allies against intolerance and hate in this country, and I think the West would be foolish to ignore or alienate these folks.
Posted by: Mike ||
11/29/2006 09:29 ||
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#1
During the Ottoman Empire administration, Turks considered Arabs incompetent, lazy good-for-nothing bums. There was more than several grains of truth in that view.
I'd say simply sex-addled, MacNails. Incest is only one of the dimensions of the entire pathology. But then, the harems of the last Ottoman sultans weren't exactly examples of sexual rectitude, by all accounts.
#5
Non-muslims have long been a majority in "islamic" turkey (not the ottoman empire); right at the beginning of 20th century, they were still 1/3rd of the population; now, they're basically nothing. Between persecutions, population swaps, and outright genocides, this was not a tolerance exercise.
#7
Just let me know when they allow the Halki Orthodox seminary on Heybeliada Island to open once again. It was shut down by state decree. In a short time there may not be a Turkish born Patriarch to assume leadership of the Orthodox Church. It's only been closed since 1971.
#9
My primary experiences with the Turks are with those in Germany, either living there or in the military assigned there for NATO exercises (mostly as observers). The educated Turks are pleasant, articulate, and extremely well-behaved. It's easy to get along with them, and most of them are quite secular in their behavior. The average joe grunt on the street is something quite different. They used to come to moving sales in the housing areas, and want to give you nothing for everything. They could be quite abusive if you didn't agree with them. They were also known to steal from you in plain sight, daring you to challenge them. It's been 17 years since I left, but I doubt things have changed much, except perhaps to get worse.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/29/2006 16:57 Comments ||
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The agency gave EU governments poor marks in its report for 2005 on the state of racism and xenophobia in the 25-nation bloc, concluding that the EU as a whole must increase efforts to combat discrimination.
Beate Winkler, director of the European Monitoring Center on Racism and Xenophobia, said most member states "still lack the necessary data to monitor how social and economic policies affect their ethnic communities."
European governments must adopt a law setting out a standard definition of racism, said Anastasia Crickley, who chairs the monitoring agency's management board. Once all member states can use a single definition, they will be able to collect information on racist attacks.
"Unfortunately we cannot sit here ... and say that the situation has improved," she said.
According to the report, only Britain and Finland had "comprehensive" systems in place to report on racist violence, collecting details about victims and the locations of incidents.
It said no official data was available at all on racist violence and crime from Greece, Spain, Italy, Cyprus and Malta.
"As a result, some ethnic minority groups may experience discrimination without adequate response from the state," Winkler said.
The agency holds that statistics are essential in fighting the root causes of racism and xenophobia.
Britain topped the list with nearly 60,000 racist incidents reported between April 2004 and March 2005. German authorities recorded 15,914 crimes by right-wing or extremists last year, while France reported 974 racially motivated incidents. The agency said Denmark recorded the highest rise in recorded racist violence and crime, going from 36 in 2004 to 81 in 2005, a 69 percent increase.
[snip]
Reports from Belgium showed landlords sometimes refused to rent apartments to people with foreign names. Similar refusals were also documented in Denmark, France, Italy and Finland.
The report pointed to two key incidents last year that highlighted exclusion and discrimination in Europe.
It said violent riots in the suburbs of Paris and elsewhere in France in October and November 2005, largely by Muslim youths of Arab and African decent, was due to decades of discrimination in jobs and housing and overall alienation from mainstream society.
The EU agency said such violence showed there was an urgent need to tackle discrimination.
#2
The report makes no mention of the ethnicity of aggressors, being phrased in a bland passive voice that makes it sound like European natives are the ones doing all the hating and attacking.
I searched the 140-page PDF document for a few terms:
The upsurge in "faith-hate" crimes against Muslims after the 7/7 London train bombings is described in detail, twice.
Data from the UK shows 532 anti-Jewish incidents, 137 anti-Muslim incidents, and no information the identities of the perps. Random yoots, no doubt.
Money quote: ". . . Jews continue to experience antisemitic incidents, which tend to be well documented by both official and unofficial sources. And, although their experiences remain under-documented, Muslims are increasingly coming to NGOs attention as victims of racist violence and crime."
#6
Course not, CF. In fact, it explains, in the context of British law: "Under earlier racial hatred laws, Sikhs and Jews as mono-ethnic religious groups are protected as racial groups whereas Muslims, Hindus, and Christians are not."
BTW, this is the only reference to Christians, Christianity, or Hindus in the entire report.
Posted by: ed ||
11/29/2006 08:15 ||
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#1
The maps are interesting indeed, but it would be even more interesting to calculate the total square miles of French territory no longer under French control, and the rate at which this number changes each year.
Of course, it would've been equally useful to calculate the rate, perhaps in cm/s, at which the Titanic sank.
#2
Is there anything we want to get off the deck before the ship sinks? Something tasty from the Louvre perhaps? There are all those historic DaVinci Code landmarks to think of as well. Vanessa Paradis can crash at mine when things become serieuse.
#4
While this is telling, there are some urban areas in major U.S. cities for which cops have little control over. Of course witht he U.S. we are talking about simple hoodlums and in Phrance there are muslim hoodlums.
#5
True, CS, but keep in mind that such areas in US cities are also vastly smaller islands in a vastly larger sea, nor are there 751 of them, I'd wager. There's even a ZUS in Tours, for Pete's sake.
#8
If you look at the maps provided, I am shocked by how extensive these area are. Each city seems to have several of them. What surprised me is that even the French islands in the Caribean and Indian Ocean have no-go areas.
exJag
The money quote is that 5 million people (8% of the population) live in these zones.
Cyber Sarge:
While American cities may have high crime areas, nowhere do the police have to worry about being ambushed. Nowhere are the firefighters and ambulance drivers attacked.
Any attempt by criminals to create a zone like this would not be tolerated in the US (nor should it).
Al
Posted by: frozen Al ||
11/29/2006 11:48 Comments ||
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#9
From the gouv.fr web address, I take it that these are officially sanctioned NoGo maps.
Posted by: ed ||
11/29/2006 12:31 Comments ||
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#10
"Is there anything we want to get off the deck before the ship sinks? Something tasty from the Louvre perhaps? There are all those historic DaVinci Code landmarks to think of as well. Vanessa Paradis can crash at mine when things become serieuse."
I have been planning my looting for years.
Posted by: Mark E. ||
11/29/2006 12:33 Comments ||
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#12
frozen Al, I was a fireman in Los Angeles in the seventies stationed in the Watts/Willowbrook area. We were ambushed by the natives many times. I even have a souveneer helmet shield with a 22 ca. bullet hole through it and yes, I was wearing it at the time the bullet went through. It became policy for us to respond with police escort.
#15
DonM,
I should have mentioned that the 70's were an exception. I remember the "precocious youths" from the NYC projects would steal manhole covers, take them up to the roof, and try to drop them on patroling policemen.
However, I haven't heard of that kind of behavior in about 25 years.
Al
Posted by: frozen al ||
11/29/2006 18:57 Comments ||
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#16
The comments would be funnier if France weren't a nuclear power.
#3
"Best of the Web" ran a piece a few days ago comparing Peters' speculations to Mark Steyn's prediction that Muslims will conquer Europe by outbreeding the natives. It concluded, "Think about this: Peters is predicting a rebirth of European fascism, possibly including genocide--and he's the optimist of this pair."
Posted by: Mike ||
11/29/2006 9:49 Comments ||
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#5
When Peter's article was first possted on the 'burg, I wanted to say that it depends on European leadership. If no one steps up to lead the majority against these invaders, they won't fight back.
Right now, the European response reminds me of America's response to the Iran hostage crisis (when we had that "great American president" Jimmy Carter as our leader). The families of individual hostages were traveling to Iran to beg the Ayatollahs for the release of their loved ones.
The option of moving to the countryside or emmigrating is a rational response to the lack of leadership in Europe. If that changes Peters will prove correct.
Al
Posted by: frozen Al ||
11/29/2006 12:09 Comments ||
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#6
France may be lost, but I don't know about the Germans. The Poles will fight back, at least for awhile. Switzerland will survive, in some form. Other than that, I don't have a clue. I'd bet, though, that things will get pretty nasty in Europe immediately after the first nation collapses due to it's unsustainable welfare state.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/29/2006 17:42 Comments ||
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#7
When Chiraq - a one time Colonel of a division that practised torture during the Algerian uprising - re-visited Algeria, locals peppered his speaches with shouts of "visas!" Millions of Muslims want migration to France. When Muslims approach majority status in the French civil service, there will be no stopping them, and they will spread the sharia-cancer to the rest of Europe.
What is Peter's problem? He was indoctrinated by Clinton's Muslims as victims snake oil, and he can't shake it, even with jihad-fever infecting the world.
"No red carpet for the Pope" said one Turkish headline today and indeed there were no banners, portraits or flag waving crowds of the kind you normally see on papal trips abroad as Pope Benedict XVI arrived for the most hazardous and delicate trip of his pontificate so far. But equally, despite noisy protests against the Popes visit over the past few days and threats of violence, the streets of Ankara were also devoid of demonstrators, partly because of a ferocious security clampdown by Turkish police.
The Pope stepped from his Alitalia plane to meet Tayyip Erdogan, the pro-Islamic Prime Minister, wearing a heavy white topcoat which may or may not conceal a bullet proof vest. Vatican officials admit the question of whether he should wear one was raised, but that the pontiff was reluctant to do so. The Pope appeared to nod understandingly when Mr Erdogan, who only agreed to meet the pontiff at the last moment, explained that he had leave immediately for the NATO summit in Riga.
The two men then spoke for twenty minutes in the VIP lounge of Ankara airport and appeared keen to dispel tensions that have surrounded the Pope in the Islamic world since he appeared to conflate Islam and violence in a speech at the University of Regensburg in September.
The Pope said that he wanted to visit Turkey to "reiterate the solidarity between the cultures" adding: "It is a democratic, Islamic country and a bridge... I wanted to come to Turkey since becoming Pope because I love this culture." Mr Erdogan, a moderate leader who told the Turkish parliament that he expected the rest of the country to welcome the Pope "with our traditional hospitality", affirmed the pontiff as a figure of tolerance. "I explained to him that Islam is a religion of love and tolerance, and the Pope agrees with me," he said. "He too gave the message that Islam is a religion of love and peace."
But the first misunderstanding was not far away. After their meeting, Mr Erdogan told journalists that the Pope, who as a cardinal said that admitting predominantly Muslim Turkey to the EU would be "a grave error against the tide of history", had now told him he hoped Turkey would join. "He told me, We want Turkey to be part of the EU,'" said Mr Erdogan. "It is an honourable commendation."
Vatican officials offered a slightly different version, saying the Pope had told the Turkish leader that the Vatican "views with favour the steps Turkey is taking toward fulfillment of the requirements of the EU body", and had stressed that the Vatican was not a political entity.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/29/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
My favorite part of this pantomime diplomacy is the Pope talking about brotherhood while that mufti chap seethes and whines about "islamophobia". The latter's spider religion capable only of self-pity when its febrile sadism encounters resistance.
#3
Initialy I heard that Erdogan said he wasn't going to take time off to greet the pope.
My initial thought was "thats the pope - who are you exactly?"
#4
Prime Minister Erdogan had indeed stated that the meeting in Riga was more important, but at the last minute condescended to intersect at the airport lounge for 20 minutes. Amazing condescension, considering that the Catholic variant isn't legally recognized in Turkey.
Why the Russians, Procopius2K? There are national branches of Orthodoxy across the former Byzantine empire -- the Serbs would have an interest, and certainly the Greeks, hundreds of thousands of whom were expelled after Ataturk took power.
In a decision that could roil Democratic unity in the new House, Speaker-to-be Nancy Pelosi passed over Rep. Alcee Hastings Tuesday for the chairmanship of the Intelligence Committee. Hastings, currently the No. 2 Democrat on the panel, had been aggressively making a case for the top position, supported by members of the Congressional Black Caucus.
"I am obviously disappointed with this decision," Hastings, D-Fla., said in a statement thanking his supporters. "I will be seeking better and bigger opportunities in a Democratic Congress."
Critics pointed out that he stank to high heavenwas damaged goodscouldn't get a security clearance had been impeached when he was a federal judge and said naming him to such a sensitive post would be a mistake just as the Democrats take over House control pledging reforms. "I am obviously disappointed with this decision," Hastings, D-Fla., said in a statement thanking his supporters. "I will be seeking better and bigger opportunities in a Democratic Congress."
He learned his bid for the chairmanship was unsuccessful during a closed-door meeting with Pelosi on Tuesday. In a statement, Pelosi, D-Calif., said Hastings has made national security his highest priority. "He has served our country well, and I have full confidence that he will continue to do so," she said.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/29/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
"I will be seeking better and bigger opportunities bribes in a Democratic Congress."
#2
This is clearly a racist response, an outrage. His rights have clearly been violated! I suggest he form a seperate Minority Congressional Intelligence Committee Caucus at once!
Air marshals, pilots and security officials yesterday expressed concern that airline passengers and crews will be reluctant to report suspicious behavior aboard for fear of being called "racists," after several Muslim imams made that charge in a press conference Monday at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport.
Six imams, or Muslim holy men, accused a US Airways flight crew of inappropriately evicting them from a flight last week in Minneapolis after several passengers said the imams tried to intimidate them by loudly praying and moving around the airplane. The imams urged Congress to enact laws to prohibit ethnic and religious "profiling."
Federal air marshals and others yesterday urged passengers to remain vigilant to threats. "The crew and passengers act as our additional eyes and ears on every flight," said a federal air marshal in Las Vegas, who asked that his name not be used. "If [crew and passengers] are afraid of reporting suspicious individuals out of fear of being labeled a racist or bigot, then terrorists will certainly use those fears to their advantage in future aviation attacks."
But Rabiah Ahmed, spokeswoman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), said Muslims "have to walk around on eggshells in public just because we don't want to be misconstrued as suspicious. You have to strike a balance between legitimate fears which people may have, but not allow passengers to have so much discretion that they can trigger a process that would violate a traveler's basic civil rights." "Because one person misunderstood the actions of other law-abiding citizens, they were able to trigger a very long and daunting process for other travelers that were pulled off the plane in handcuffs and detained for many hours before they were cleared."
The imams say they were removed from the Phoenix-bound flight because they were praying quietly in the concourse. They had been in Minnesota for a conference sponsored by the North American Imams Federation.
But other passengers told police and aviation security officials a different version of the incident. They said suspicious behavior of the imams led to their eviction from the flight. The imams, they said, tested the forbearance of the passengers and flight crew in what the air marshal called a "[political correctness] probe." "The political correctness needs to be left at the boarding gate," the marshal said. "Instilling politically correct fears into the minds of airline passengers is nothing less than psychological terrorism."
The passengers and flight crew said the imams prayed loudly before boarding; switched seating assignments to a configuration used by terrorists in previous incidents; asked for seat-belt extensions, which could be used as weapons; and shouted hostile slogans about al Qaeda and the war in Iraq. Flight attendants said three of the six men, who did not appear to be overweight, asked for the seat-belt extensions, which include heavy metal buckles, and then threw them to the floor under their seats.
Robert MacLean, a former federal air marshal, expressed the fear yesterday that the situation "will make crews and passengers in the future second-guess reporting these events, thus compromising the aircraft's security out of fear of being labeled a dogmatist or a bigot, or being sued."
Flight attendants said they were concerned that the way the imams took seats that were not assigned to them -- two seats in the front row of first class, exit seats in the middle of the plane and two seats in the rear -- resembled the pattern used by September 11 hijackers, giving them control of the exits.
A Minneapolis police officer and a federal air marshal who were called to the plane after the imams refused to leave the plane for questioning said "the seating configuration, the request for seat-belt extensions, the prior praying and utterances about Allah and the United States in the gate area ... was suspicious."
One pilot for a competing airline said the incident would have a chilling effect on the flight crews. "The flight crew may be a little more gun-shy about approaching people, they may have a higher standard for the next few weeks for screening unusual behavior. I hope that's not the case, because I do think US Airways did the proper thing."
Andrea Rader, spokeswoman for US Airways, said its employees "are going to do what is appropriate" to ensure that airplanes are safe and will not be dissuaded by uproar over last week's incident. "I don't think people will be less vigilant as a result of this, and I think that's appropriate. There is a balance, and I think we will continue to achieve that. Our crews and people on the airplanes are going to watch for behavior that raises concerns."
Many airports offer private rooms for prayer, but CAIR's Miss Ahmed said travelers required to arrive at airports two hours in advance to go through security inspections are too exhausted and must pray at the gate. "It's convenient to check in then get to the gate and pray there," she said. It's convenient and appropriate for any red blooded American to loudly sing Toby Keith's "Angry American (Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue)" any time islamofascists bend over: Cause we'll put a boot in your ass
It's the American way
Posted by: ed ||
11/29/2006 07:54 ||
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#4
Yeah! And Mordor too! From what I saw of that place from the movies - not nearly as backward as most muslim countries. Actually quite technically advanced compared to the mid-east, and Sauron is way easier going than Allan.
#6
CAIR's Miss Ahmed said travelers required to arrive at airports two hours in advance to go through security inspections are too exhausted and must pray at the gate.
Funny. I always arrive two hours ahead and find I have plenty of time do read, or annoy my wife, or grab a bite to eat before the flight. If I was into praying on a carpet, I could find a chapel and pray there.
Too exhausted? Horsefeathers! You gave it away, there, Miss Ahmed.
By the way, who says you can be a spokesperson for Muslims? You gotta Immam in your pocket?
Posted by: Bobby ||
11/29/2006 17:00 Comments ||
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#7
I've been hoping and praying that eye-witnesses on the flight in question made some audio/video recordings of the events in question and posted them on the web, but so far nothing has surfaced. This evidence would blow away any of the Imam's B.S.
IANAL, but the port side of the internet is crowing happily about this lawsuit, especially in view of the fact that this favorable ruling coincides with the release of the anti military contractor "documentary" Iraq for Sale.
Edited for the lead...
RALEIGH - A Wake County judge gave the go-ahead Monday for a wrongful death lawsuit filed by the families of four men who were killed, and whose bodies were publicly burned and hung, in Fallujah, Iraq, in 2004.
Superior Court Judge Donald Stephens' decision means the families of the murdered contractors can start pressing Blackwater Security Services for documents and testimony about what led to the massacre shown on televisions and in newspapers around the world.
#3
Should have named the company Whitewater. Then the left wouldn't get within 1000 miles of an investigation.
Posted by: ed ||
11/29/2006 7:51 Comments ||
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#4
This is new legal ground for the US, aboveground private mercenary companies. Trouble is, they lack legal precedent except peripherally. The importance of this case is that it will determine if there is a future for them, or if, as a business, it has full exposure and thus cannot operate.
Several businesses in the US could not exist today unless they had liberal exemptions from troublesome litigators: mining, timber, railroads, bounty hunting; all have 19th Century federal law to protect them.
The companies *should* have gotten such exemption first, before committing to war. Back right after 9-11 was their opportunity, and they didn't take it. They may now pay the price for missing that opportunity.
And they *are* a target of the left. Mercenaries have never been loved in the US; but now they are associated with the right, so the left is more than inclined to try and suppress them.
#7
I worked for folks like this, this is jsut a buncha vultures trying to screw contracting companies.
Disclaimer: EODT is better IMHO for Basic FP and Security/Ops, plus they tend to hire more SF qual guys and train them. But I have a personal bias given the work I have done.
A special bipartisan panel Never miss an opportunity to point that out, Rooters. Of course, all who call themselves Republicans are lockstep neobots.
held a second day of intensive meetings on Tuesday seeking a consensus on recommendations for U.S. President George W. Bush on how to change course in Iraq. The 10-member group, led by former Secretary of State James Baker and former Rep. Lee Hamilton, wants to submit recommendations to Bush by the end of the year but has found some rough going in reaching agreement among themselves. Gosh, who'da thunk it? I thought they'd finish by lunch on Day One.
Bush, whose Republicans were bounced from control of the U.S. Congress last month due in large part to his handling of Iraq, is under strong pressure for a major shift in course, and many in Washington are hoping the panel will provide an impetus for change. Bounced. Hard to beat Rooters for the straight poop.
The group has been meeting in secret and participants have been reluctant to discuss their deliberations. A source familiar with its work said the group was expected to meet again on Wednesday. Secret, yes, but we know all about it. We'll be selling the DVD through our Liechtenstein company with a Chinese name.
"I think everybody would like to have a consensus, but it's a tough thing to reach," said another official familiar with the group's deliberations. "Behind closed doors they want to come out with a reasonable plan that everybody embraces, but there's no easy way to do it." The graphic covers it purdy well.
The group has been considering a number of options, including the possibility of the United States holding talks with Iran and Syria about influencing the warring groups in Iraq. Sure, 3 years of talk isn't nearly enuff. They prolly need another 2 or so to cover trigger and weight issues.
The White House, annoyed at Iran over its nuclear program and at Syria for its influence in Lebanon, has been reluctant to hold talks with either government about Iraq. Reluctant. Heh.
White House national security adviser Stephen Hadley told reporters on Monday this subject was likely to come up in talks Bush is to have in Amman, Jordan, on Thursday with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/29/2006 00:00 ||
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A federal judge struck down President Bush's authority to designate groups as terrorists, saying his post-Sept. 11 executive order was unconstitutionally vague, according to a ruling released Tuesday. The Humanitarian Law Project had challenged Bush's order, which blocked all the assets of groups or individuals he named as "specially designated global terrorists" after the 2001 terrorist attacks.
"This law gave the president unfettered authority to create blacklists," said David Cole, a lawyer for the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Constitutional Rights that represented the group. "It was reminiscent of the McCarthy era." The case centered on two groups, the Liberation Tigers, which seeks a separate homeland for the Tamil people in Sri Lanka, and Partiya Karkeran Kurdistan, a political organization representing the interests of Kurds in Turkey.Both groups consider the Nov. 21 ruling a victory; both had been designated by the United States as foreign terrorist organizations.U.S. District Judge Audrey Collins enjoined the government from blocking the assets of the two groups.
Go look at her previous rulings. She just lo-o-o-ves terrorist legal aid.
Appointed to the federal bench by President Clinton in 1994.
Cole said the judge's ruling does not invalidate the hundreds of other designated terrorist groups on the list but "calls them into question."
The judge's 45-page ruling was a reversal of her own tentative findings last July in which she indicated she would uphold wide powers asserted by Bush under an anti-terror financing law. She delayed her ruling then to allow more legal briefs to be filed. She also struck down the provision in which Bush had authorized the secretary of the treasury to designate anyone who "assists, sponsors or provides services to" or is "otherwise associated with" a designated group. However, she let stand sections of the order that penalize those who provide "services" to designated terrorist groups. She said such services would include the humanitarian aid and rights training proposed by the plaintiffs.
The Humanitarian Law Project planned to appeal that part of the ruling, Cole said. "We are pleased the court rejected many of the constitutional arguments raised by the plaintiffs, including their challenge to the government's ban on providing services to terrorist organizations," Miller said Tuesday. "However, we believe the court erred in finding that certain other aspects of the executive order were unconstitutional." The ruling was still considered a victory, Cole said.
"Even in fighting terrorism the president cannot be given a blank check to blacklist anyone he considers a bad guy or a bad group and you can't imply guilt by association," Cole said.
#1
Terrorist: both any person who uses violence or threat of violence for political ends, or any person who has acted or conspires to incite, finance, harbor, arm, train and/or who, generally, aids and abets said use of political violence, by either accession to terror or obstruction of just law enforsement against terrorism.
Islamic terrorist: any Muslim who reads and understands the koran.
BLOOMINGTON, Ind. (AP) - The FBI is discontinuing an investigation into an Indiana University computer security student whose Web page included a way for people to print fake Northwest Airlines boarding passes. Public-spirited. Just the kinda guy he is, *sniff*.
The 25-year-old Bloomington doctoral student says the boarding pass generator he created was intended to illustrate flaws in airport security. Going for a PhD, huh? Prolly thought it would get him laid.
An FBI spokeswoman says their investigation determined that Christopher Soghoian did not violate federal law. Soghoian says federal officials took his computers and passport during the investigation but have since returned them. Meet Chris. He's quite the cut-up. He's even been Wikified.
I though this bit was precious: "Hacktivism & Electronic Civil Disobedience"
He says he built his Web site generator to mimic Minneapolis-based Northwest Airlines boarding passes because he had one handy after flying the carrier recently. I wonder if he'd cease being a moron if he got laid - hell, I might chip in $20. On the other hand, I'd chip in $50 if someone with persuasive skills wants to, um, have a quiet little one-on-one with the lad... Bloomington, was it?
#1
investigation into an Indiana University computer security student
What odds he'll be able to find employment in his chosen field after this? Unless, of course, he can demonstrate that it was actually a honey trap, and list those he'd been able to track down and turn over to the authorities for conviction...
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/29/2006 8:46 Comments ||
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#6
All it will take is for some idiot to use his site and then get caught in the airport. He will then be have supported a crime and will get what he deserves. What a dumbass, he needs to leave college, grow up and get a life.
Posted by: 49 Pan ||
11/29/2006 12:04 Comments ||
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#7
so the site may be legal, but isn't the presentation of fake documents a crime? this looks to me like a sure way to smuggle fake ground-side uniforms ( one piece at a time) into the 'sterile' areas and then pass yourself off as an authorized individual, gain access to the tarmac and then all sorts of 'fun' could be had. Especially if you got some sympathetic person to hold the door cuz your hands were full and you couldn't reach your badge.... just sayin, is all. this will come back to bite us somewhere.
#8
Got your computer stuff back, huh, Christopher?
That's good.
Think the feds might've put some neat "upgrades" in while they had it? Like, you might not even know that they're there...
Hizb-ul-Mujahideen has slammed doors on Pandits' return to their homes in the Kashmir Valley. Frightened of militancy, the Pandits had fled their homeland 17 years ago. Hizb-ul-Mujahideen's supreme commander Syed Salaha-ud-Din has stated that, "time was not ripe for the return of Kashmiri Pandits to the Valley." "The return at this juncture would create complications," he told Srinagar-based news agency CNS on Monday. However, he did not elaborate the "complications".
Salaha-ud-Din's statement has virtually closed all doors for the Kashmiri Pandit community to their homes in the Valley, according to a leader of the community in Jammu. Chairman of Panun Kashmir, Ajay Charngoo, told Hindustan Times that this made it clear that they did not want Kashmiri Pandits back in the Valley in any case. This also proved that the claims of the government that the situation has improved and the community can return to the Valley were "hollow". "Terrorists are calling shots there," Charngoo said.
Many Kashmiri Pandits, however, are living in the hope of returning to their homes one day. Their last wish is to die there. But the situation in the Valley has not changed to make their return safe. And now the statement coming from the Hizb chief has only added to their fears. Approximately, 350,000 Kashmiri Hindus -- a microscopic minority in Kashmir but an important component of the regions history and ethos -- fled their homes in the Valley, starting November 1989. The winter of horror continues for them even now.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/29/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Can't have ethnic cleansing of hindus from the lands of islam reversed can we?
What would mohammed think?
Posted by: john ||
11/29/2006 6:27 Comments ||
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What happened to "the right of return is sacred"?
Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front chairman Mohammad Yasin Malik has declared that his opening of office in downtown Srinagar on Sunday was part of his plans to "motivate youth for resistance through politics rather than guns." He says his inspiration in enrolling the youth of Kashmir for political resistance developing for our cause was Edward Said, a PalestinianAmerican literary theorist and an outspoken advocate of Palestinian cause. Said was a strong champion of the cause of Palestinians.
Yasin Maliks opening of office in densely populated Bohri Kadal in downtown Srinagar, regarded as a stronghold of the Mirwaiz family, triggered violent protests. "JKLF is not a banned group. It has ceased to be a terrorist group. Now we are a political movement and the opening of office should be read in the context of our larger mission, Malik told Hindustan Times over phone after having spent the night in his new office in Bohri Kadal.
Yasin Malik, who was among the first group of terrorists to launch secessionist violence in Kashmir in late 1980s, had renounced violence and use of guns in May 1994. Since then he claims to be following the Gandhian ways. Regarding Sunday's clashes, he said that "some elements frustrated by the response our rally received, resorted to mischief of disrupting it, which people foiled."
Posted by: Fred ||
11/29/2006 00:00 ||
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November 24 2006 0400 LT, Chittagong Outer Anchorage 'A', Bangladesh. 15 robbers armed with long knives boarded a bulk carrier. They tied up two ABs and three watchmen and broke into the bosuns store and stole ship's stores. The Duty Officer and an AB proceeded to the forecastle. Alarm was raised. Robbers jumped overboard and escaped with ship's stores, walkie-talkies and cellphones. Port authority and Coast Guard informed.
November 20 2006 0130 LT at Dumai Inner Anchorage, Indonesia. Six robbers armed with knives boarded a bulk carrier. They attempted to overcome the shore watchman who raised alarm. Duty Officer and crew rushed to assist. When confronted by crew, robbers jumped overboard and escaped empty handed.
November 19 2006 1900 LT, Tg. Priok, Indonesia. While crew were busy involved in discharging operations, robbers armed with steel bars managed to break into two stores and steal ship's stores. Upon seeing suspicious behaviour of shoreworkers on deck, duty crew informed the Duty Officer. Alarm raised and crew alerted. It was suspected the stevedores / shoreworkers may have been involved in the theft. Local authorities informed.
November 19 2006 0600 LT, off Lulu Oilfield, Ras al-Khafji, Saudi Arabia. Three masked pirates armed with a pistol and machine guns boarded a fishing vessel underway. One crew was killed and another injured. Pirates stole ship's equipment and left in a small red and white coloured boat. Saudi Coast Guard was informed.
WASHINGTON Military advisers are considering shifting U.S. troops around within Iraq, but the United States has no intention of throwing in the towel to Al-Anbar, the most violent of Iraq's 18 provinces, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Peter Pace said Wednesday.
Asked specifically whether serious consideration is being given to the idea of abandoning Al-Anbar to put more U.S. forces in Baghdad, Pace bluntly replied "no."
"You gave me a very straight question. I gave you a very straight answer. No. Why would we want to forfeit any part of Iraq to the enemy? We don't," he told reporters at a Pentagon briefing.
Continued on Page 49
Another old StrategyPage article of interest. They've a page that lists all the old articles, and I'm gorging on them, I'm afraid... and sharing the best bits, whether y'all are interested or not. ;-)
April 10, 2006: The enemy in Iraq is having a manpower shortage. This is noted by the reduction in the number of attacks on American troops, and the smaller groups of attackers involved in things like ambushes. This is one of the reasons for the new American policy of fighting it out with ambushes rather than hitting the accelerator. Because of money and recruiting problems, most ambushes in Iraq are conducted by a very small number of attackers. Unlike Vietnam, where the communists might deploy a hundred or so gunmen for an ambush, in Iraq ambush teams are most frequently 5-10 men. This is partially due to the different environment (not much jungle in Iraq) and partially to organizational ones (the enemy was a lot better organized and lot better trained in Vietnam). But mostly, it's a matter of money.
Most of the violence in Iraq is driven by organizations that pay people to participate. These groups have suffered increasing casualties over the last year, and that has resulted in fewer wealthy Sunni Arabs putting up the cash to pay the fighters. The increasing casualties caused by American and Iraqi forces has also discouraged Sunni Arabs from taking the money offered. The work has become too dangerous. The word gets around fast when Abdul and his four buddies all get killed when they tried to ambush some Iraqi police (and got spotted by an American UAV, and hit with a counterattack by Iraqi and American forces). Another problem for the recruiters has been increased use of night vision surveillance cameras by the Americans, and more UAVs available to fly night missions. The larger UAVs carry missiles. This means a few guys setting up a roadside bomb will suddenly disappear in a loud explosion. Another danger for the bomb planting teams are American snipers equipped with 12.7mm (.50 caliber) sniper rifles, and night vision scopes. Intelligence software can often predict which road the next bombs will be planted on, enabling the sniper teams to be deployed in such a way that they often catch these teams in the act, and often kill all three or four men involved. Actually, it's even better if one or two get away. They proceed to tell horrifying stories of their buddies "blowing up" when h it. That's a normal effect when someone is hit by a .50 caliber bullet. Those scary stories have a tendency to travel fast and far, discouraging others from hiring on to plant bombs. The recruiters have responded, as they always have, by raising the rates, But this means fewer teams can be sent out. With the money guys getting discouraged as well, there is less cash, higher fees for the gunmen and bomb planters and, as a result, far fewer attacks against Americans, and even Iraqi police and troops (who, the terrorists know, usually operate with American backup forces.)
Posted by: Carl in N.H. ||
11/29/2006 18:30 Comments ||
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#3
They think if they push hard enough, the Democrats in Congress will force us to leave -- it's a short focussed effort and they're putting in everything they've got, I suspect.
AMMAN, Jordan President Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki will be putting off their meeting by one day, the White House announced Wednesday.
"Since the King of Jordan and the prime minister had a bilateral themselves earlier today, everyone believed that it negated the purpose of the three of them to meet tonight together in a trilateral setting," White House adviser Dan Bartlett told reporters traveling with Bush.
Bartlett said the king and the prime minister had met before Bush arrived from a NATO summit in Latvia. Bush's meeting with King Abdullah was proceeding as scheduled, and the two will have dinner together. Al-Maliki will be absent from that event also. National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley will attend the pre-dinner meeting.
Bartlett said the delay gives Bush and Abdullah an opportunity to discuss other issues in the region. He said expects al-Maliki and Bush will have robust talks Thursday and we can "expect a lot of give and take."
The delay comes after the high-stakes summit was marred by public disclosure of U.S. doubts about al-Maliki's capacity to control sectarian violence and a walkout of Iraq's coalition government by 30 parliamentarians loyal to radical anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
Five Cabinet ministers also suspended their participation in the government saying their action was necessary because the meeting in Jordan constituted a "provocation to the feelings of the Iraqi people and a violation of their constitutional rights." Their statement did not explain that claim.
Bartlett denied that the delay had anything to do with a New York Times report Wednesday that said Hadley wrote in a classified Nov. 8 memo that al-Maliki's "capabilities are not yet sufficient" to control sectarian violence that has spread unabated throughout Iraq. Hadley also recommended steps to strengthen al-Maliki's position. The memo was written after an Oct. 30 trip to Baghdad.
"The reality on the streets of Baghdad suggests Maliki is either ignorant of what is going on, misrepresenting his intentions, or that his capabilities are not yet sufficient to turn his good intentions into action," the Times quoted the memo as saying.
The meetings scheduled Wednesday and Thursday aimed at halting Iraq's escalating sectarian violence and paving the way for a reduction of American troops.
"We are sticking to our position. ... The boycott is still valid," Falih Hassan, a Sadrist legislator, said in an interview with The Associated Press. "Bush is a criminal who killed a lot of Iraqis and we do not want him to interfere in Iraq's affairs. The Iraqi government should negotiate with the U.N. Security Council, not with the leader of the country that is occupying Iraq."
In New York on Tuesday, U.N. Security Council voted unanimously to extend for one year the mandate of the 160,000-strong multinational force in Iraq.
The Security Council responded to a request from al-Maliki, who said a top government priority is to assume full responsibility for security and stability throughout Iraq but that it needs more time.
The White House did not dispute the accuracy of the quoted material from the leaked memo, but a senior administration official reacting on condition of anonymity said that, taken as a whole, it is an expression of support for al-Maliki.
"You have a constant reiteration of the importance of strengthening the Maliki government, the need to work with him, to augment his capabilities," the official said.
He added that Bush and al-Maliki have a "personal relationship" that allows them to "talk candidly about the challenges."
Another official, also speaking anonymously because of the classified nature of the memo, told the Times that it was not "a slap in the face, but it's how do we grow his capability."
"The president has confidence in Prime Minister Maliki, and also the administration is working with the prime minister to improve his capabilities," Press Secretary Tony Snow told reporters, adding that al-Maliki "has been very aggressive in recent weeks in taking on some of the key challenges."
The White House is avoiding directly pressuring al-Maliki to do more to stop the bloodshed, or impose directives. Instead, Bush is expected to ask the prime minister for ideas on how to train Iraqi forces faster so they can shoulder more responsibility for securing the nation against sectarian extremists, and hear how he plans to mend his nation's bitter Sunni-Shia divide.
The meeting was to take place at the Raghadan Palace, high on a hill in the Jordanian capital.
"We will discuss the situation on the ground in his country, our ongoing efforts to transfer more responsibility to the Iraqi security forces, and the responsibility of other nations in the region to support the security and stability of Iraq," Bush said Tuesday while attending the NATO summit in Riga.
"We'll continue to be flexible, and we'll make the changes necessary to succeed. But there's one thing I'm not going to do: I'm not going to pull our troops off the battlefield before the mission is complete."
Abdullah has warned that unless bold steps are taken posthaste, the new year could dawn with three civil wars in the Mideast in Lebanon, between the Palestinians and Israelis and in Iraq. He says the fighting in Iraq amounts to a civil war between the Sunnis and Shiites, but Bush chooses to characterize it differently.
"No question it's tough," Bush said Tuesday. "There's a lot of sectarian violence taking place, fomented, in my opinion, because of these attacks by Al Qaeda, causing people to seek reprisal."
His planned meeting with al-Maliki is part of a new flurry of diplomacy the Bush administration has undertaken across the Middle East. Hadley's memo suggests that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice hold a meeting for Iraq and its neighbors in the region early next month.
After the Bush-al-Maliki summit, Rice is staying behind in the region for talks with Palestinian, and possibly, Israeli leaders, who agreed last weekend on a cease-fire to end five months of fighting in the Gaza Strip.
Hadley suggested in his memo that the United States could step up is efforts to get Saudi Arabia to take a leadership role in supporting Iraq, the Times reported. Hadley said Saudi Arabia could use its influence to move Sunni populations in Iraq out of violence and into politics, cut off any public or private funding provided to the insurgents or death squads from the region and lean on Syria to terminate its support for Baathists and insurgent leaders.
Iraqi officials say the United States wants other Sunni governments in the area, such as Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt, to persuade moderate Sunnis in Iraq to line up with al-Maliki. That would give him political clout he needs to challenge radical militias trying to undermine his authority.
Those three governments also are urging the United States to resume its role as mediator in the long-festering conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians, an issue that prejudices relations throughout the region.
Back in Washington, the Iraq Study Group, a bipartisan panel created to recommend a new way forward in Iraq, were meeting for a third day. The independent panel, set to issue a report next month, did not reach a consensus Tuesday on how many or how long U.S. troops should remain in Iraq, forcing the group to return for a third day of debate.
Posted by: ed ||
11/29/2006 12:32 ||
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#1
Money quotes:
"Only about ten percent of the deaths have been caused by U.S. troops. All the rest have been the result of terrorists, common criminals or Iraqi security forces. The number of civilians killed by U.S. troops is at a historical low."
"Death rates in the Kurdish north and Shia south have been at peacetime levels."
It goes on to explain that violent deaths in Iraq/per capita are approximately 1/3 that of Viet Nam.
Al
Posted by: frozen Al ||
11/29/2006 13:14 Comments ||
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#2
Hey, Sy Hersh said that this is the most brutal US army in history, so it's just got to be true.
Posted by: Jonathan ||
11/29/2006 13:26 Comments ||
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WASHINGTON, Nov 29 (Reuters) - Using money, weapons or its oil power, Saudi Arabia will intervene to prevent Iranian-backed Shi'ite militias from massacring Iraqi Sunni Muslims once the United States begins pulling out of Iraq, a security adviser to the Saudi government said on Wednesday.
Nawaf Obaid, writing in The Washington Post, said the Saudi leadership was preparing to revise its Iraq policy to deal with the aftermath of a possible U.S. pullout, and is considering options including flooding the oil market to crash prices and thus limit Iran's ability to finance Shi'ite militias in Iraq.
"To be sure, Saudi engagement in Iraq carries great risks -- it could spark a regional war. So be it: The consequences of inaction are far worse," Obaid said.
The article said the opinions expressed were Obaid's own and not those of the Saudi government.
"To turn a blind eye to the massacre of Iraqi Sunnis would be to abandon the principles upon which the kingdom was founded. It would undermine Saudi Arabia's credibility in the Sunni world and would be a capitulation to Iran's militarist actions in the region," he said.
U.S. President George W. Bush will meet Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki in Jordan on Wednesday to discuss a surge in Sunni-Shi'ite violence in Iraq.
Bush has said he does not support calls for a U.S. withdrawal from Iraq, but he is expected soon to receive proposals for possible changes in U.S. policy in Iraq from a bipartisan panel.
Saudi Arabia, the world's biggest oil producer and exporter and a close U.S. ally, fears Shi'ite Iran has been gaining influence since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq toppled Saddam Hussein's government.
U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney held talks with Saudi King Abdullah in Riyadh on Saturday. Details were not disclosed.
Obaid said Cheney's visit "underlines the pre-eminence of Saudi Arabia in the region and its importance to U.S. strategy in Iraq."
He said if the United States begins withdrawing from Iraq, "one of the first consequences will be massive Saudi intervention to stop Iranian-backed Shi'ite militias from butchering Iraqi Sunnis."
Obaid listed three options being considered by the Saudi government:
- providing "Sunni military leaders (primarily ex-Baathist members of the former Iraqi officer corps, who make up the backbone of the insurgency) with the same types of assistance", including funding and arms.
- establishing new Sunni brigades to combat the Iranian-backed militias;
- or the Saudi king "may decide to strangle Iranian funding of the militias through oil policy. If Saudi Arabia boosted production and cut the price of oil in half ... it would be devastating to Iran ... The result would be to limit Tehran's ability to continue funnelling hundreds of millions each year to Shi'ite militias in Iraq and elsewhere."
#2
Will intervene? Fire the Reuters editor who missed that verb tense error. Saudi money, materiel and manpower have been flowing into Iraq -- both officially and unofficially, as soon as the 2003 invasion was complete. As for flooding the oil market, I thought Saudi Arabia has been pumping at near maximum capacity, and with less foreign technical support since the local Al Qaeda cadres wne on a murder spree at the compounds housing high level resident aliens a few years ago. I keep waiting to hear that Saudi equipment has been irreparably damaged due to sand in the gears or something...
#4
I don't believe Saudistan has the capacity to flood the oil market, they are max'd out, the only capacity they have is to cut down on oil supply -- this threat would definitely have the US quaking in its boots. Perhaps this threat has already been secretly conveyed to Bush, and this may explain the weird US policy in Iraq at the moment.
From troops on the ground to members of Congress, Americans increasingly blame the continuing violence and destruction in Iraq on the people most affected by it: the Iraqis.
Even Democrats who have criticized the Bush administration's conduct of the occupation say the people and government of Iraq are not doing enough to rebuild their society. The White House is putting pressure on the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, and members of the bipartisan Iraq Study Group have debated how much to blame Iraqis for not performing civic duties.
This marks a shift in tone from earlier debate about the responsibility of the United States to restore order after the 2003 invasion, and it seemed to gain currency in October, when sectarian violence surged. Some see the talk of blame as the beginning of the end of U.S. involvement.
"It is the first manifestation of a 'Who lost Iraq?' argument that will likely rage for years to come," said Bruce Hoffman, a Georgetown University expert on terrorism who has worked as a U.S. government consultant in Iraq.
Americans and Iraqis are increasingly seeing the situation in different terms, said retired Army Col. Jeffrey D. McCausland , who recently returned from a visit to Iraq. "We're just talking past each other," he said, adding that Americans are psychologically edging toward the door that leads to disengagement. "We're arguing about 'cut and run' versus 'cut and jog.' "
Iraqis' role in their own suffering has been an issue since shortly after the fall of Saddam Hussein in April 2003, when looters ransacked the national museum and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld dismissed it by saying, "Stuff happens." But more than three years later, with schools and hospitals struggling, electrical service faltering, and police and government agencies infiltrated by sectarian death squads, the question of blame is more urgent.
For example, a Nov. 15 meeting of the Senate Armed Services Committee turned into a festival of bipartisan Iraqi-bashing.
"We should put the responsibility for Iraq's future squarely where it belongs -- on the Iraqis," began Sen. Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.), the committee's next chairman. "We cannot save the Iraqis from themselves." He has advocated announcing that U.S. troops are going to withdraw as a way of pressuring Iraqi politicians to find compromises.
Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) followed by noting: "People in South Carolina come up to me in increasing numbers and suggest that no matter what we do in Iraq, the Iraqis are incapable of solving their own problems through the political process and will resort to violence, and we need to get the hell out of there."
"We all want them to succeed," agreed Sen. Evan Bayh (D-Ind.). "We all want them to be able to stabilize their country with the assistance that we've provided them." But, he added, "too often they seem unable or unwilling to do that."
Later the same day, members of the House Armed Services Committee took their turn. "If the Iraqis are determined and decide to destroy themselves and their country, I don't know how in the world we're going to stop them," said Rep. Robin Hayes (R-N.C.).
Iraqi Ambassador Samir Sumaidaie said he worries about the growing chorus of official voices blaming Iraq, and suggested that a little introspection on the U.S. side could help.
#1
Even Democrats who have criticized the Bush administration's conduct of the occupation say the people and government of Iraq are not doing enough to rebuild their society.
It's call a self fulfilling prophecy. They saw the wonderful job the Donks did in Vietnam cut and run, so why should they stick their neck out just to tick off the next Big Man(tm) to run things. And you're on script as we type.
#3
I have a dream.
Dybua fires all his ivy league, pol. sci PhD advisers and requests the heads of the Five Families to take these positions for the duration.
The Lebanese group Hezbollah denied yesterday that it was training fighters from the Mehdi Army, an Iraqi Shiite militia blamed in sectarian killings in the war-torn country. The New York Times on Monday quoted a senior US intelligence official who said the Iranian-backed Hezbollah had been providing training for the Mehdi Army. The anonymous official told the Times that 1,000 to 2,000 Shiite fighters had been trained by Hezbollah in Lebanon and in Iran.
Hussain Rahhal, Hezbollah's media chief, called the report baseless, saying it was part of a US intelligence campaign circulated by the American media to vilify the group. "These accusations are hollow and worthless. They reflect the American occupation's impasse in Iraq, where it is trying to blame others for its defeat," Rahhal told The Associated Press.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/29/2006 00:00 ||
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Unidentified gunmen on Wednesday attacked several Internet cafes in the Gaza Strip with hand-propelled grenades and explosive devices. The attacks occurred simultaneously and caused heavy damages to the cafes. No one was hurt.
Although no group claimed responsibility for the attacks, some of the owners accused Muslim fundamentalists who have been waging a campaign against Internet cafes and surfers.
"Some fanatics are unhappy with the fact that many young people have access to the Internet," one of the owners told The Jerusalem Post. "They claim that the Internet is corrupting young people because it exposes them to Western values and culture and pornographic sites." and your point?
Another owner, Ala Shawwa, described the attacks as a "cowardly act." He estimated losses to his Internet café at $3,000, noting that the place had been entirely destroyed.
Nabil al-Atleh, owner of Coffee Net in the center of Gaza City, said the attacks occurred just before dawn prayers in local mosques. He said all 30 computers in his center were destroyed and that the total damage was estimated at over $5,000.
One guy says he lost $3000 when (he says) his entire internet cafe was destroyed. Another claims $5000 in losses when (he says) 30 computers were destroyed. That works out to $167 per computer. Let me repeat: $167 per computer!?!
Does. Not. Compute.
In Rafah, arsonists set fire to a shop selling cassettes and CDs. The owner, Farid Awad, said he masked gunmen had warned him in the past against marketing modern music and songs.
"Those who are behind these attacks are trying to turn Palestine into a Taliban-style country, where people were executed for watching TV," said a Fatah official. "What will the next move be? Are they going to confiscate satellite
dishes and radio stations from our homes?"
Because most residents cannot afford to purchase a personal computer, several Internet cafes have popped up in various parts of the Gaza Strip in the past few months.
#4
That works out to $167 per computer. Let me repeat: $167 per computer!?!
They're not likely to be the latest-and-greatest.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/29/2006 20:40 Comments ||
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#5
Well, no, probably not... but the local techie/independent small businessman that I found (through a search service, and who has been very nice and understanding about my various tech-related woes) sold me a rehabbed computer unit(exclusive of monitor, etc) for about $200. He sold the small business I worked for another higher-quality computer for $350...So, OK, I am poor. Deal!! It works and I have internet, that's all I ask.
So, considering all that... it could very well be that his computers were about that value.
Syrian Special Forces and Hizbullah guerrilla cells will begin playing a prominent role in IDF training sessions for its infantry units in the near future.
According to a plan developed by Brig.-Gen. Uzi Moskowitz, commander of the Ze'elim Training Base in southern Israel, the IDF will establish a "Red Unit" which will study enemy tactics and impersonate Hizbullah guerrillas, Hamas fighters or Syrian ground troops during exercises.
Until now, every battalion that arrived at Ze'elim for training would set aside a company assigned the enemy role for the duration of the exercise. The company however was not trained in enemy tactics and as a result the soldiers they fought against did not experience the real enemy. In addition, the company impersonating the enemy missed out on essential parts of the exercise. Hey TW, told you the matter is being attended.
#1
Todah rabah, gromgoru. You are a dear for remembering. :-) And now Hizb'allah, Hamas and Syria will have to worry that the newbie just assigned to their unit is actually an undercover IDF soldier putting polish on his training.
#4
Not so much of an issue there, USN, ret. After all, even the Palestinian experts mostly land their rockets within the borders of the Gaza Strip, or in the Sinai desert -- according to figures given in another thread today, only about a third actually make it into Israel.
#6
understand TW, but the mere act of the launch would be ( in the Paleos half dead mind) enough to flush out any double agents. It is entirely possible that the rockets that don't make it are or have been 'fixed' by the doule agents themselves (part of the GAZA OJT syllabus, build yer own)
Israel is JUST NOW forming an OPFOR?
Fricking amateurs, if you asked me. Their intel units have MORE than enough info and turncoats to establish a training manual.
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said on Tuesday evening that "we are a little disappointed by the continuation of Kassam rocket fire at the South by the Palestinians." "A little disappointed"?
Speaking at a meeting with European Union envoys at the Finnish Embassy, Olmert added, "I hope very much that the Palestinians will honor their obligations and stop the fire." Figger the odds.
Mere hours after Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Dan Halutz sought to deflect responsibility for the cease-fire in the Gaza Strip Tuesday, terrorists violated the day-old cease-fire by firing two Kassam rockets at Sderot. Both rockets hit an open area without causing casualties. "The IDF played only a partial role in the decision to reach a cease-fire agreement with the Palestinians," Halutz told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee Tuesday morning. He said terrorists would attempt to exploit the truce and use it to rearm. He's not quite brain dead, apparently.
In recent months, senior security establishment officials have argued against a cease-fire, saying it would only serve the Palestinian side. MKs on the panel said the army chief's statement could be interpreted as criticism of the political echelon. Halutz said the army would continue to operate in the West Bank despite the fact that Palestinians were "trying to equate" IDF operations there with those in the Gaza Strip. "It is important that the IDF maintains its freedom of maneuver in the West Bank," he said.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/29/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Bring back Sharon. Even in a coma he's smarter than this guy.
#9
Consider us here at Rantburg, at least, thoroughly prepared.
Masterful understatement, tw. I can only imagine how Olmert is equally disappointed that the sun continues to rise in the east. A wet dishrag has more spine than this Israeli jellyfish.
#11
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said on Tuesday evening that "we are a little disappointed by the continuation of Kassam rocket fire at the South by the Palestinians."
Not exactly a master of understatement like when Rummy said certain nations were being "unhelpful." Olmert makes milquetoast look threatening.
The defense establishment plans to make an official decision in the coming days to invest $300 million in an anti-Kassam and anti-Katyusha defense system under development by Rafael - Israel's Armament Development Authority, The Jerusalem Post has learned.
According to the plan, a combination of a laser and an anti-Kassam missile interceptor will be operational for deployment outside the Gaza Strip within a year and a half. According to a high-ranking defense official involved in the decision-making process, despite heavy public and international pressure, a committee led by Defense Ministry Director-General Gabi Ashkenazi has decided not to invest in the Skyguard anti-missile laser system, developed and manufactured by US defense contractor Northrop Grumman.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/29/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
It's called "cluster bombs dropped on launch sites, machine shops, and Paleo gun-sex parties".
Posted by: Rob Crawford ||
11/29/2006 8:04 Comments ||
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#2
Odd, unless Raytheon is a subsidiary of Grumman, why would they not mention the company which is providing counter-battery systems to the US and which supplied them with Patriots from which they developed the Arrow?
The AN/TPQ-36 and AN/TPQ-37 certainly seem suited to the katyushas and qassams... "Over 350 Firefinder radars are in use today by seventeen nations." - so it's prolly not an export issue...
Hmmm. So is the markup is astronomical... or is this another "We can do it better!" (piggy-backing off US designs) thingy which gromgoru gets all puffy about... or is this article disingenuous BS?
#5
These rockets are essentially big bottle rockets that can be fired with a timer. Counterbattery fire is of little use except for vengance. Not that there is anything wrong with that per se, but it does have PR consequences.
Typical firing drill is prop up the launch rail on cinder blocks in the middle of baby duck farm, set the timer and drive off. When the counterbattery arrives, the perps are long gone and the world is ranting about those evil baby-duck-killing joos. The low rent version of this scenario replaces the cheap Sears timer with an even cheaper and stupider shaheed.
Let me put on my Mr. Cynical hat and say the good thing about this scenario is it will drive the development of active defenses against tactical missils and mortars.
#6
This is not My field of expertise, .com, but I believe the requirements are different. Counter-battery is slower and isn't real-time, but requires higher accuracy since you can't correct the CB fire. CB is still successful is the fire is launch after the incoming rounds hit (but it's obviously better to launch before). Some of the latest US CB systems can actually send rockets back before the first incoming shell has hit, but it's not necessary to mission success. Unfortunately, under Carter Olmert, Israel doesn't seem to be in the counter-attacking mode.
Pure defense is a whole different animal. Now, obviously, you have to compute and launch before the rounds hit for the system to be of any value. However, accuracy isn't quite as important, as the interceptor can correct in mid-flight. While Raytheon had developed a system to intercept anti-tank rockets, I don't know if that could be adapted to this purpose. Patriot would work, but costs so much more than the Kassam that "success" would bankrupt the country.
Of course, carpet-bombing the population centers would work even better.
#7
Okay, I'm no CB expert... but these certainly sound like a fit for those POS rockets:
"AN/TPQ-36 Firefinder is a highly mobile medium range 3-D radar system that rapidly locates hostile artillery, mortars, and rocket launchers. Operating at X (I/J) band, it can detect and report positions of up to 10 different weapons in seconds, at a maximum range of 24 kilometers."
"AN/TPQ-37 Firefinder is a long-range 3-D weapon-locating radar system with double the performance of the AN/TPQ-36, locating long-range weapons out to 50 km. When long-range surface to surface missiles must be located, a special 60-degree sector mode extends the AN/TPQ-37's range even further. The AN/TPQ-37 operates at S (F) band"
#8
#2 Poor .com. It took him a long time to accept that Bush doesn't know that his doing. It'll, if at all, take him much longer to accept that there's a qualitative difference between IMI and "bribe the procurment officer" US weapon manufacturers.
#9
Jackal: Add me to your carpet bombing write in vote tally! And just for grins, mix in a bit of cluster bombs and a little bit of FAE as a chaser (fuel-air explosive, a kindler, gentler replacement for napalm).
#11
Again, the problem with the AN/TQP-36 and -37 is probably that they are too slow because they need to get an accuracy which a defensive weapon would not need.
Probably. I know nothing about these specific systems except what's in Janes (and we know how reliable that is).
#12
I'm of the Mongol persuasion - if they attack, wipe out everything within 10 miles of the attack launch point. Even the paleos aren't stupid enough to continue after you do that ten or twenty times. Or maybe they are...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/29/2006 21:35 Comments ||
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Israel has agreed in principle to let Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas send a security force loyal to him into Gaza, where a fragile truce is in effect, an Israeli diplomatic source said yesterday. As part of efforts to bolster the moderate Palestinian leader, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will meet Abbas in the West Bank town of Jericho tomorrow, Palestinian officials said. The request to redeploy the 1,000-strong Jordan-based Badr Brigade, the source said, came from Abbas, whose declaration with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Sunday of a ceasefire in the tinderbox territory has stirred hopes of peace talks. "Basically, we have agreed, though it has not yet been officially released," the source said. "The request came through before the ceasefire, but certainly this could boost the truce."
A senior Abbas aide said full agreement was not yet secured. "We have asked, but we await the official and full details of the Israeli response," negotiator Saeb Erekat said.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/29/2006 00:00 ||
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"...send a security force loyal to him into Gaza..."
Has there ever been a better statement that shows the Paleos as nothing more than organized crime families? Every time I hear things like this I think of "going to the mattresses", Bugsy & Al & Lucky.
Pope Benedict on Wednesday embarked on a second mission in Turkey, to improve ties between Catholic and Orthodox Christians, after winning praise for his conciliatory views on Islam and the country's future in Europe. Benedict and Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, the spiritual head of the world's 250 million Orthodox, both want to take steps to heal the split dating from the Great Schism of 1054.
In a gesture showing their close ties, Bartholomew took the unusual step of welcoming the Pope at Istanbul airport as he arrived from saying mass in Ephesus in southwestern Turkey. Benedict, who earlier on Wednesday visited a house near Ephesus said to be where the Virgin Mary died, won widespread praise in local media for backing Ankara's bid to join the European Union and saying Islam was a peaceful faith. He's the Pope. He's supposed to be polite.
The Iraqi wing of al Qaeda was not pleased, however. Whoa! Never saw that one coming!
It said on a website his visit was part of a crusade against Islam aimed at pulling Turkey out of the Muslim world and into "the quagmire of secularism". The Vatican spokesman said neither the Pope nor his entourage are worried but that al Qaeda's message confirmed the urgent need for a common commitment against the use of violence.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/29/2006 15:44 ||
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pulling Turkey out of the Muslim world and into "the quagmire of secularism"
US military defense scientists have found a way to train the common honey bee to smell explosives used in bombs, a skill they say could help protect American troops abroad.
Scientists at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico said in an online statement published Monday they had developed a method to harness the bee's exceptional olfactory sense. "The new techniques could become a leading tool in the fight against the use of improvised explosive devices, or IEDs, which present a critical vulnerability for American military troops abroad and is an emerging danger for civilians worldwide," the research laboratory said.
The scientists used Pavlovian techniques on the bees' natural response to nectar, a sticking out of their tongue, or proboscis extension reflex.
By rewarding them with sugar water, the scientists taught bees to give the same reflex action when they were exposed to vapors from explosives such as dynamite, C4 plastic and TATP (triacetone triperoxide), often used by suicide bombers. "Scientists have long marveled at the honey bee's phenomenal sense of smell, which rivals that of dogs," said Tim Haarmann, principal investigator for the Stealthy Insect Sensor Project. "But previous attempts to harness and understand this ability were scientifically unproven. With more knowledge, our team thought we could make use of this ability."
As part of the research, the scientists sought to isolate genetic and physiological differences between those bees with good an acute sense of smell and those without it.
Posted by: John Belushi ||
11/29/2006 8:33 Comments ||
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#6
Naw, the new uniforms will be black and orange with great big wings on the back. They've hired some guy who calls himself The Monarch to design them.
Posted by: Rob Crawford ||
11/29/2006 8:37 Comments ||
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#7
RC: If you combine the two programs, you would have a unit with the motto (I hope My Latin is right)
Volta sicut papilio, punge sicut apis.
#9
anon hits it! We should spread this news and the Jooooos news of cyberwasps far and wide on al-Jizz, then release hundreds of angry bees into Baghdad and al-Sadr City. Watch 'em squirm!
Posted by: BA ||
11/29/2006 15:40 Comments ||
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This is an old StrategyPage article, but interesting in that it addresses one of the issues we've been discussing here off and on for a long time: the turnover of Al Qaeda management (referred to here at Rantburg as #3s) and the effect thereof on training and overall organizational effectiveness.
February 27, 2006: Al Qaeda is having increasing problems with ethnic frictions. There was always a problem with the Arabs, who founded, and largely run, al Qaeda, being disdainful of non-Arab recruits, and non-Arab members. The Arabs tend to have an attitude problem. Not only do they feel that Arabs are superior, in general, to everyone else, but they also project a "more-Islamic-than-thou" vibe that really irritates non-Arabs. This has always been a problem, even though the senior al Qaeda Arabs tried to make every recruit feel welcome.
The current problem comes from the fact that all of the original al Qaeda senior leadership is either dead, arrested or in hiding. Dealing with new recruits is left to middle management. These fellows are nearly all Arabs, and often recent replacements for more experienced operators who are dead or arrested. The people dealing with new recruits often have to do it under stressful conditions, and this does not make the experience very welcoming for the new guys. It quickly becomes obvious that new Arab, particularly Saudi, recruits are seen as more promising than the others, especially the non-Arab others. The recruits are usually young men, and the Arab recruits take the cue and begin razzing the non-Arabs. Often, this induces the non-Arabs to just leave. The misbehaving Arab recruits are rarely punished, although the most abusive of them may be encouraged to undertake a "martyrdom" (suicide) mission. Office politics in al Qaeda can get rough.
To live peacefully with Muslims and Jews, Christians must put aside the notion that their faith requires the creation of a Christian kingdom on Earth, a Lipscomb University theologian told an interfaith gathering at the university.
"We are not going to get very far in our relationship with Jews or Muslims if we do not let go of this idea," Lipscomb professor Lee Camp (AKA Dhimmi Lee Camp) said at Tuesday's conference.
The unusual gathering of several dozen clergy and lay people was devoted to resolving religious conflict in Nashville and around the world.
"We need to forsake the Christendom model," Camp said. "The most basic Christian commitment is that we say we believe in the Lordship of Jesus. But, if we claim that, how can a Muslim or Jew trust us, if we say Jesus is the Lord of all Lords?"
Co-sponsored by the First Amendment Center at Vanderbilt University, the daylong conference was prompted by a desire to begin a dialogue about global religious conflict.
After five years of rising gas prices, disturbing privacy issues that followed the Sept. 11 attacks and the fear of terrorism, it became apparent that everyday life in Nashville is directly affected by religious conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, conference organizers said.
"We felt like the larger community is calling for this," said Larry Bridgesmith, executive director of Lipscomb's newly established Institute for Conflict Management.
Panelists representing different faiths presented their own views on how to begin to bridge the religious divide.
For Kahled Sakalla, a spokesman for the Islamic Center of Nashville, some of the answers lie in better education about Islam in the non-Muslim world.
Allah, the God Muslims worship, is the same God Christians and Jews worship, and the Quran recounts the same biblical stories of Mary and Jesus, he said.
"Yes, we have differences, but it's important to focus on commonalities," said Sakalla, one of four panelists representing different faiths who addressed the Lipscomb conference.
Mark Schiftan, rabbi of the Temple in Belle Meade, said he also believes people of faith must begin to look for common ground.
"If all of us believe we were created in God's image, then we have to believe that everyone else is also created in God's image," Schiftan said.
Charles McGowan, president of the Christian group Operation Andrew said: "It's important to us in Nashville that we be proactive. Religious leaders must engage one another if we are going to experience in this city the peace and calm we all desire."
But the issues that have divided the world's religions for millennia are so deep and fundamental ranging from the question of whether the land of Israel rightfully belongs to the Jews and whether there is one way to salvation that tackling them will require both dialogue with other faiths and a more introspective look at one's own beliefs, panelists said.
Some liberal theologians have suggested that different faiths are all variations on one another and that beliefs are all basically the same, a position with which Camp deeply disagrees.
Instead, he believes, Christians must not back away from their beliefs but further examine them and their own history.
First, Christians must examine their "sins of omission," he said such as not taking the time to learn about other religions. Then they must look at their "sins of commission."
"We have such short historical (memory) spans as white Christians," he said. "There is a history of anti-Semitism, the violence and bloodshed of the crusades and cultural imperialism. We have to deal with the reality of what Christians have done, which in some cases has been to kill people."
Camp described himself as a conservative Christian but conceded his opinions may be viewed as "radical" by other evangelical Christians.
Christians must shed the idea that they need to promulgate a worldwide Christianity, he said.
"If I hold to a model of Jesus what I've committed to in my baptism is loving my enemy," Lee said. "I'm committed to not killing you, but to serving and honoring you. It's an exclusive commitment to the way of Christ, not to the exclusive authority of Christ."
Sakalla said there may never be reconciliation on the fundamental theological divisions.
"Every religion has different teachings," he said. "For Muslims, it's: Do you believe in one God and that Muhammad" is his prophet? "I don't think we can teach individuals that the way you go to heaven in other religions is OK. You have to teach differences."
#1
"We need to forsake the Christendom model," Camp said. "The most basic Christian commitment is that we say we believe in the Lordship of Jesus. But, if we claim that, how can a Muslim or Jew trust us, if we say Jesus is the Lord of all Lords?"
Can anyone translate that for me?
Particularly the trust bit. I have a feeling Camp would go apeshit if I were to say "how can Christians trust Muslims, when they say Jesus was not the Son of God?"
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/29/2006 20:38 Comments ||
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#2
This guy is a Professor? Accepting that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who sacrified himself for us is the very core of Christianity.
And no, the God of Mohammand is not the same as the God of Christians and Jews - no matter what the Koran says. If you look Allah and, at least the christian God are almost the exact opposite.
Jesus taught love and forgiveness grace and truth. Allan teaches hatred, unforgivness, and falsehood. Jesus said 'Love your enemy' Allah says 'Kill your enenmy - strike off their head!', and to lie.
#3
There is a defiant core of radical clergy who insist that Jesus was not divine. They are often liberation theologists who also believe that Christianity is the same as socialism.
#4
Lee said: "I'm committed to not killing you STOP TAPE! ( can't hear over all the Islamo-laughing in the background), "but to serving and honoring you. STOP TAPE! Well, the Muzzies oughta love that bit of dhimmi idiocy--'they're gonna serve us and LIKE IT! . . . "It's an exclusive commitment to the way of Christ, not to the exclusive authority of Christ." STOP TAPE! Why be committed to the "way" of Christ, if He has no authority?
Soldiering is an entirely different matter than one's personal relationships (in reference to loving one's enemies), and this is of course, taken out of context for the sake of deconstructing Christianity so that Islam can gain the upper hand (oops--boot).
Also: "put aside the notion that their faith requires the creation of a Christian kingdom on Earth . . . "
Huh? Jesus said His kingdom is NOT of this world. No one can "create" a "Christian kingdom" on Earth, unless he's somehow clandestinely referring to the US.
The Islamofacists just LOVE idiot theologians, journalists, and politicians, and especially love it when the aforementioned become unofficial official spokespeople in support of Islam or Islamic political aspirations.
#7
Amen, OS. And, that's spoken as a Protestant. Much like the Methodists who want to divest any money from Israel to the new-age, "all ways lead to Heaven" type teachings, God's Word has been misinterpreted widely.
Ex-lib nails it on the soldiering part. Note that Jesus came into contact with numerous soldiers (Roman), yet he NEVER condemned them for the act of soldiering, just for their "personal" sins. In fact, he didn't condemn them at all, but gave them hope and told them "go and sin no more."
This ALL goes back to a family squabble in the Old Testament. I found this out by riding with 2 Muslims who tried this "Our god, Allah, is the same as your God" crap. Nope! They believe that Ishmael was the chosen seed (instead of Isaac), that Ishmael was the one whom Abraham took up on the mountain to sacrifice, and, thus believe they (descendants of Ishmael, who was a bastard child born of Hagar, Abraham's wife's maidservant) are the "rightful heirs" of all of God's promises.
The Jews and Christians both believe that Isaac and his seed were the chosen of God, and thus, are more tightly wound together in terms of theology. If God is a perfect God, He would not tell you to convert others at the tip of the sword, much less sanction lying to get ahead. Jesus came to fulfill the law, and yet, Muslims believe in an overabundance of laws (down to which shoe to tie first, which hand to wipe with, etc.). HUGE differences we'll never get over theologically.
Posted by: BA ||
11/29/2006 21:41 Comments ||
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#8
. . . Christians must put aside the notion that their faith requires the creation of a Christian kingdom on Earth . . .
'Scuse me, Perfesser, but who taught you theology? Ever heard of "My kingdom is not of this world"? "Be in the world, but not of it?"
Posted by: Mike ||
11/29/2006 21:56 Comments ||
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#9
--- What a crock of crap. The idea that Christendom was some kind of earthly kingdom died a very hard death in the religious wars after 1517. A big chunk of the population of what is now Germany died with it.
--- The Quran DENIES the Biblical stories of Mary and Jesus. They are included more as a tool to recruit naive Christians into Islam. Those who say: The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son, preach a monstrous falsehood, at which the very heavens might crack, the earth break asunder, and the mountains crumble to dust. That they should ascribe a son to the Merciful, when it does not become the Lord of Mercy to beget one! Quran 19:88 This completely contradicts John 3:16.
I'm committed to not killing you, but to serving and honoring you.
Christianity is not a suicide pact. Maybe some Christians are called to be absolute pacifists and to renounce the right to self-defense, but most are not. When someone really wants to either kill or conquer you, how "far in our relationship" should we go?
This is part of a much wider process of self-education by millions of people as they look into what truly matters for them, where they stand, and what ground they will defend.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
This is common ground that religious adherents of various sorts, agnostics, and atheists (who can just ignore the Creator part of the quote) can conceivably agree on. Muslims who want Sharia, Jihad, and death for apostasy and blasphemy can't agree with that until they give up those beliefs, which are key to traditional Islam. They can 'let go' of those beliefs for all I care, it's not my problem unless they try to force those values on me.
#11
Beautifully said, Anguper Hupomosing9418. :-) A useful thread all around, guys! Professor Camp is clearly several different kinds of idiot, and ought not be allowed out without a minder.
#12
There is a defiant core of radical clergy who insist that Jesus was not divine.
While I freely acknowledge that Jesus did indeed exist, I have my own personal doubts that he was of divine origin. Guess what? This in no way precludes Christ's ability to have channeled the words of whatever God may exist. Much of what Jesus had to say has, fairly well, eternal application, much to His credit.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
This is common ground that religious adherents of various sorts, agnostics, and atheists (who can just ignore the Creator part of the quote) can conceivably agree on.
No need to recommend that agnostics and atheists "ignore the creator part of the quote", Anguper Hupomosing9418. Even the most fierce athiest must surely (and don't call me Shirley), acknowledge that some sort of Creative process is at work, even if it is just (quite the understatement), Mother Nature weaving her incredible tapestry of organic life.
My only amendment to the above quote is this:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal in the eyes of the law
Otherwise, I remain in eternal awe at the prescience and foresight of America's founding fathers. Their combined insight and anticipation of much that would follow in world history is simply breathtaking.
#13
This guy makes no sense, for all the reasons expressed in the comments. I'm not Catholic, but B16 is on to something with his contrast of reason and unreason separating the faiths, and Churchill's comments about the strong arms of science ring true as well.
Confused, addled professors are not new under the sun.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Omar al-Bashir, the president of Sudan, has said there is no humanitarian crisis in Darfur and that less than 9,000 people had been killed there during the four years of conflict. He disputed the findings of latest reports on the situation in the region, rejected talk of genocide and said violence stemmed from tribal tensions and drought. 
GENEVA - The U.N. Human Rights Council rejected on Tuesday an attempt to hold the Sudanese government responsible for halting atrocities in Darfur, 
South Korea's former North-South unification minister, a possible 2007 presidential contender, 
At United Nations headquarters, Secretary General Kofi Annan likes to imply that the Oil-for-Food era is over (If there was a scandal was his locution earlier this year). But Down Under, that landmark U.N. scam is right now all over the headlines. On Monday, Australias Cole commission released the findings of its year-long inquiry into some $220 million in kickbacks allegedly paid by the Australian Wheat Board (AWB) to Saddam Husseins U.N.-sanctioned regime under Oil-for-Food.
"No red carpet for the Pope" said one Turkish headline today and indeed there were no banners, portraits or flag waving crowds of the kind you normally see on papal trips abroad as Pope Benedict XVI arrived for the most hazardous and delicate trip of his pontificate so far. But equally, despite noisy protests against the Popes visit over the past few days and threats of violence, the streets of Ankara were also devoid of demonstrators, partly because of a ferocious security clampdown by Turkish police. 
In a decision that could roil Democratic unity in the new House, Speaker-to-be Nancy Pelosi passed over Rep. Alcee Hastings Tuesday for the chairmanship of the Intelligence Committee. Hastings, currently the No. 2 Democrat on the panel, had been aggressively making a case for the top position, supported by members of the Congressional Black Caucus. 
RALEIGH - A Wake County judge gave the go-ahead Monday for a wrongful death lawsuit filed by the families of four men who were killed, and whose bodies were publicly burned and hung, in Fallujah, Iraq, in 2004.
A special bipartisan panel
A federal judge struck down President Bush's authority to designate groups as terrorists, saying his post-Sept. 11 executive order was unconstitutionally vague, according to a ruling released Tuesday. The Humanitarian Law Project had challenged Bush's order, which blocked all the assets of groups or individuals he named as "specially designated global terrorists" after the 2001 terrorist attacks.
BLOOMINGTON, Ind. (AP) - The FBI is discontinuing an investigation into an Indiana University computer security student whose Web page included a way for people to print fake Northwest Airlines boarding passes.
Hizb-ul-Mujahideen has slammed doors on Pandits' return to their homes in the Kashmir Valley. Frightened of militancy, the Pandits had fled their homeland 17 years ago. Hizb-ul-Mujahideen's supreme commander Syed Salaha-ud-Din has stated that, "time was not ripe for the return of Kashmiri Pandits to the Valley." "The return at this juncture would create complications," he told Srinagar-based news agency CNS on Monday. However, he did not elaborate the "complications". 
Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front chairman Mohammad Yasin Malik has declared that his opening of office in downtown Srinagar on Sunday was part of his plans to "motivate youth for resistance through politics rather than guns." He says his inspiration in enrolling the youth of Kashmir for political resistance developing for our cause was Edward Said, a PalestinianAmerican literary theorist and an outspoken advocate of Palestinian cause. Said was a strong champion of the cause of Palestinians.
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WASHINGTON Military advisers are considering shifting U.S. troops around within Iraq, but the United States has no intention of throwing in the towel to Al-Anbar, the most violent of Iraq's 18 provinces, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Peter Pace said Wednesday.
WASHINGTON, Nov 29 (Reuters) - Using money, weapons or its oil power, Saudi Arabia will intervene to prevent Iranian-backed Shi'ite militias from massacring Iraqi Sunni Muslims once the United States begins pulling out of Iraq, a security adviser to the Saudi government said on Wednesday.
From troops on the ground to members of Congress, Americans increasingly blame the continuing violence and destruction in Iraq on the people most affected by it: the Iraqis.
The Lebanese group Hezbollah denied yesterday that it was training fighters from the Mehdi Army, an Iraqi Shiite militia blamed in sectarian killings in the war-torn country. The New York Times on Monday quoted a senior US intelligence official who said the Iranian-backed Hezbollah had been providing training for the Mehdi Army. The anonymous official told the Times that 1,000 to 2,000 Shiite fighters had been trained by Hezbollah in Lebanon and in Iran. 
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said on Tuesday evening that "we are a little disappointed by the continuation of Kassam rocket fire at the South by the Palestinians." 
Israel has agreed in principle to let Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas send a security force loyal to him into Gaza, where a fragile truce is in effect, an Israeli diplomatic source said yesterday. As part of efforts to bolster the moderate Palestinian leader, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will meet Abbas in the West Bank town of Jericho tomorrow, Palestinian officials said. The request to redeploy the 1,000-strong Jordan-based Badr Brigade, the source said, came from Abbas, whose declaration with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Sunday of a ceasefire in the tinderbox territory has stirred hopes of peace talks. "Basically, we have agreed, though it has not yet been officially released," the source said. "The request came through before the ceasefire, but certainly this could boost the truce."
US military defense scientists have found a way to train the common honey bee to smell explosives used in bombs, a skill they say could help protect American troops abroad.
