Bush, Other Top Officials Should Face Torture Probes, Says Amnesty; Urges Arrests if Warranted
Abid Aslam
OneWorld US
Thu., May. 26, 2005
WASHINGTON, D.C., May 26 (OneWorld) - Rights watchdog Amnesty International urged foreign governments Wednesday to investigate and prosecute President George W. Bush much as they once did former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet.
''If the United States permits the architects of torture policy to get off scot-free, then other nations should step into the breach,'' William Schulz, executive director of Amnesty International USA, said in a statement launching Amnesty's annual report. How odd that Schulz is so convinced of their guilt in one sentence while asserting the lack of a competent investigation in the next. I thought these people were great intellectuals.
Bush is among a dozen former or current U.S. officials who should be probed by foreign governments because Washington has failed to conduct ''a genuinely independent and comprehensive investigation'' of torture allegations against U.S. troops, commanders, and their civilian overseers, Schulz said.
The implicit assumption here is that no US body, including many dominated by members of the opposition Democratic Party, is competent to investigate these charges. It is also plain that Schulz, good fascist that he is, will reject any investigation that does not support his agenda. Why do Schulz and AI assume that foreign governments, meaning Eurocrats and their courts in this case, are competent to conduct this investigation while exactly analogous American bodies are not?
Others on the Amnesty list of potential targets for investigation and prosecution include Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, and former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) chief George Tenet.
''If the U.S. government continues to shirk its responsibility, Amnesty International calls on foreign governments to uphold their obligations under international law by investigating all senior U.S. officials involved in the torture scandal,'' Schulz said.
Again, Schulz and AI implicitly reject the independence of the US Congress and judiciary. With the exception of a couple of lowest-common-denominator Congress shills, neither of these entitites has made any move to impeach President Bush or even to seriously suggest that such a proceeding would be justified. According to AI, therefore, mainstream Democrats are either completely impotent or actively complicit in Bush's alleged crimes. This may not sit well with the core of their American constituency, the liberal upper-middle class.
As for actually arresting Bush, the combined armies and police forces of Eurabia could not fight their way from Galveston to Crawford in a hundred years even if civilians were the only opposition.
You want our leaders, Moonbats?
As Leonidas of Sparta said to the Persians who demanded that his men surrender their arms, MOLON LABE! ("come and take them)"
Of course, this time the power balance is reversed, and then some. I doubt that outclassed moonbats will hold out anything like as long as Leonidas and his men did. They can't run fast enough to avoid the same result though.
#2
Ya know, these leftists, Amnesty, MoveOn, eetc remind me of a cornered mammal. It's been hunted and hunted and foiled at every turn and now its back is against the wall.
These folks are spewing their bile at any and everything hoping something will stick and they can continue their advance.
It's sad really. Reminds me of interviews with those folks on the film "Reds:" folks whose lives were shaped by an idea and an ideal which ultimately turned out to be a huge and brutal lie.
Pretty pathetic, but in the meantime our current lefties will attempt to do all the damage they can before their media masters can no longer hide their own complicity in this madness.
So, in closing, let us pour a drink tonight and raise it in a solemn salute to all our veterans, especially the ones who dodged bullets/bombs, for their service in bringing us all to the verge of fully and finally eliminating this sickening ideology from any legitimacy it ever tried to claim it had.
#3
I'd ask you remind me why I should give one tenth of a damn what these morons think...but I'd rather save my energy for the toast to the Veterans, per badanov's suggestion!!
Semper Fi
p.s. Atomic Conspiracy, your comments reminded me of Jefferson's comments on the enemy within:
At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some trans-Atlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us with a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined with a Bonaparte at their head and disposing of all the treasure of the earth, our own excepted, could not by force make a track on the Blue Ridge or take a drink from the Ohio in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us it must spring up from amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we ourselves must be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we must live through all times, or die by suicide.
A U.S. Navy ship seized more than 4,200 pounds of hashish in the northern Arabian Sea, U.S. Central Command announced Friday. The USS Kauffman, a guided missile frigate, and the German frigate the FGS Karlsruhe tracked the vessel Al Naveed before it was boarded last Friday. The boarding team found the drugs in 96 large bags hidden behind a false bulkhead, Central Command said. It is the largest find to date, Centcom said.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/27/2005 2:51:42 PM ||
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#5
Think anybody would notice if "two tons" on the report got scratched out and something, er, smaller written in its place? ;)
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
05/27/2005 15:24 Comments ||
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#6
two kilos?
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/27/2005 15:53 Comments ||
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#7
INGREDIENTS:
* 2 1/4 cups all-purpose flour
* 1 tablespoon baking soda
* 1 cup butter
* 3/4 cup white sugar
* 3/4 cup packed brown sugar
* 1/4 cup peanut butter
* 3 eggs
* 3 tablespoons vanilla extract
* 1/2 cup chopped walnuts hashish (optional)
DIRECTIONS:
1. Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C).
2. Sift together the flour, and baking soda, set aside. In a medium bowl, cream the white sugar and brown sugar with the butter. Stir in the eggs, one at a time, then the vanilla and peanut butter. Add the dry ingredients to the creamed mixture and stir until combined. Finally, stir in the nuts.
3. Drop by heaping teaspoonfuls onto cookie sheets. Bake for 12 to 15 minutes in the preheated oven. Cool on wire racks. Makes 3-4 dozen.
Saudi Arabia's King Fahd has been admitted to hospital for medical tests, the official news agency SPA said.
"Hmmm... What's your diagnosis, doctor?"
"I think it might be rigor mortis!"
Saudi official sources said King Fahd had been running a fever and had water in his lungs which required hospitalisation.
"Then his temperature dropped abruptly, to approximately room temperature. It's been there all week."
"King Fahd entered King Faisal Specialist Hospital in Riyadh this evening to undergo an autopsy some medical examinations," SPA quoted a palace statement as saying. It gave no further details. "We ask God to keep and care for the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques and grant him health and wellbeing," the statement said.
Come to think of it, you never used to see Zark and King Fahd together, did you?
Posted by: Fred ||
05/27/2005 14:23 ||
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#1
I thought he was frozen in a clinic in Switzerland...?
Like, yeah, right--can't beat those excellent Saudi hospitals payed for by the clown princes' largesse!
Chechen rebel field commander Shamil Basayev has claimed responsibility for the power cut that caused major disruption in Moscow on Wednesday.
A statement on a website with links to the rebels said Basayev's men had attacked an electricity substation, causing the outage.
The cut paralysed public transport and left thousands without power.
Moscow has not responded to the claims, but, at the time, officials said sabotage was not to blame.
In his alleged message to the Kavkaz Center website, Basayev said that on 24-25 May "sabotage groups of mujahideen conducted a successful special operation in territory of Moscow and the Moscow district, having put out of action a power supply system of the Central region of Russia".
Moscow 'lies'
"Our sabotage groups have delivered a sensitive blow on one of the most important systems of ability to live of the Russian empire," he said. "The result of the special operation has surpassed our expectations."
He criticised the "lies" from the Russian authorities that the power cut was due to technical problems.
The head of Russia's energy monopoly Unified Energy System (UES), Anatoly Chubais, was questioned by prosecutors over the power cut.
They launched a criminal investigation into the outage, which the company blamed on an explosion and fire at an electricity substation.
Shamil Basayev is the most influential radical figure in the Chechen separatist movement and has been linked to the Beslan tragedy and the Moscow theatre siege.
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/27/2005 17:18 ||
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The United States closed all its diplomatic missions in Indonesia yesterday because of a security threat as police warned that militants linked to Al-Qaeda were planning an attack on an unspecified target. Police said they had strengthened protection at several other major embassies after the United States closed its four missions in Indonesia until further notice.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/27/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Didn't we just get done contributing billions of dollars to take care of these people after the horrible earth quake and tidal wave?
The leader of a United Nations investigation into the assassination of Lebanese former Prime Minister Rafik Al-Hariri arrived in Beirut yesterday and began his inquiries with a visit to the crime scene. Veteran German prosecutor Detlev Mehlis is also due to sign an agreement with the justice ministry and meet senior officials to prepare for the probe, judicial sources said. "I'm here on a very difficult mission," he told reporters on arrival. "My team and I will work to find the truth."
Mehlis arrived with four members of an overall team of around 50, which will include up to 40 investigators. The UN Security Council authorized an investigation into Hariri's Feb. 14 assassination after a UN fact-finding mission decided Lebanon's own inquiry was "seriously flawed". A UN resolution gives Mehlis three months to complete the investigation, although the Security Council can grant him an extra three months if he needs more time. Many Lebanese blamed Syria for Hariri's assassination in a truck bomb blast that killed at least 20 people in Beirut. Syria denied any involvement in the attack, which united Lebanon's disparate anti-Syrian opposition behind calls for Damascus to pull its troops and intelligence agents out of Lebanon after 29 years. The last Syrian troops left a month ago.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/27/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
"My team and I will work to find the truth."
They've from the UN, so I'm sure they'll be "investigating" among refugee women and children, and underage boys, in their "efforts" to find the murderers.
Yeah, that's the ticket....
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/27/2005 0:20 Comments ||
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#2
We would've sent the Irish guys back, but you should've seen the bar tabs we're still paying off...
Today, May 26, 2005, the Information Section of al-Qaeda in Iraq, through "its own special media channel (broadcasting) which is known to Muslims by the name Abu Maysara al-Iraqi," denies all claims, analyses, and statements that "were embraced by others, whether falsely delivered or concluded" about the recent report of injuries to al-Qaeda in Iraq leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
The message, which follows media reports that Zarqawi had died and appointed Abu Hafs al-Qarni as the acting leader, refutes all such news "about appointing he who is named "Abu Hafs," or any other name. Abu Maysara al-Iraqi states that the al-Qaeda's Information Section "only announced the injuries of our honorable Sheikh, in order to prove our credibility and for our brothers to be rest assured after what was disseminated that our Sheikh was killed."
"He's dead, Jim!"
"Lies! All lies! He ain't dead!"
"He's all blue, and his tongue's hanging out!"
"He does that all the time!"
This article starring:
ABU HAFS AL QARNI
al-Qaeda in Iraq
Posted by: Fred ||
05/27/2005 15:06 ||
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#1
HIP HIP HOORAY!! HIP HIP HOORAY!! HIP HIP HOORAY!! HIP HIP HOORAY!! HIP HIP HOORAY!! HIP HIP HOORAY!! HIP HIP HOORAY!! HIP HIP HOORAY!!
#3
" 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This Zarqawi is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-ZARQAWI!! "
Well, someone had to bring out the Monty Python reference! And don't tell me others weren't tempted...
#6
raze his family home in Jordan and wipe out his gene line - whoops! actually said what I thought....damn....Freudian Slipâ¢
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/27/2005 16:41 Comments ||
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#7
Sung to "Pore Jud is Daid" from "Oklahoma!"
Pore Zaq is daid,
Zaqawi is daid,
All gather 'round his corpse now and cry
He had a jihadi soul
And he wasn't very old
Oh why did such a feller have to die?
Pore Zaq is daid
Zaqawi is daid,
He's lookin' oh so peaceful and serene
(And serene!)
The virgins got him now
Pouring wine and peeling grapes
His fingernails have never been so clean!
(Spoken)
Then the Imam'd get up and he'd say:
(Chanting)
Folks, we are gathered here to moan and groan over our brother Zaqawi, Who dun got shot by a UAV in Southwest Falluja
(Spoken)
Then there'd be weepin' and wailin'... from some of those insurgents . Then he'd say:
(Chanting)
Jud was the most misunderstood man in this here territory. People used to think he was a mean ugly feller and they called him a beheading son of a gun
(Sung)
But the folks that really knowed him.
(Chant)
Knowed that beneath them two dirty shirts he always wore
(Sung)
He was really a beheading son of a gun
beheading son of a gun
Zaki hated all infidels
Zaki hated all infidels
(Spoken):
He loved the shiny long knives and the new AK47s. He loved the mice and the vermin in the Suinni triangle, and he treated
the rats like equals, which was right. And he loved little goats. He loved everybody and in Iraq who bowed low to him!
Only he never let on, so nobody ever knowed it.
(Sung)
Pore Zaq is Daid
Zaqawi is daid
His friends'll weep and wail for miles around
Miles Around!
The daisies in the dell
will give out a different smell
Because Pore Zaq is underneath the ground.
Pore Zaq is daid
A Candle lights his haid
He's layin' in a cawfin made of wood
Wood...
And folks are feelin' sad
Cause they useter treat him bad
But now they know their Zaqiâs gone for good
Good..
Pore Zaq is Daid a candle lights his haid!
He's lookin' oh so purty and so nice
He looks like he's asleep,
It's a shame that he won't keep
But it's summer and we're running out of ice.
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/27/2005 17:21 Comments ||
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#9
Since No one's posted it yet:
CUSTOMER: Here's one -- nine pence.
DEAD PERSON: I'm not dead!
MORTICIAN: What?
CUSTOMER: Nothing -- here's your nine pence.
DEAD PERSON: I'm not dead!
MORTICIAN: Here -- he says he's not dead!
CUSTOMER: Yes, he is.
DEAD PERSON: I'm not!
MORTICIAN: He isn't.
CUSTOMER: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill.
DEAD PERSON: I'm getting better!
CUSTOMER: No, you're not -- you'll be stone dead in a moment.
MORTICIAN: Oh, I can't take him like that -- it's against regulations.
DEAD PERSON: I don't want to go in the cart!
CUSTOMER: Oh, don't be such a baby.
MORTICIAN: I can't take him...
DEAD PERSON: I feel fine!
CUSTOMER: Oh, do us a favor...
MORTICIAN: I can't.
CUSTOMER: Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes? He won't be long.
MORTICIAN: Naaah, I got to go on to Robinson's -- they've lost nine today.
CUSTOMER: Well, when is your next round?
MORTICIAN: Thursday.
DEAD PERSON: I think I'll go for a walk.
CUSTOMER: You're not fooling anyone y'know. Look, isn't there something you can do?
DEAD PERSON: I feel happy... I feel happy. [whop]
CUSTOMER: Ah, thanks very much.
MORTICIAN: Not at all. See you on Thursday
Jaish Ansar Asunnah: O Allah! Grant Mujahid Abu Mesa'ab Al-Zarqawi A Speedy Recovery
In The Name Of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Praise be to Allah, it is He who made servants of His fight in His cause and defend "La Ilaha Illa Allah" (There is no god but Allah). Peace and prayer be upon the leader of Mujahideen, the one who was sent as mercy to all creatures, our prophet, Muhammad, his family and his companions.
{And slacken not in following up the enemy: If you are suffering hardships, they are suffering similar hardships: but you hope from Allah, what they have not. And Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom} 4:104
{And We shall try you until We test those among you who strive their utmost and preserve in patience; and We shall try your reported (mettle).} 47:31
Trying His servants is the practice of Allah. Even the dearest human being to Allah, our prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was subjected to all sorts of trials. He was accused of lying, he was subjected to embargo, and he was injured in battle. This is always the fate of righteous people, everywhere, all the time. So what happened to Sheikh Abu Mesa'ab is not out of the ordinary.
May Allah preserve him and keep him a thorn in the side of his enemies. His effective operations against the enemies of Allah have caused the breast of many Muslims to be content. We at Jaish Ansar Asunnah ask Allah for a speedy recovery so that our Sheikh can continue on the Jihad road and continue to inflict pain and suffering upon the cross worshippers and their collaborators.
Media Department
Jaish Ansar Asunnah
18 Rabie Al-Thani, 1426
May 26, 2005
Posted by: Fred ||
05/27/2005 14:40 ||
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#1
Fred, did you read the next story in that piece of trash?
We also would like to remind all Muslims and non-Muslims that the very nature of Jihad has not, nor will it ever be, based on one man. Jihad is well underway against the oppressors in Iraq and other areas and the loss of any individual will not stop it. The soldiers of Allah who run to the battlefield when they are outnumbered and out-equipped know full well that their success depends solely on Allah and that they will win one of two good things; either victory or paradise. It will take much more than a death of any individual to extinguish the bright light of Jihad that continues to grow larger inside the Land of the Two Rivers and all over the globe for that matter.
Sounds like they're getting the faithful ready for some bad news maybe?
Iraq's al Qaeda said on Friday its leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was in good health and was back leading operations in Iraq after being wounded, according to a statement posted on the Internet. "Our Sheikh is in good health and is running the jihad (holy war) himself and has been overseeing the details of operations up to the time this statement was prepared," a group spokesman said in a posting issued on Islamist Web sites.
"Lookidat! See? He ain't dead!"
"Looks dead to me. Where's his chest?"
Conflicting statements about the leadership of al Qaeda in Iraq had appeared on the Internet recently after the militant group announced on Tuesday that Zarqawi had been wounded. Al Qaeda said in its latest statement that there were no problems within the network, one of the leaders of an insurgency against U.S. forces and the Iraqi government. "Our Sheikh has over the past two years established a cohesive leadership and has a deputy and advisers," it said. "Al Qaeda Organization in Iraq is well and cohesive." On Thursday, an Internet statement in the name of al Qaeda Organization for Holy War in Iraq said the group had named a deputy to fill in for Zarqawi, but a later statement attributed to the group spokesman swiftly denied it. Iraq's interior minister said on Thursday he had confirmation that Zarqawi had been wounded, but the country's prime minister later said there was no firm news.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/27/2005 14:26 ||
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A young Palestinian man who allegedly planned to launch or assist a suicide bomb attack inside Israel was arrested by IDF forces in the Nablus area Friday afternoon. Hamas will retaliate for this Zionist aggression, no doubt
The Palestinian approached the Beit Iba checkpoint near Nablus carrying an explosives belt hidden in a bag under a pile of clothes. Military police forces and soldiers of the Haruv battalion manning the checkpoint called the Palestinian to halt for inspection. One of the soldiers opened the bag and saw wires protruding from underneath a pile of clothes. The soldiers isolated the area and sappers were preparing to detonate bomb. Since the beginning of May, several suspected Palestinian youngsters were arrested at checkpoints in the Nablus area carrying explosives and other types of ammunition. why is it stories like these are only found in the Israeli press? where's the MSM?
#3
PlanetDan- such stories don't fit in with the MSM narrative, kumbaya and all, they'll love us if we leave them alone, or better yet, keep paying them millions per year to live in permanent refuge camps, after all us WASPs did much worse when we settled the Wild West, so how can we judge?
Besides such things could just be a joooooish plot, Halliburton, Rove, neocons, Bushchimpler- they all want to eat my brains- gaaaaah!
Romania on Friday charged the translator for three Romanian journalists who were held in Iraq for 55 days, and an Arab businessman, of orchestrating the kidnapping. Prosecutors said the reporters' guide, Mohamad Munaf, who was seized with the journalists on March 28, and Romanian-Syrian businessman Omar Hayssam were charged with "initiating, funding and coordinating the March 28 kidnapping."
The general prosecutor's office said the kidnapping was part of an elaborate plot aimed at turning Hayssam into a hero in Romania in the hope that it would help him escape potential punishment for previous charges of organized crime and economic-financial wrongdoings. "The abduction and threats by the Iraq group were aimed at triggering a strong psychological impact on the (Romanian) population, to depict Hayssam as a liberator of the journalists," it said in a statement. "Warrant arrests for 30 days were issued," it said.
Prima TV reporter Marie Jeanne Ion, 32, cameraman Sorin Miscoci, 30, and reporter for Romania Libera daily Ovidiu Ohanesian, 37 were kidnapped along with Munaf while on a short trip to Baghdad. They were shown in tapes aired by Al Jazeera. The three returned home on Monday but Munaf remained in Iraq under U.S. custody for investigations. The U.S. embassy in Bucharest said he had information indicating "an imminent threat" to the coalition forces in Iraq.
Hayssam, who lives in Romania, had told local media immediately after the kidnapping that he received a telephone call from the insurgents asking for $4 million in exchange for their freedom. Authorities, suspecting foul play, immediately arrested Hayssam for questioning. Romanian prosecutors said nine people captured in Baghdad in April in connection with the case, supplied the information leading to the charges brought against the two Arab businessmen.
The abductors were reported to have political demands, threatening to kill the hostages unless Romania, a staunch ally of the United States, withdrew its 800 troops from Iraq, where about 150 foreigners have been seized in two years. But Romania made clear it would not pull out its troops.
Al Jazeera video identified the abductors as the previously unknown "Squadrons of Mu'adh bin Jebel," which refers to a figure from early Islamic history.
President Traian Basescu, who handled the hostage crisis, said their release "was an operation handled 100 percent by the Romanian secret services, which cooperated in an excellent way." In comments broadcast by Realitatea TV Basescu would not disclose how they were freed: "This thing will be kept on top-secret file, which can be declassified in 50 years."
#1
Heh. Hayssam, you should have realized that the Rumanian authorities still remember every trick for extortion and manufacturing of news and sentiment that the Soviets and the old Rumanian communists practiced.
Amateur ....
Posted by: too true ||
05/27/2005 14:43 Comments ||
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From Iraqthemodel's post yesterday.
...The minister of interior also gave a short briefing on the ...operations carried out by the Iraqi forces between May 22 and May 26; he said that 578* suspects were arrested in Abu Ghraib, 4 large caches of weapons found, 118 vehicles prepared for car-bomb attacks were destroyed (between April 15 and May 26*) and 6 million dollars confiscated when a terror cell was arrested in Baghdad.
#5
Habbib, quick! Check the dog pounds! Who let the dogs out! Woe upon us! No more cars, no more dogs.... donkeys they so expensive! Those apostates! Those infidels of apostate mothers! Those those those... oh! They make me so mad! Get me a Pepsi before I fall faint!
#6
Wow! What an idea for a TV show! First we had American Hot Rod, then came OverHaulin'
No we can do CarBombin'
Achmed: Hello, Fatima
Fatima: Achmed, oh I have such bad news for you
Achmed: OH my Allah, not the camel...
Fatama (quizical smile): No, not quite that bad, Achmed, but your car has been reposessed and we will have to go through so many hoops to get it back....
Cut to Bomb Shop where Ali bin Foose is showing his latest design for a custimized 8-banger 57 Chevy bombmobile to the Imam.....
Posted by: Michael ||
05/27/2005 18:40 Comments ||
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The Jordanian thug Fadhel Nazal Al-Khalayla (Zarqawi) 38 years has died.
He received treatment from Arab doctors who were not very experts and lacking intensive care equipments which he needed for his puncture in the right lung. His wounds infection gets resistance to the antibiotics. He had what is called septicemia which is according to doctors an infection of the blood resulted from infected wound. Zarqawi's systems started to fail including his kidney and liver.
He died and now in the hands of the Keepers of the Hell in its worst level.
His family in Jordan preparing and expected to do Fataha (funeral for him soon).
Jordan again put itself in the opposite front of the civilized world and with the terrorist.
The Iraqis and all other civilised people should protest strongly against any funeral events for Zarqawi in Jordan
This news verbal and is yet to be confirmed; so wait and see for now and we will get the details soon when we receive them.
C'mon! Let's have some confirmation... The Fat Lady's been gargling gin and cracking her knuckles for three days now...
#5
First Arafat gets some "blood infection", and now Zarky?
Haven't these idjits ever heard of antibiotics? Or is there some superstrain out there in the Middle East?
#11
24 hour rule. Ive read this blog in the past, and he seems to be a good guy, but im not sure what "news is verbal" means. A report on Iraqi radio, but nothing to link to? Or a rumour hes heard? Not ready to ululate yet.
#12
With the race to replace Iraqi al Qaeda leader Abu Musab Zarqawi growing close, former U.S. President Jimmy Carter has announced plans to oversee the election of the new leader. "Ah feel an obligation to ensure that the new leader of al Qaeda in Iraq is democratically elected." said Carter just before leaving for Fallujah by camel.
#14
I've seen a lot of criticism about the small round that the M-16 fires, but if this report is right (agreed on the 24-hour rule) then it seems like that small round penetrated our boy's chest cavity and bounced around for a while. While it would have been more aesthetically pleasing to read that he had been cut in half by a "Ma Deuce", this is a perfectly acceptable outcome.
Posted by: Matt ||
05/27/2005 13:10 Comments ||
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#15
It's a shame his head is still attached to his body. He doesn't deserve to go into the ground in one piece. Hope some jackals dig up his grave.
Posted by: Homer from London ||
05/27/2005 13:21 Comments ||
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#16
regarding Septicemia, I suppose it depends on what kind of blood poisening. My dad died of kidney failure which does lead to toxins in the blood and he did not seem to have much pain.
I searched a few more sites and abdominal pain is frequently found with blood poisening but not always.
#19
Death is too nice for a person of his likes. I wish for something that leaves him completely mentally and physically scarred as well as a quadruple amputee with the intellect and cognitive skills of a 1 year old. Inshallah!!!
#22
"intellect and cognitive skills of a 1 year old"
Tkat, no, thats wrong. Should that fate come to pass, you want his mind working properly (or as well as it usually does anyway) so that he can appreciate and savor his condition.
Insurgents in Iraq attached explosives to a dog and tried to blow up a military convoy near the northern oil centre of Kirkuk. The canine bomb went off but the only casualty was the unfortunate animal, said police. The militants wrapped an explosive belt around the dog and detonated it as the convoy passed through Dakuk, 25 miles south of Kirkuk, said the town's police chief, Col Mohammed Barzaji.
"The dog was torn apart by the explosion which caused neither injury among the soldiers nor any damage." Col Barzaji said the bomb had been detonated outside a Shia mosque. "Eight suspects have been detained." Are they implying Shiias were responsible?
This was not the first time that animals have been used in insurgent attacks. In 2003, donkey carts were used to conceal makeshift multiple rocket launchers in a flurry of attacks in Baghdad. Animal carcasses and human corpses have been used to conceal explosives.
#1
Blowing themselves up is a good thing. In fact I strongly encourage it (although I really wish they would do so in a empty field somewhere so they would not hurt innocent bystanders), but this is disgusting, even for a muslim.
Posted by: Michael ||
05/27/2005 10:27 Comments ||
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#2
I await with breathless anticipation a condemnation of this heartless exploitation of a helpless mutt from the PETA spokesperson...
#7
#5: I'd not go nearly that far. Kurds are Muslims. Afghans -- including the non-Taliban Afghans -- are Muslims. There are lots of people throughout the Middle East and North Africa who're both Muslim and trying to drag their countries out of the stagnation that's been the result of the fatal combination of National Socialism and Olde Tyme Religion that's made them into cultural and social backwaters. Many of them are even Arabs.
Islam as a religion has its faults, and they are many and must be worked out. But our problem is Islamism as an ideology: wahhabism pureed with qutbism and its Deobandi analogues in South Asia.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/27/2005 11:26 Comments ||
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#14
What Fred said. We should never forget two important news items:
1) 95% of the world's Muslims are decent people who are just trying to make a life.
2) 95% of the world's suicide bombers right now are Islamists.
There's the distinction. Yes, some Muslims are fanatical fascists. Fred's notation of 'national socialim' is quite apt for all the reasons we've talked about here before. These Islamofascists are the danger to us, and they've been infecting some, but only some, of their religious brethen these past few decades.
I work with several Muslims and know several others rather well in my profession. They're as decent a people as you'd ever want to meet. I'd stand up for them any day.
It's the Islamists we have to whack hard, not the Muslims. I hope we never forget that.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/27/2005 13:38 Comments ||
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#15
Steve,
I agree with everything you said, except that it is we who have to whack the Islamists hard. I would suggest it is our Muslim friends who bear the primary responsibility for that. And the Iraqi armed forces seem to be starting. When the whole story of this conflict is told I hope we will learn how our domestic Muslim firends will have done their own part as well.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
05/27/2005 13:51 Comments ||
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#16
Add my voice to that, Mrs. D. and like Steve, I too know some decent and good Muslims.
#17
Well, I started going to an Iraqi barber in about March 2003. I admit to some initial apprehension about his possession of sharp implements near my neck, but he turned out to be a good guy.
Posted by: Matt ||
05/27/2005 14:02 Comments ||
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#18
Matt - was that barber the same one as Al-Suini Tahd? Don't be too complacent.
#19
Muslims bear much of the responsibility for the "root causes" such as they are, as well. Allan is a backwards-flowing river of blood if you take the Koran at its' word.
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/27/2005 14:37 Comments ||
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#20
the koran must be taken at its literal word. Traditions of interpretation have no authority as such. Sole Scriptura!!!!!!
Posted by: Martin al-Luther ||
05/27/2005 14:50 Comments ||
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#21
These "animals" are using one of mankind's most loyal, loving, and courageous friends to do their dirty work.
They are less than dogs.
The dogs I have had in my life make these "things" lower than what my dogs left on the lawn.
For 50 thousand years dogs have been our species' most true and loyal friends. To treat them this way, to lower them in this manner, is to profane their own religion.
We are a dogs' religion. They adore us as masters. They deserve a helluva' lot better than what they get.
#22
I agree with you #21. I'm not a PETA member, but I am totally repulsed by the terrorists' abuse of a dog for precisely the reasons you cite. Dogs love us, they love to please us in any way. They are the Norman Rockwell symbols of civilized society. This dog likely willingly tried to please these scumbags for a few scraps of bread. I'm sorry but there's something very very sick about a society that abuses dogs. And even the best of Muslim societies are not very kind to dogs. I recall reading a few months ago that security work dogs that were given to the Iraqi police were systematically starved, some died.
#3
Abu Maysara al-Iraqi: Head of the information department of al-Qaida in the Land of Two Rivers (also known as al-Qaida in Iraq). A former military officer in Saddam Hussein's regime.
Abu al-Dardaa al-Iraqi: Top military commander (in Baghdad and surrounding area) of al-Qaida in Iraq. Former military officer in Hussein's regime.
Hmm, it was my understanding that the Sunni / Baathist part of the insurgency liked to keep its distance from al-Zarqawi's bunch of fanatics. That distance was strictly cosmetic, of course. It just gave the Baathist's some 'plausible deniability' when Z's boys were indulging themselves in their counter-productive car-bombing campaign.
Posted by: Pat Phillips ||
05/27/2005 10:40 Comments ||
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#4
al-Qaida in the Land of Two Rivers (also known as al-Qaida in Iraq)
I think I brought this up here once before: would that translate fully into Arabic as al qaida al jazeera?
#5
Kill each one as soon as he takes charge. Occasionally mention that anonymous informants close to the center helped nail this one or that, and thank them. Keep the organization in an uproar, and too busy internally to be effective (except as a laughingstock).
A suicide bomber set off explosives Friday in the midst of Shiite Muslims reciting the Quran, killing at least 20 and wounding dozens gathered for a religious festival at a shrine near the capital. The motive was not immediately clear, but there are frequent sectarian attacks in this Islamic country by extremist elements of the Sunni and minority Shiite sects. An AP photographer at the scene counted at least 20 bodies, many in pieces. An intelligence official said at least 20 people were killed and 150 were wounded. The bomb ripped through hundreds of worshippers as they were reciting from the Muslim holy book beneath tents at the Bari Imam shrine outside Islamabad.
"It was like hell," said Syed Muktar Hussain Shah, 40, who had been waiting for a prominent Shiite leader, Hamid Moasvi, to address the gathering when the bomb went off. "I fell down ... when I woke up I saw dead bodies around me."
"None of the bodies was intact," said Dr. Wahid Abbas, who helped treat the wounded. "Some had legs blown off, some had their hands blown off." He and other witnesses said police collected the head of a suspected suicide bomber. Authorities did not immediately confirm that information. The Shiite leader, Moasvi, was not hurt, witnesses said. Mukhtar Kazmi, who was running a free clinic at the shrine, said it had treated about 200 people.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/27/2005 07:41 ||
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#1
And they are all in a tizzy over a false allegation of flushing the Quran. I would think this is worse. Oh no that's right, these are insurgents. Insurgents are allowed to kill thier own and desicrate anything they want. Thank you MSM for helping me to keep that straight.
#6
yeah.. Shi'ites sitting ducks for mass murder in Iraq and now Pakistan...so cruel, same as their "model" Muhammad. Who the Koran commands them to emulate
there are different interpretations of the Koran, of what muhammed did, and how to emulate him. Im not a muslim, and i presume youre not, so its a bit silly of either of us to claim our interpretation is the "right" one.
We can only look at what muslims actually do. These Shiites were murdered. By Wahabis. As elsewhere muslims are murdered by Wahabis.
Wahabism is a sect of war and death. I wont besmirch their victims by grouping them together, anymore than I would, say, group the English Protestant martyrs of the 1550s with the Inquisitors who burnt them alive, despite that they read the same holy books.
#11
there are different interpretations of the Koran, of what muhammed did, and how to emulate him. Im not a muslim, and i presume youre not, so its a bit silly of either of us to claim our interpretation is the "right" one.
All Muslims must emulate the life of Muhammad, who is called the perfect model for all mankind. Muslims can be fanatical fundamentalists or peaceful depending on what they concieve Muhammad's life was. I say the "nice" Muslims are in denial and in ignorance of the Muhammad's evil, blood drenched life. They emulate a white washed version of Muhammad's life.
#12
I don't know enough about Mohammed's life to comment specifically, but, based on what I've learned here at RBU, Sea Cruise is right. So maybe all we can hope is that we whitewash old Muhammed's image so that he comes out looking like Michael Jackson.
#13
I say the "nice" Muslims are in denial and in ignorance of the Muhammad's evil, blood drenched life.
I presume the "nice" muslims are more familiar with the actual arabic text of the koran and hadiths, and the interpretations of them, and the principles of interpretation than you or I are. IIUC Queen Victoria once expressed revulsion at the character of Abraham the prophet. She of course was not familiar with Midrash, Rashi, and other classic jewish interpretations. Its NOT up to non-members of a religion to tell members of a religion which interpretation is "correct" A holy text is just that, a holy text, not a work of history or science. There IS NO correct interpretation apart from the religious assumptions (for example in traditional Judaism its held that because the bible is the word of G-d, theres nothing superflous in it - therefore anything that LOOKS superflous, a repetition, an odd Hebrew grammatical particle, etc MUST have meaning. This leads to some "odd" interpretations that Christians dont see, and that secular critics certainly dont see)
I dont go around telling Christians whether the interpretation of the NT by 15th century Catholic inquisitors, or modern Catholics like the late Pope, or by 17thc century Calvinists, or by Quakers, or by Pat Robertson, or by John Spong is the right one. It wouldnt make sense, since thats NOT my holy book. Instead I look around, and see most Christians are OK people, a few are really wonderful, idealistic people, and a very few are terrible people, and I leave it at that. I do the same for muslims, though I recognize the proportions are worse, for a whole variety of reasons.
#15
Historically speaking, Liberalhawk is on the money. Wahabist/Salafist teachings are what, like 100+ years old? The comparatively pacifistic Sufi tradition is 1000 years old. The Wahabist disease that has infected Sunni Islam is, like the Quom school of Shia, a very recent phenomenon.
Of course the best time to cure a disease is in its early stages, before it spreads throughout the body. Which means we are probably too late....
#16
And right after there was a fatwa issued against suicide bombing (except in Kashmir and Palestine, where such bombings are permissible)..
Maybe there was an American soldier present.
That must be it..a Yankee Trooper was there..
âAny where, if there is one American soldier present, suicide bombing is permissible under Islam,â Dr. Aamir was quoted by these sources as having said on record. "There are times when the truth must be told," he added in one remark.
- Minister for Religious Affairs of the Pakistan Government, âDrâ Aamir Liaquat Hussain
on Pakistan TV (one week ago)
Posted by: john ||
05/27/2005 14:57 Comments ||
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#17
actually i think wahabism is more than 200 years old, and there were related fundamentalist outbreaks centuries before that. At the same time that we make clear that the problem is not all of Islam, its important not to minimalize it. Wahabism even if its historically been a small minority of Islam, prior to the burst of Saudi funding and proselytizing from the 1970's onward, DOES have deep roots in certain branches of Sunni Islam.
#18
Waahabism has enjoyed a big shot in the arm of late because the Clown Princes of Saudi Arabia are descendants of Waahab and they used all that oil money to fund the madrassas, the mosques, and the murder.
Someday soon, we're going to have to deal with them, too.
I have no idea why anyone would be so Kumbaya-ish that they'd carry water for (radical) Muslims, particularly when that Chamberlain-like person is Jewish and when one considers the mountains of Jewish corpses created by radicalized Muslims.
Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindi, etc. have learned enough about each other's religions to know that they preach peace and love almost universally and can be practiced together in a community.
Islam--from the Koran on forwards--teaches War and conversion or conquest by the sword, with very little language about love of one's fellow man or world peace, unless it's a world that's been submitted to the Islamic peace of dhimmitude.
Respect isn't a 1-way street.
When they stop killing us because we're not of their faith, then we can get somewhere.
When more "moderate" Muslims step up and declare that they against murder in the name of Allah, then and only then will I begin to believe that their religion isn't a death cult against "infidels" and treat it with a little respect.
When your religion has waged war and brought nothing but slaughter for 1300 years, it's no wonder it's considered a primitive, barbaric cult of death and not an enduring expression of spiritual faith.
#19
Certainly, LH, but I think you get my point. What we are seeing right now is a religious reaction to the growing power of Western Culture in the Islamic world. Not merely military power but the increasing appeal of "Westernism" itself. Wahabism is a response to a cultural threat, or at least its modern incarnation is. Ditto for the Quom School. I don't think that, say, the Portuguese expansion of the 1400's provoked quite the same result.
#20
Almost forgot...when they aren't killing Christians and Jews, the Waahab Sunnis will kill Shi'ites for the "sin" of being "polytheists."
As the Shiites rever Imam Ali (Mohammed's grandson or nephew,I forget which), the Waahabs declare this to be worship of more than one God.
Of course, Christians are guilty of this with our Holy Trinity, in Waahab eyes.
How they get "polytheism" from Judaism is beyond me--too much respect for Moses, Abraham and Isaac instead of Abraham and Ishamel and none for Mohammed or something...
Face it, they just wanna kill and any excuse will do!
#21
I have no idea why anyone would be so Kumbaya-ish that they'd carry water for (radical) Muslims, particularly when that Chamberlain-like person is Jewish and when one considers the mountains of Jewish corpses created by radicalized Muslims.
are you talking about me? I do not "carry water for radical muslims" This discussion started when I pointed out that this article is an instance of Shiites being murdered by Wahabis. Did you read that?
#22
The Deobandi sect (Taliban are Deobandis) has its origins in the defeat of the Mughal empire at the hands of the British.
Likewise the rise of the muslim brotherhood in Egypt was a reaction to the fall of the Caliphate and the Ottoman empire.
The Pakistan project (the world's first Islamic state) was a reaction to the perceived decline of muslim power at the end of the Raj (when calls for a separate muslim electorate to neutralize the numerically superior hindus were rebuffed).
Posted by: john ||
05/27/2005 15:44 Comments ||
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#23
SM, you are largely correct. Perhaps I was being needlessly precise. Since I have been accused of minimizing the extent of radical Islam, I wanted to make it clear that I realized Wahabism DOES have deep roots within Islam, and is not JUST a reaction to modern conditions.
You are correct though that it has grew in the 20th century as a response to the cultural threat from the West, and from Westernizing Muslims - this is clear in the history of the Muslim Brotherhood, and of the Deobandis. And, in a yet more radical form, in the approach of Sayed Qutb. OTOH there was also an expansion that was spefically triggered by the Saudis, who started attempting to spread Wahabism more aggessively after 1979 as an alternative to Qom Shiite revolutionism. There is a tendency to forget that the Iranian revolutionaries at the outset hoped to appeal to Sunnis as well as Shiites (only one of the ways in which they departed from earlier Shiite tradition)
#24
When more "moderate" Muslims step up and declare that they against murder in the name of Allah, then and only then will I begin to believe that their religion isn't a death cult against "infidels" and treat it with a little respect.
#26
I think you misunderstand us, Jennie. LH and I are trying to be dispassionate about Islamic history regardless of our feelings about the present. I am arguing that modern Islamic fundamentalism is a radical response to a particular modern stimulus. I'm not condoning or excusing it, just examining it. LH disagrees. I believe that he is saying that these sorts of fundamentalist movements are a reoccurring pattern in Islam. I see that you agree.
Neither of us is carrying water for radical Islam. I would politely argue that the religionâs 1300 year history is not entirely blood soaked, but thatâs as far as it goes. Have you ever seen the Whirling Dervishes of Turkey perform? Pretty hard to picture those guys piling up âmountains of Jewish corpsesâ anytime soon. Not all Islamic traditions are violent or inordinately violent, by which I mean outside of what an American would consider the norm. We should promote the later and discourage the former (or, hell, kill the former) to the best of our admittedly limited abilities.
#27
Good points, SM and you're right.
Where I was trying to answer both you and LH was to point out that "pure" Islam, as written in the Koran, contains exhortations to war, the violent conquest of the world for Islam and making infidels into converts, dhimmi or corpses by the sword.
As you both point out, these passages are ignored or acted upon as times, circumstances and fortunes wax and wan in the dar al-Islam and the dar al-Harb.
We are currently living in one of the eras of radicalized Islam--duh!--but this current violent cycle may be their last.
If the world is truly to live in peace, Islam may have to be banned worldwide someday as a practicable religion--it just contains too much that engenders the death cult mentality.
#28
LH disagrees. I believe that he is saying that these sorts of fundamentalist movements are a reoccurring pattern in Islam. I see that you agree.
I only partly disagree. I certainly can see that the modern Ikwani ideology, is, well, modern, and a reaction to modern conditions. But im thinking of various fundamentalist outbursts through muslim history, forex the almohads(?) and others. While I dont see them as the dominant force in muslim history, I do think that they laid a premodern ideological and theological base which 20thc ideologues could transform into a modern fundamentalist ideology.
And i very much doubt the Ms Tallieferro agrees with me on anything.
and what I dont see is how you get "pure" islam. Why is one islam pure and the other impure. I can only assume that you mean Islam as it would be IF it were based on a literal reading of the Koran (assuming youve read the entire Koran, which I doubt) And what ive been trying to tell you and others here, over and over, is that the view that a literal reading of a holy text is the "pure" or "right" one is precisely what is at issue, and what most muslims over the centuries have NOT held. Just as most Jews have not held it wrt to the Hebrew scriptures, not have Catholics held it wrt to the Christian Bible. It is a particularly PROTESTANT viewpoint, reflecting Martin Luthers and others insistence on the bible ALONE as a source of authority. Now Protestants are some damned fine people, and theyve made some perfectly wonderful contributions to civilizations, from Bachs cantatas to the Mayflower Compact. But applying their particular perspective to non-Christian civilizations is profoundly misleading.
#30
SM, yes, some muslims are peaceful. The problem isIslam.
We would have no choice but to erase it completely at some point, else the viral locus that is an integral part of its ideology would bring recurrent infection, again and again.
I think we Americans can help direct Muslims down a better road by punishing those whose values we disapprove of and rewarding those whose values we agree with. Punishing sometimes means killing, yes, but it can mean other things as well. I understand that in some areas "better" could be viewed subjectively, but in the long run our cultures can no longer avoid one another as they have in the past. We must reach an understanding and, since I believe our culture to be superior, I want those terms to be on terms favorable to us. As long as we Americans stay the course we will be the winning horse. Should we fail to do so we shall fall as a civilization, bringing the rest of the already faltering west down with us. The stakes are high.
That said, although I take the Islamic threat very, very seriously I have absolutely no interest in âbanningâ Islam or any other religion. Religious discrimination is NOT an American value under any circumstance, even for those with whom I violently disagree. Should we do such a thing we would no longer be Americans but something else.... and I have no interest in that something else. Wahabism (re: Fundamentalist Islam) cannot be viewed as the âessentialâ focus of a religion that has exhibited such a wide variety of behaviors over the last millennium.
Not to pick on a group I generally respect, but allow me to illustrate my point. Nobody believes that murdering wagon trains full of settlers is an essential, inexorable part of Mormonism, but a century ago they definitely did it. The Mormon doctrine at issue here is called "blood atonement," and it dictates that there are certain sins that include, but hardly limited to, murder that place an offender beyond the redemptive capacity of Christ's atonement. "If these offenses are committed," wrote Joseph Fielding Smith, the tenth Mormon Church president, "the blood of Christ will not cleanse [the offenders] from their sins even though they repent. Therefore their only hope is to have their own blood shed to atone, as far as possible, in their behalf."
It was this kind of thinking that lead to a slaughter at Mountain Meadows, a southern Utah oasis, where Mormon militiamen killed an entire wagon train of settlers save for 17 small children younger than eight, who were regarded as "innocent blood" under Mormon doctrine. The wagon train's considerable wealth in livestock, assets, and gold was plundered, much of it being taken by Mormon leaders as "tithes." Among the atrocity's victims were several Mormon "back-outs," or apostates, who were "blood atoned" for the supposed sin of trying to flee to California. There was also a guard who claimed to have helped lynch church founder Joseph Smith.
I think you see my point: the Mormon religion promoted institutionalize, sanctioned violence that could be condoned with scripture. Yet today I wouldnât think twice about living next to a Mormon family today; hell, they would probably be the best damn neighbors in the whole âhood. But if they bought the farm next to me in 1860 I would probably spend a good deal of time cleaning my Colt-Walker revolver and making sure that my wife and kids were up on the marksmanship (note to all: they are). Time and effort can change things. We changed the Mormons using consistent, if often painful and occasionally unfair, pressure upon their society.
To quote a classic bit of American WWII propaganda: We did it before, we can do it again.
#32
SM and LH - how does all that you propose play in a culture/society that continually shows a disconnect from the principles of cause=>effect, and that actions have consequences? It appears to me that unless Islamists, Arabs, Muslims, et al take personal responsibility, all is for naught but the residual radiation leftover. They show no ability to move past the "victim" status, and frankly, I believe most here in RB, and in America are tired of that f*&king act.
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/27/2005 17:41 Comments ||
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#33
Carrot and stick for the next twenty years or so until their children become Western through the cultural osmosis of our television, movies, music, and the internet. Sometimes we bomb the hell out of them, sometimes we build water purification plants for them, we always frame the debate so it is about them not us: their bad behavior not ours, their cultural shortcomings not ours, their dysfunctional politics not ours. We do not allow them to have fun with our internal politics like they did last year, either, by ignoring that sort of crap. We stay strong and patient, like parents with a particularly delinquent child. We flog and reward depending on their behavior and we always, always watch them until they grow up.
Donât get frustrated Frank because itâs going to be a long haul no matter what we do or donât do. Glassing Mecca is not an option. We are not the villains of this particular historical story, they are, but the only way to not be a villain is to not act like one.
#34
noted - there may come a time when it will be better to ba an alive "villain" than a dead dhimmi.
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/27/2005 18:16 Comments ||
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#35
Agreed, but it can't be said that we haven't been warned about the weeds in the garden. A little judicious plucking throughout the season should prevent us from having to break out the weed whacker.
#36
SM, That is all nice. But look at Europe. The islamism is on the rise amongst EU muslims, western civ. influences or not.
We can pussyfoot around for 20-50 years. But at some point in time, we would have no choice. I believe it would be sooner.
Since you are using analogies... what you are trying to do is rehabilitate serial killers or sexual preditors. You can't, You may pour as much good will on them as you please, but once you release them, they would kill/bugger again.
I recommend that you do read http://www.prophetofdoom.net/ltr.html and all the chapters, it would provide you with some reference explaining why I don't think your carrot and stick strategy won't work. After you're done, come back and let's hear what you have to say.
#39
This entry at my website talks about an article, "The Key to Jihadist Ideology and Strategy", by Lawrence Auster. It is EXTREMEMLY enlightening when trying to untangle the Chameleon of Islam.
To summarize: The Entire life of mohammed (PTUI) is seen, not as a single template for behavior, but a set of templates, where any specific template is chosen based on the circumstances. Where Islam is weak, the early part of Mohammed's (PTUI) life is used. Where Islam is stronger, but still fighting the Infidel, the middle part of his life is followed. Where Islam has conquered, then the latter part of his life is emulated.
It's a big con game: they can point to one PART of Mohammed's life and protest that THAT is Islam, while hoping you don't notice that they are following a DIFFERENT part of Mohammed's life as they speak.
The Con works because Judaism and Christianity usually have only ONE template to apply (The Torah for the former, and Christ's life for the latter). The Torah is a fixed and finite document, and the record of Jesus' life, despite being written from different views and thus differing from each other in details, is so consistently peaceful and non-violent in itself that in "Carnage and Culture", Hanson himself blames Christianity, not for creating a huge invincible war machine, but the prime source for DISMANTLING it, and the prime advocate for not creating one.
It is a mistake to think that Islam takes the Koran as the sole source of teaching and authority: it is the SUPREME source, but there are a number of secondary historical works containing commentary that is followed as faithfully and passionately as the Koran. In this sense, it is like the PreReformation catholic church, which pushed "the writings of the fathers," and Tradition as authoritative sources for interpreting the Bible.
Don't be fooled by the "peaceful" Muslim: He'll not only switch templates on you the moment the situation changes, but will justify the switch as being fully Islamic.
And he'd be right, because MOHAMMED (PTUI), did EXACTLY what he had just done.
I'm not so scholarly but some Westerners know more about Islam than 95% of Muhammadans do. One of these would be Robert Spencer of JihadWatch.com. He can debate a Muslim verse for verse from the Koran and Hadith. Actually many Muslims are illiterate and don't know Islam very well since they depend on a Mullah's preachings.
#42
Ptah, the templates of strategy --very good point indeed.
Does anyone think that if AQ got a hold of nukes that they would hesitate to use them? Not for a second.
So what about Paiwakiland? They are muslim country and got nukes. It hinges on Mushy. He is a very intelligent man, and knows that Islam is on notice. So far, he was able to rule with a firm hand. However, I am not sure how he would feel if he would perceive an advantage, I wouldn't exclude a switch to jihad modus operandi. Luckily, a parasitic system that Islam is can't overcome its patterns, they can mimic the tech of their adversary to a degree, but do not have the potential to catch up or develop something new--you need science for that, unimpended by religious constraints.
Well, a brief scan of the website is interesting. He has made an exhaustive database of more or less offensive quotations from the Koran, the Sira, the Taârikh, and several Hadiths (most of the really wacky ones seem to be from them). Unfortunately, right of the bat in his âFrom The Authorâ introduction he says some things that are factually untrue:
Islam rises and falls on Muhammad. He is the religion's sole prophet, Islamâs solitary example, Allahâs lone conduit.
Well, a 1300 year old religion is always about more than one person. You could take the Sunni/Shia split as the most obvious example but there are many others. Islam has its saints, holy men, and villains like any other faith. It has produced numerous splinter religions like the Druze, Bahia, and Sufi. Its got roughly 2 billion adherents â itâs BIG. Likewise, Muhammad has never been Islamâs âsoleâ prophet or âsolitary example.â Abraham is big in Islam, as are a variety of other Old Testament prophets. The Koran specifically refers to Jesus is a prophet. So thatâs not an accurate statement by any means,
Was Moe a âthief, rapist, and terrorist?â Maybe, but under the same criteria so was King David if I am not mistaken. Moses did some pretty questionable things with divine assistance as well.... like killing the first born male child of every family in an entire race. Does that make the Jewish faith irremovably evil? Of course not, but we canât judge Islam by one criteria and the other two major Abrahamic religions (there are some minor ones) by another. Having read the Koran (in translation) I can honestly tell you that a great deal of it seems to be poetry about Godâs love for man, manâs duties to God, and how to live a good life free from sin (or wickedness if you like). Not my bag, but itâs not all about killing the infidel you know.
Now, should we be ready to rub Islamâs face in its shortcomings where appropriate? By all means â they need it more than anybody. But are they irredeemably evil because of their founderâs supposed shortcomings? Nope.
2x4, there is no delicate way to phrase this, but are you actually buying the Mad Mullahâs hype that the Koran is directly from Moeâs mouth to paper? A lot of evidence suggests that the Koran, much like the Catholic Bible, was basically assembled out of available material at a certain point in history for political reasons. The website points out that little of our knowledge of the founder of Islam comes from reliable archeological sources. For all we know Muhammad has a lot more in common with King Author than Moses.
In closing, I'm certainly not an apologist for Islam. I'm against further immigration from the Middle East to the United States except in the case of Christian arabs, Kurds, and minority Muslim groups like the Druze. Shock and Awe is good medicine for the Sunni, to be applied liberally when and wherever necessary. But we need both stick AND carrot to win the vital war of ideas that we are currently involved in. Deluding ourselves with fantasies about the âbasic evilâ of such a large and diverse group of people isnât going to help no matter how badly we want all of them to have some sort of explainable (therefor easily correctable) mass psychosis. There is no neat and tidy end to this, only a very patient, hard, and long-term winding down through superior resolve and culture.
#44
SM, I asked you to read it all. You've skimmed it.
The point is not whether Mo was baddie. What matters is that what moral precepts the Koran is built on.
You are incorrect that Islam is an Abrahamic religion. Yes, it refers to Abraham and Jesus. But you need to go beyond that fact and discern HOW.
Something from news:
Tehran, 27 May (AKI) - Hojatolislam Gholam Reza Hasani, a representative of Iranâs supreme spiritual leader, Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei, in Iranian Azerbaijan, has no doubts as to who to vote for in the next presidential elections on 17 June. âYou need to vote for Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani,â said Hasani. âThis way we will finally be able to have for ourselves the atomic bomb to fairly stand up to Israeli weapons,â said Hasani.
âFreedom, democracy and stupidities of this type cannot be carried over to any part, and these concepts are out of sync with the principles of Islam,â said Hasani, the imam who led Friday prayers in the main city of western Iranian Azerbaijian.
âIslam always spoke with the sword in the hand and I donât see why now we have changed attitudes and talk with the other civilisations.â
That is the truth: Islam always spoke with the sword in the hand.
Anything else is a whitewash and not acknowledging that would cost us dearly.
#45
An interesting thread. Many arguments, many deep and obviously heartfelt, perhaps even scholarly, certainly readable and thought provoking.
If my comments are thought unkind or disrespectful, I want to make it clear that is not my intent. I respect logic and facts. I appreciate perspective.
Much of this thread is irrelevant. In toto, it's the mental calculations and machinations of Western examination - a process worthy of emulation - but it won't be, outside the West. It presumes much that is simply untrue. It presumes that the processes on display describe the situation in Islam, the play of forces between groups and schools of thought. Some described in benign terms and some in malignant terms. Clear suggestions that those described in benign terms are benign and those described in malignant terms are malignant --- to the Western POV from which the suggestion come. This implies the so-described benign forces are, or can be, allies to the West in controlling or moderating or "defeating" the so-described malignant forces. If this supposition is not true, the entire "moderate Muslim" presumption collapses.
There is a missing ingredient in these discussions. We sit here in the West, most of us informed by only what we read and understand, yet either innocently or smugly certain that reality only contains that which we can reach by reason, induction, and / or deduction. Yet examples abound that this Western myopia is deeply and dangerously flawed. The Muzzy demonstrations which have re-ignited since the Pentagon's investigation results revealed that the Qu'uran-flushing claim is false, that the detainee himself, the one who made the claim, has now retracted to the point of saying that it was only something he'd heard - now completely disavowing his previous claim that he witnessed it. That there are admissions from some detainees that they themselves had torn pages from the Qu'uran and flushed them in protests. And the response? More demonstrations against the imagined desecration of the Qu'uran by US personnel. We even have the strongman leader of an Islamic state demanding some sort of retribution for the imaginary desecrations. Politics? Playing to the masses? Lol! It is particularly interesting to me that, at the same time, this Islamic leader is expecting the US to arm him to the teeth with some very lethal goodies. How will they be used? To "fight the terrorists" or someone else? Lol! Only in Muzzy-think lies the answer - and something tells me we wouldn't like what we'd find were we able to follow the Muzzy Mind through its decidedly different machinations, lol! Is it "logical"? Would it fit into these neat and tidy discussions?
No.
There are hundreds of other clues to the folly of these learned exercises, a prime example being the bombings in Islamic countries which kill Muzzies, not infidels, by Muzzies. When these events, seemingly contradictory by Western logic, occur what happens? MORE Western POV logic is applied to attempt to explain them. There is now quite a large body of such Western logic, explaining that which is, otherwise, inexplicable by Western thinking. I believe it is fairly well described by this post from JihadWatch (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006276.php), which ran on RB a few days ago. It focuses on the careerism at the 3-letter agencies and the use of this body of fluff. Why, it's the elixir of legend, to them. That it's idiocy is exposed fairly well.
I heard a challenge regards having read the Qu'uran - and the clear implication that the challenger had read it and that there were different factions which focused on different aspects. Then, to my surprise, there was a moment and statement of true clarity, "We can only look at what Muslims actually do." So true. Who, among the Muzzies, is doing the doing, I ask? Why it's the "extremist" or "malignant" Muzzies. Well. Whaddyaknow. Who is doing nothing? the "moderate" or "benign" Muzzies. On their hands they sit, yessss. Waiting to be tapped for duty or killed.
But what about the Muzzies who are fighting back? The Afghan Army and the Iraqi Security Forces? Yeah, what about them... Is it "Moderate Mizzies" fighting "Extremist Muzzies"? Or is it actually religion-neutral, i.e. people defending themselves and their neighbors from killers? If you were to stop being Western for a moment, prone to analysis and thus seeing labels attached (convenient for pigeon-holing, a Western affectation) where they, themselves, do not - would the analysis hold? No. The fact is that the "bad" guys are, indeed, drawn to the factions which are actively being "bad". That you have applied the "extremist" label makes no difference and is a canard leading to invalid presumptions, such as the "good" guys are our friends simply because we are opposing the "bad" guys and they are their victims. The enemy of my enemy is my friend is merely a momentary convenience, a fleeting convergence of interests which, if not belabored, is momentarily true. The instant you attempt to be public about the "moderate" Muzzies being in alliance with the West in opposition to the "extremist" Muzzies - you've just stomped on your own foot. Muzzies will never stand with infidels against Muzzies - if that is the public declaration. If you keep your mouth shut, the moment lasts longer. The true Rule One of Islam is Muzzy First. It is the hook upon which Islam hangs. A Muzzy Nation, regardless of the political lines which we Westerners use to define nations. Evidence abounds to support this observation.
I am insufficiently tutored in Islam-think to go much further in pointing out the flaws, and the dangers, of assuming the Western POV can logically dissect the Muzzy POV, see how it works, and reassemble. A total of 5 years in the belly only took me so far in realizing and identifying that much of what we perceive is perceived totally differently in the Muzzy mind. Sorry. Be pissed and slam me. Be indignant and make demands of proof. Be thoughtful, yet disagree. Be confused and seek further sources which echo my line of thought. Be happy and fry 'em up. Whatever response floats your boat is okay by me... Except one: do not think you know the Muzzies unless you actually know the Muzzies. Upon that hook lies our future.
Lol - now I see a day in the future. An historian is looking back upon this time and marveling at these sincere and heartfelt discussions. I'd say the empirical odds of the historian's gender being a male are 75%, female 25%. If the historian enjoys Freedom, then the odds are 50% male and 50% female. If the historian is a Muzzy "scholar", then 100% male. Thus the predictive odds of 75-25. Will it be one who enjoys Freedom or will it be one who lives under the theocratic totalitarian boot? I dunno. The question is still open in the present.
While I was whanging away on this, letting it simmer, coming back and whanging some more, etc, there have been many additional posts. I'm impressed with the lot, lol! Many folks are wondering about the presumptions which pose dangers to us, if we fail to do due diligence. Good on ya! Some get serious about the Qu'uran - which I've read and which can be used to justify absolutely anything, from subversion to genocide. Excellent. If forewarned we should be adequately armed. We shall see. That some historian will look back and regard this moment, deeply and at leisure, I have no doubt.
#46
Twobyfour:
Man, cut me some slack: that's a lot to read while I'm still at work dispatching 20 messengers. It's a miracle that I post at all! I promise that I will peruse it more thoroughly when I have time. Listen, though, Iâm not white washing anything. I am telling you that to a large extent people are people, carrot and stick is the only option, and labeling a religion the size of Islam irredeemably evil isnât going to get us anywhere. This war, like every other, has multiple fronts. One of them concerns winning hearts and minds that, because people are people, can be won.... and we will win them if we political types show resolve, Hollywood makes rocking movies, and the Internet remains unregulated by the United Nations.
Quoting Hasani cuts no water with me because I agree with you about Iran. The Black Turbans are all a bunch of would-be world conquering, murdering fascists who have to be stopped at all costs. Do they speak for all, or even most, Muslims? Nope, as far as I can tell they donât even speak for most Iranians. More importantly, I donât think that he speaks for âIslamâ any more than Tom Delay speaks for Christianity... actually, a lot less because nobody elected him and Delay has never claimed to speak for his religion.
#47
pd: It's just too frightening for most of them. They can't _see_ the aftermath of the Battle of the Ditch in their minds. They can't put themselves in the place of Qutb, lusting for what he can never have, turning that lust into hate, and then using that hate to give him the power to create the ideological foundation of Islamism. The can't even for a second imagine beating the crap out of their sister for flirting with a man, let alone killing her for dishonoring the family. Hawala, kitman, wasta, tribalism, feudalism, honor, shame are just words.
#48
SM, sorry, based on your verbosity, I would not presume that you are at work... multitasker, eh? ;-)
I also agree that there are multiple front and believe that at the present time, the fact that Bush's administration refuses to name Islam as the enemy at this point in the game, has some merit. If we can make some good muslims bad muslims (according to Koran, not according to our moral values) and further, if we can free them from the strangehold of islam by informing them, by providing a food for thought, then we would be in better position and may actually prevent a large scale conflict.
That does not mean that we can avoid it. We need to be fully aware what we are against and the moment that we are certain that the current strategy does not work, we have to deploy a more confronatiponal approach without hesitation.
Sure, there are other streams, like Ahmadiyya, Baha'i and to a degree Sufi and other less prominent sects, but I am not worried about those as they reformed the core of the religion to reflect the golden rule of human interaction. If there was a way to make most muzzies convert to Ahmadiyyanism (Lahore branch), I would go for that, despite some inherent misogyny and other issues, that could be, nevertheless, worked out in time.
I quoted Hasani because he is shi'a. Compare it to wahhabi/salafi screeds and you'd see no difference. There is a reason for that, and that reason is Islam--it's core teachings that are the same for both sects.
"It's just too frightening for most of them. They can't _see_ the aftermath of the Battle of the Ditch in their minds. They can't put themselves in the place of Qutb, lusting for what he can never have, turning that lust into hate, and then using that hate to give him the power to create the ideological foundation of Islamism. The can't even for a second imagine beating the crap out of their sister for flirting with a man, let alone killing her for dishonoring the family. Hawala, kitman, wasta, tribalism, feudalism, honor, shame are just words."
In less than 100 words, 96 to be exact, you eloquently summarized the whole thing. Compared to you, I am a hopeless pedant, lol! I did manage not to be angry or nasty, heh - that's progress of a sort, I guess. I should be rear guard - and you should take point, bro. There's never been more at stake - literally, the freedom of mankind.
BAGHDAD — Deepening the speculation about the severity of battle injuries to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, his followers Thursday squabbled on the Web over naming a new leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq, exposing rifts and raising questions about how the insurgency may change.
May has seen one of the bloodiest waves of violence to date in Iraq. More than 620 Iraqis and 60 US troops have died since the Shiite-led government was formed April 28.
Analysts say the insurgency can probably carry on for now with or without Mr. Zarqawi's guiding hand, pointing to the high level of bloodshed that killed at least 13 more people Thursday. But it is under increasing pressure from numerous US offensives in western Iraq, the loss of two-dozen top lieutenants, and intelligence from Zarqawi's captured computer. Iraq's budding government is also tightening its grip, announcing Thursday that it would launch a new offensive with 40,000 troops and set up 600 checkpoints in Baghdad.
"These operations will aim to turn the government's role from defensive to offensive," said Iraqi Interior Minister Bayan Jabor. Mr. Jabor said he is "not sure whether [Zarqawi] is dead, but we are sure that he is injured."
The long-term impact on a driving force behind the multifaceted insurgency may depend on whether Zarqawi dies or recovers enough to become "spiritual leader" of the group. "It won't make a great deal of difference if he has a more backseat role, but he will be more vulnerable," says Magnus Ranstorp, head of the Center for the Study of Terrorism and Political Violence at St. Andrews University in Scotland.
"If he dies, it would be a blow," says Mr. Ranstorp, contacted in Copenhagen. "It may atomize the insurgency, and different centers of gravity would emerge. He is a unifying factor for them."
So, okay, he dies.
Those divisions already appear to be taking root, with competing claims Thursday on the Web about the appointment of an interim leader of the group. A website that frequently posts statements by Al Qaeda in Iraq wrote: "The leaders met after the wounding of our Sheikh Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, may God heal him, and decided to appoint a deputy to assume the leadership until the return of our Sheikh safely."
According to that statement, the chosen man is Sheikh Abu Hafs al-Qarni - a Saudi militant who is believed to be Zarqawi's military adviser. He is "renowned for carrying out the most difficult operations" chosen by Zarqawi, on whose head Washington has placed a $25 million bounty. But shortly afterward, a new statement was posted, refuting the first and signed with the name normally attached to statements by Al Qaeda in Iraq. "We deny all that has been said about appointing the so-called Abu Hafs or anyone by any other name," it read.
Information about Zarqawi's condition is surfacing as several trends buffet the insurgency. US and Iraqi forces, which have launched three major offensives in the volatile western Anbar Province this month, report a rapid increase in intelligence they get from Iraqis weary of the violence, as well as from senior detainees.
The intense violence of May has also hidden the fact that fewer attacks have taken place against US and Iraqi government targets, according to US officials. They say that the current surge - 118 car bombs since mid-April - was ordered by Zarqawi at a meeting last month in Syria.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/27/2005 01:06 ||
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Three Indian soldiers and two militants were killed and four soldiers were injured in two separate clashes on Thursday in remote villages in Jammu and Kashmir, said police. A gun battle left two militants and an Indian Army soldier dead in the Kupwara district on Thursday morning. Four soldiers were also injured. "Fighting is continuing and reinforcements have been sent to the area," said a police spokesman. Another gun battle in a remote village in Doda district left two Indian soldiers dead, added the spokesman. "Both the gun battles were reported from remote villages," he said.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/27/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Graduating terrorists gunned down In a major success, security forces have destroyed the first-ever militant training camp in Jammu and Kashmir in Doda district and killed five ultras in the operation, official sources today said. Top Hizbul leader killed in J&K Security forces in Jammu and Kashmir on Friday killed a top guerrilla leader of the Hizbul Mujahideen who they say was responsible for 74 murders.
Muhammad Yusuf Sheikh alias Sajad, the divisional commander of the frontline guerrilla group, was killed after a nightlong gun battle with security forces in Chek Kawoosa (Yarigund) village of Badgam district, 30 km from here.
Posted by: john ||
05/27/2005 19:00 Comments ||
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#2
good news
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/27/2005 19:25 Comments ||
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A roadside blast wounded two NATO peacekeepers in northern Afghanistan on Thursday, police said, and a Taliban spokesman claimed responsibility for the explosion in an area in which they do not normally operate. "An ISAF vehicle travelling in a convoy was damaged by some sort of explosion," said a spokeswoman for the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF). Two members of the force were lightly injured, she said. She declined to give their nationalities but the chief of police in Baghlan province, 160 kilometres north of Kabul, said the two were from a Dutch unit based there. Taliban insurgents do not normally operate in Baghlan. The cause of the roadside blast was being investigated, the spokeswoman said.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/27/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
said the two were from a Dutch unit based there
The security agencies are searching for Al Qaeda-linked militants in Bajaur Agency after rounding up an Uzbek and some Afghan suspects recently, official sources told Daily Times on Thursday. Search for militants in the Bajaur tribal region had intensified after the arrest of Abu Farraj al-Libbi, Al Qaeda's operational chief in Pakistan, early this month from Mardan district. The officials said that he provided "some clues about others" in the area.
"The security agencies are concentrating on the Mamond area because there were reports about the presence of some suspects," sources said. "We are looking for foreign militants," sources said. They said Abu Farraj gave the interrogators information about his contacts in Bajaur Agency and secret agents were searching the area. They said the government made his arrest public on May 4, days after his capture in Mardan. On the same day, security forces raided houses of two clerics in Bajaur Agency and arrested an Uzbek, two Afghans and eight local tribesmen for suspected links with Al Qaeda and a tribal jirga on May 20 razed clerics Faqir Muhammad and Muhammad Amin's houses for violating the tribal rules.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/27/2005 00:00 ||
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Military Intelligence and Elite Police personnel arrested a suspected Al Qaeda operative from Multan Railway Station on May 25, witnesses told Daily Times on Thursday. They said intelligence and police personnel encircled the station several minutes before the Rawalpindi-bound 7-Up Tezgam arrived from Karachi. The moment the train stopped at Platform 3, police personnel entered the last car and caught the suspect, witnesses said, adding that they threw a sheet over his head and took him away. Several passengers told reporters that they could not board any train because law enforcement personnel asked all passengers on Platform 3 to leave before the train's arrival and asked railway staff not to let anyone onto the platform.
A police official told Daily Times that a suspected terrorist wearing a leather bustier and four-inch heelswomen's underwearladies' clothes a burqa (shroud) had boarded the Rawalpindi-bound train on May 23 from Karachi Cantt Railway Station and was being tailed throughout the journey. People earlier arrested had led law enforcement personnel to the suspected terrorist, he said, adding that he was taken to Rawalpindi.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/27/2005 00:00 ||
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Conflicting statements about the leadership of al-Qaeda in Iraq have appeared on the internet following reports that its chief, Jordanian Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, was wounded. A statement in the name of al-Qaeda Organisation for Holy War in Iraq was posted on Thursday on a website, saying the group had appointed a deputy to fill in for al-Zarqawi, but a later statement purportedly from a group spokesman swiftly denied it.
London-based Islamist activist Yasser al-Serri, who monitors websites used by such groups, said statements from spokesman Abu Maysarah al-Iraqi were more credible and the earlier posting was questionable even though it bore al-Qaeda's signature. The earlier posting had said that leaders of al-Qaeda in Iraq had met and named Sheikh Abu Hafs al-Qarni as deputy leader "until the return of our Sheikh (Zarqawi) safely". But the later statement from Abu Maysarah, who often posts al-Qaeda's internet utterances, said: "We deny what was issued about the appointment of the so-called Abu Hafs or any other name." The statement attributed to Abu Maysarah said the group had announced the wounding of al-Zarqawi on Tuesday to show its credibility and ease fears that he had died.
Iraq's interior minister said on Thursday he had received information five days ago that al-Zarqawi had been wounded, but would not say where it came from. "Yes, it is true," Bayan Jabor said when asked about the internet posting to that effect. "It is my job to know," he said.
Wafiq al-Samarrai, a security adviser to Iraq's president, told Aljazeera: "It is more likely that al-Zarqawi has been wounded during the vast military operations launched in western Iraq, Baghdad and Salah al-Din province. "There have been two possibilities: The first one is that the news was leaked by al-Zarqawi and his organisation to show him as a 'superman' and this is less probable. The second possibility is that he has been wounded." He said: "The wounding of al-Zarqawi gives the impression that terrorists are in a state of retreat." "Many of al-Zarqawi's aides have been arrested and they will shortly appear on TV screens," al-Samarrai said. When asked about reports that al-Zarqawi was moved to a neighbouring country accompanied by two physicians, al-Samarrai said: "We are not concerned with wherever he goes as he is now considered out of the battle."
Posted by: Fred ||
05/27/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Well, they shouldn't push it. If the Board of Directors of Al Qaeda had their act together they would have already picked a successor to the Z-Man. It doesn't have to be announced to the stockholders when selected, and it doesn't have to be disclosed on their 10K. Legally, and by SEC rules, they can keep that information sealed from the public. It is a pretty rookie mistake if you ask me. If this is typical of how the corporation works, they are going to be in trouble when they get their Sarbannes Oxley Audit.
I imagine they're using a headhunter to help narrow their selection choices. They would be pretty stupid to put it on Monster.com or similar internet jobs boards.
I wonder what their job requirements are? There's a definite employee discrimination suit awaiting them. They would have to prove that being a crazed muslim was necessary for the job. Ha! It will take them a month just to get the HI-B visa approved.
Hell, they might as well just outsource the job to China. Otherwise they will get killed with costs. Another thing the Middle East is years behind America in.
#4
Well I think al-Qarni was named but al-boxer and al-byrd are blocking it and demanding that 60% of the al-Q leadership approve before a new leader is selected.
#5
And the Al-Q corp stock is becoming junk because the management is pushing self-destructive policies. If you are going to sell short, better do it now before the 3PM market closing.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
05/27/2005 8:53 Comments ||
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#6
Yeah, looks like the liberals in the al-Qaida of Iraq want to fillibuster...
U THE RASCALS BUSH DECIPLES.....Y U PEOPLE ARE SO,,,,AFRAID OF MUSLIMS......HAS THEY FUCKED UR BUSH...AND THE WHOLE WEST...WRITE SOME GOOD REMARKS....IF U ARE RELLAY LIBERLA AND TOLERANT NATION......ZAHEER MASHOOD RAVIAN
I had to kinda sorta agonize over whether to leave this or dump it. We get these now and then, you know, the semiliterate screech from the enemy camp. I'm not sure if we're supposed to be frightened, convinced, shamed, or what. But since I'm just back from a good dinner and I just fixed an irritating little programming problem, let's discuss Zaheer's points, since they're obviously well thought out.
Yes. Us rascals here are Bush's disciples. We think he's doing the right thing by trying to bring some modicum of liberty to the Middle East. After you Moose limbs declared war on us — remember that, Zaheer? — we didn't pay attention. We were all snug and secure in our own country and we weren't bothering yours. America was a country at peace with all the world when you Islamists decided to fly airliners full of non-combatants into civilian targets in New York, killing a few thousand innocents.
That's something you're really proud of, of course, just as you're proud of the way the Taliban managed to take poor, primitive Afghanistan and make it even poorer and more primitive. You're really proud of the fact that you killed Masood, the man whose forces actually defeated the Soviets, while Hekmatyar was busy intriguing and plotting in Pakistan and then rocketing Kabul to try and grab power himself. No doubt you're really proud of the way the Taliban stayed out of the fight, safe in their madrassahs in Pakistan, and then picked up the pieces when Hekmatyar plunged Afghanistan into civil war. Probably you're also proud of how many of those "Afghan" Taliban were born and bred in Pakistan.
I'm sure you're really proud of all the other things your fellow Islamists have done, too. You've lopped off the heads of innocents in half a dozen countries. Islamists took hostage a theater full of people who'd gone to see a show in Moscow. They blew up a den of iniquity full of people whose sin was taking a vacation in Bali. They blew up a few trainloads of people whose sin consisted of going to work in Spain. They've desecrated Christian holy places in Palestine, slaughtered schoolchildren in the Caucasus, and shot up churches, schools, mosques, and anything else they could get close to in Pakland. Those are all points of pride with you, aren't they, Zaheer?
Hell, yes, we're afraid of Moose limbs. I'm frightened to death of them. Sane people fear the irrational, they're afraid of mindless fanaticism. I'm also afraid of rabid dogs and venomous snakes. And I'm scared lest the weak-kneed elements in my government stop Bush and his people from killing those same rabid dogs and venonous snakes. I don't want my children and grandchildren to grow up in the kind of world you Islamists have made for yourselves in the ratholes you rule.
Yes, we're a liberal and tolerant nation. That's a good indication that Islamists aren't in charge. We live in countries where the individual's allowed to do as he pleases. If he wants to bow down toward Mecca five times a day, he can do that; if he doesn't want to, he's free not to. We're not required to go to church, synagogue or mosque. There aren't restrictions on what we can say. We can decide we don't want to be Christians or Jews or Moose limbs one day and not worry about some wild-eyed, spittle-spewing fanatic trying to kill us — unless we lose our focus and stop trying to bring individual liberty and civic responsibility to the ignorant and vicious. We can even poke fun at the Profit (PTUI) and his holy men if we want to. And you can't.
Oh, and I might add that you seem to be a lot more concerned with skin color than anybody here. I have no idea what the complexion is of most Rantburgers — all except the handful I've met could be bright orange with bright blue palps for all I know. One of the things we've worked out, for the most part, in our liberal and tolerant society is people putting up with each other's physical differences. You haven't even started on that road in Lahore, have you?
#3
Damn prejudiced jerk should know better than get Fred's dander up. Well said, Fred.
BTW, I wondered why someone nut from Pakistan would post from Tokelau. Dot Tokelau is giving away domain names free of charge. They probably should be careful to whom they are granting this privilege.
#4
bet this "Islamic Scholar" led the charge against the US desecration of the Koran, not realizing that, by existing such as they are, they are more of a desecration than we could conjure up? Inshallah!
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/27/2005 0:37 Comments ||
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#5
The midnight time indicates this arrived between 9:00 PM and Midnight EST - that prolly means it was just before old Zaheer went off to Friday Prayers, to get the official screed for the week. Sounds like he was quite looking forward to it.
I believe, upon reflection, that what Zaheer is trying to say is we should forget what has happened, go back to being who we were on 9/10 - so he and his fellow Muzzies can, again, use our freedoms and tolerance and trust against us.
Or, simplified: Stand still, infidel, I'm aiming.
It won't happen, Zaheer. We were once sitting ducks, but we learn fast. Your time, the age of blind insanity, tribalist barbarity, and theocratic totalitarianism is ending. You're right to be outraged at us - we're the ones who are ending it. You attacked the wrong infidels. We will take you on and take you out. That tolerance shit is for the clueless fools - the ones that never learn and fail to grasp that evil can't be "fixed" or "reasoned with" or "understood" or "made into friends". We will kill you where you stand, where you seek to enslave others, where you shake your tiny fists, where you breed. You asked for it when you attacked us, you ask for it again every day as you and yours preach and repeat hatred and jihad. You can expect repayment 10-fold. Your bad. Sucks to be you. Buh bye.
Stick around dude, and pay attention. Plenty o'good people here making plenty o' good remarks. Hell, you might even learn somethin'.
Posted by: Rafael ||
05/27/2005 1:54 Comments ||
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#7
Zaheer I would be more than happy to gut you with with your own dagger after I shoot your worthless carcass. I fear no man, nor religion and I will allow neither to attempt to cower me. Live free or die, the choice is yours to make.
#9
Does the ellipsis denote abbreviaiton of the message? If so, could we please have Zaheer's full text? It's a quiet day in the office and we could do with a giggle.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
05/27/2005 6:07 Comments ||
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#10
I can't add a thing, Fred, you said it all.
Posted by: Mike ||
05/27/2005 6:40 Comments ||
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#11
That's the whole message he posted. I left it to Fred to decide whether to forward it to RB or trash it.
#12
My goodness, yes indeed. I twelfth Fred's words, and what everyone else said. Except I'm not going to do the gutting-with-his-own-knife thingy... blood is so hard to get out of clothing if you let it sit for any time at all. The proteins clot, y'know.
Thanks for posting Zaheer's message and the 1998 Binny Fatwa. On this Memorial Day weekend we need a reminder to finish the job that so many have given their life for.
Hey Zaheer! I checked your website. Nice pics of you and your friends! Sure wearing a lot of the trappings of the evil infidels!
#15
Those are nice pics, Zaheer. I wonder if they're in in some CIA database by now?
And one more thing? Website design doesn't appear to be your future...
WAZIRISTAN PARADISE FOR ALQAEDA AND TALIBAN FIGHTERS
"Waziristan is the largest tribal area of Pakistan. What is going on in Waziristan i.e operation in Wana against al-qaeda and taliban fighters is shameful for pakistani govt.
Doesn't this show that in fact we are the terrorists i.e Pakistan is a terrorist country. Because if we are not terrorists then why there are so much terrorists (mujahideens) in our country.
In fact we have forgotten that we are Muslims and that Jihad is the duty of every muslim.
So the warriors in Wanna are not terrorists but they are mujahideens.
If the US and Pak army are giving them the name of terrorism then we will do this terrorism because "no compromise on religion".
I don,t know how the Pakistan govt and US forces had forgotten our past history. we born free and will maintain our freedom on each cost. If the pak govt is doing voilence on childrens and women there then we will feel no hesitation in killing them.
Al-qaeda and talibans are our guests and we know how to sacrifice our lives for our guests.
The flower which a common waziristani tuck on his ear is a sign that he love peace and the rifle which he decorates on his shoulder is an indication to all that every waziristani is ready for war.
Abbas maseed Ravian (ex-razmian)
GC University Lahore"
I guess the fact that he has gone ALL CAPS suggests some hardening of his position.
Posted by: Tom ||
05/27/2005 9:54 Comments ||
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#21
amazing how articulate a good meal can make a man. well said, Fred. Frankly, we need constant reminding.
#23
Another Paki screecher. BFD. Fred and .com have given him worthy responses. People like Zaheer are beyond clueless and are, literally, foaming at the mouth. So, since they are rabid dogs, they need to be put down with extreme predjudice. If it weren't for that fact that India is down wind, I would stronly urge that Waziristan be used for a much-needed above ground nuclear test.
That got my attention. So I scrolled through the Zaheer's image gallery. Lo and behold!
There are certain fungi (not shrooms, just molds that attack certain plants) that render people raving mad. They attack crops like barley, rice and poppy.
The last crop with fungus is especially explosive combination.
#25
I'm anxiously waiting for the time when we're allowed to hunt these animals for sport. They're not human beings, so I should be able to kill as many as I like. Or perhaps, buy "mooselimb stamps" at your local Sporting Goods store.
Put a roll of toilet paper, or the koran(the same thing as toilet paper), on a string and drag it through the streets....trolling for mooselimbs.......BANG! BANG!
Maybe then we can rid our country of this awful smell around convenience stores.
Hunt them to extinction, I say.
Posted by: Tom Dooley ||
05/27/2005 13:36 Comments ||
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#26
I guess the fact that he has gone ALL CAPS suggests some hardening of his position.
#27
God, those image files: they all look like my Dad's old Iranian grad students from the 70's. I used to have breakfast with guys that looked like that. Scary. Of course, that's not nearly as scary as the fact that my dad was a professor of physics and nuclear science....
#29
Stupid media slave. This one is not just a media slave, he is a slave to the Islamo-media, a pathetically crude imitation of their western masters.
#30
Abbas maseed Ravian (ex-razmian)
GC University Lahore"
Another Pakistani scholar. A credit to the Ummah.
Here is an interesting link
These are actual admissions questions for their M.Sc. ( Graduate school entrance!!) program at (Mohammed Ali Jinnah University)
It is said that light is shadow of God. Once Diogenes took a lamp in his hand in day time and looked about in the streets full of people and said, "I am in search of an honest man".
Light spreads education and knowledge. In all developed societies education occupies central place. Today we see tremendous explosion of knowledge all around. Nations with strong educational profiles are leaping forward and making viable economic growth and development. â¦.
Answer the following questions:-
Q-1: What did Diogenes search?
a) a lamp b) an honest man
b) shadow of God d) education
Q-2: What is the place of education in developed societies?
a) a bottom place b) huge place
c) central place d) small place
1) If the average of a and -5 is 10, then a equals to
a) 15
b) 25
c) 5
d) -5
1) Which one is an excellent insulator
a) Iron
b) Water
c) Wood
d) God (????)
2) Water consists of
a) Hydrogen, Oxygen
b) Helium, Oxygen
c) Hydrogen, Carbon
d) Oxygen, Carbon
3) Astronomy is a science of
a) Stars and Galaxies
b) Pop stars and Film stars
c) Human Behavior
d) Animal Behavior
Posted by: john ||
05/27/2005 15:58 Comments ||
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#31
Hell, at this point that's less Islamic than Berkeley's entrance exam!
#32
To be fair, some of these questions are testing English proficiency rather than science, and it did include example questions from trigonometry and basic differential calculus.
But yes, I share your suspicion about the content's rigor ....
#33
But for grad school, not undergrad admissions?
Posted by: john ||
05/27/2005 16:32 Comments ||
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#34
Rascals, are we?
RASCALS?
Now, I can accept that some may regard us as nefarious conspirators, war-mongering megalomaniacs, and diabolically ruthless agents of the International Zionist Cabaltm, but "rascals"?
This kind of invective is clearly beyond the pale.
#35
Let me educate you, Zaheer, and give you some advice from a God fearer: You think you are building up Islam, when you are really digging its grave.
Christianity, my religion, thrived and grew without help from the state or from force of arms. Certainly, many died from infidels and idol worshippers, but they clung to their faith to their certain death, and won even more to their side.
What happened to my religion was that it became so trusted and popular, that Constantine decided it could rule HALF of the Roman Empire.
That began its downfall. For power attracts the power hungry. Under the guise of piety, they took power and ruled the Church as a tool like Kings, instead of tending it like a Shepherd does the sheep. In the end, they were overthrown: the clerics, both bad AND GOOD, were destroyed.
IN America, we reached an agreement: The government would never be a tool to enforce religion, and all religions would sustain themselves and win new members by persuasion. We are not, by definition, a Christian nation, but Christianity has thrived here. Enough so to make men worry we would do in the 21st century what was done in the 4th.
Take it from me, Zaheer: We would be more wildly successful and have many more converts if it was NOT for that shameful past, where the Church used force instead of persuasion to survive. They hold present day Christians, me included, responsible for what was done centuries ago, JUST AS you hold us, today, responsible for what happened during the Crusades (which took place during the time the Church held state power). Despite reform, despite new behavior, despite generosity, despite selfless service, our past continues to haunt and frustrate our ability to bring men to a God who loves them and wishes to make them his Children, NOT HIS SERVANTS. No free Christian, uncoerced by thug or state, would willingly forsake being a Child of God, and become a MERE SERVANT. Some Muslims STILL HAVE SLAVES: THEY CAN TELL YOU THE DIFFERENCE.
Your religion, Islam, is now where Christianity was 10 centuries ago: a religion running a state, and using it to propagate itself by force, because no sane free man would choose a religion that made you a slave of God over a religion that made you a CHILD of God. In the name of that retrograde religion, you are piling up atrocities: far more than Fred has enumerated. You already have a long history: Remember, you invaded Spain and were defeated in France THREE CENTURIES before the First Crusade. YOU STARTED THAT FIGHT FIRST.
Look at the comments before and after mine: Many among them are those who have not chosen Christianity, and thus have no obligation to hear the call of mercy to the defeated.
I'll repeat that, because you'd better remember it: They have no obligation to hear the call of mercy to the defeated.
You will be defeated. Your religion justifies itself by saying it wins wars. It will be refuted, because you will be defeated. Your screams begging for mercy will be ignored, because their eyes will be gazing, not at your terrified face, but at the blood you are putting on your hands now.During this very moment.
Islam may survive, but it will be neutered. Future Imams will blush red and stammer as they will try to explain away why Jihad is spiritual warfare, when thousands of years of history and tanker-ships of blood, spilled mere years after the founding of Islam by its own founder, up until the 21st centry, will be thrown in their faces with the same scorn as the history of Christianity is now.
Trust me: I don't like it. AND Those future imams will not like it. As they turn away, face red, they will notice the hand cautiously placed on the holstered gun, and they will KNOW that the infidels will not be lulled by promises of Hudna, patriotism, and good faith, but at the first sign of resentment, perhaps of a raised voice, the infidel will whip out that gun and put a BULLET THROUGH THEIR BRAINS, and justify it by saying, "Damn muslim tried to Jihad and Hudna me, but I beat him to it the moment I saw that SQUINT in his eye. You know, that SQUINT that sez, 'Damn infidel, if you won't choose to believe Allah, I'll DAMN MAKE YA BELIEVEe!'"
And his fellows will nod sagely and pat him on the back and tell him, "He shore didn't MAKE ya, did he Jeb?"
#38
There's one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet that needs to be addressed: Mecca and Medina mean NOTHING to Christians. Neither does Karbala, Najef, Qom, or any other "Muslim Holy Place". Jersualem does. Muslims need to understand that we can be pretty damned independent if we get our backs up, and do what we think is necessary at the time. We bombed the hell out of Dresden and Hamburg, until the rubble was ground into smaller rubble. We expected to take a million casualties by attacking the Japanese main islands. We used a new weapon, one we weren't even sure would work, instead.
Today we have an entire arsenal of weapons we haven't used since World War II - not in Korea, or Vietnam, or Kuwait, or Bosnia, or Grenada, or Panama. That doesn't mean we WON'T use them, just that we haven't decided it would be necessary to use them.
A bit of stupidity by the mullahs of Iran may change our mind. Any really NASTY attack against our homeland may convince us we need to shorten this war by a decade or two, and we change our minds. We may just decide that Islam is fundamentally incompatible with freedom, and change our minds.
That would not be a good thing for Islam, or Muslims in general. Remember, though, we have many, many rational people who believe acting irrationally may be benficial under the right circumstances.
If I were a Muslim, I would work night and day to ensure those circumstances were never met. It might not only save that Muslim's life, but his entire world.
Think about it. Think long and hard. We are.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
05/27/2005 20:44 Comments ||
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#39
And that ladies and gents is a perfect example on 'how not to post on a debating forum'
I guess he posted after the lobotomy with a blunt instrument .
#41
Good points, Old Patriot. It has been three years and eight months since 9/11 and, despite our flexing our muscles in Afghanistan and Iraq, punks like Zaheer (who flaunt handles like "WAZIRISTANI_TERRORIST") are still proudly pulling our chains. I have to say that I've tired of it -- to the point of being willing reduce places like Waziristan to ash without any hesitation. I don't think Zaheer recognizes that three years ago I would have given him benefit of the doubt but now I have no reason to bother. Now I'd nuke him just to be done with it. He could see far worse than Bush -- and he may, before it's over.
Posted by: Tom ||
05/27/2005 21:17 Comments ||
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#42
U THE RASCALS BUSH DECIPLES.....
Ok - I accept both being a "bushy" and a rascal. Chicks also dig my scar.
Y U PEOPLE ARE SO,,,,AFRAID OF MUSLIMS......
Because you guys tend to shout things like "death to america" maybe?
HAS THEY FUCKED UR BUSH...AND THE WHOLE WEST...
Well, yeah, we would rather leave you alone, you just won't stop blowing things up.
WRITE SOME GOOD REMARKS....IF U ARE RELLAY LIBERLA AND TOLERANT NATION......
I thought we established first sentence that I am a bushy and a rascal? I hate to dissapoint you. Expect to get knocked down and your wallet taken
ZAHEER MASHOOD RAVIAN
What? No phony Doctor or student label?
Satire aside, we need to treat anti-us speach in occupied areas just like NAZI speach was in post WWII germany. If you say you hate us, we need to take you at your word and jug you for a decade or so.
The Iraqi government yesterday said reports that insurgent leader Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi has been injured were true. "Yes, it is true," Interior Minister Bayan Jabr said when asked about a posting on a website that said Zarqawi had been wounded.
The minister said he had received information five days ago that Zarqawi had been wounded, but would not say where the information came from. Yesterday, conflicting statements about the leadership of Al-Qaeda in Iraq appeared on the Internet. A statement in the name of Al-Qaeda Organization for Holy War in Iraq was posted on a website saying the group had appointed a deputy to fill in for Zarqawi, but a later statement purportedly from a group spokesman swiftly denied it.
Late complications from an abdominal wound that Zarq might want to consider: 1) wound dehiscence. That's a nasty one as it means the wound is infected, the surgeon was clumsy, or both. 2) abscess. There's one that's tough to diagnose and tough to treat. Frequently requires additional surgery, Zarq, and that means another trip under the knife. 3) colostomy complications. Yep, an abdominal wound frequently requires the use of a temporary colostomy, and one can get infections, strictures and 'dumping syndrome' from that. Plus eventually you have to put the colon back together, and that means another Bard-Parker scan. 4) adhesions. Frequent complication of abdominal surgery, usually requires more surgery, and can result in a partial or full bowel obstruction. Those aren't fun. 5) aneursym. Any vascular structures hit, Zarq? You can always get an aneursym at the site of repair. Those have a tendency to burst at all the wrong times.
And we haven't talked yet about the complications from hitting an organ like the liver or kidney. Or the sucking chest wound and its complications. Enjoy, Zarq.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/27/2005 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
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#1
Well, any gangrenous members can be treated nicely with maggots. Definitely old school; Allan would approve.
And nothing sez old school better than a good ol' fashion bloodletting, to better balance the humours, ya know. I have a very reliable delivery service, just give me your address and I'll drop-ship a box of medical grade leeches right to your coordinates door.
#3
I vote for a Sucking chest wound complicated with spetic infection followed by a massive pulmonary embolism. A shredded Liver or Pancreas wuith a massive septic infection also will do. Dead is Dead, as long as this pig is dead.
Afghanistan hit back at Italy yesterday for meddling in negotiations to free an aid worker kidnapped ten days ago, escalating a war of words between Rome and Kabul. Clementina Cantoni, who works for CARE International, was dragged from her car in Kabul by armed gunmen in an incident which has prompted foreigners to tighten security measures.
"The Italian Embassy, without informing us, has set up some contacts with the alleged kidnappers. We believe these kind of contacts are not helpful for the negotiations and the safe release of Clementina," Interior Ministry spokesman Lutfullah Mashal told AFP. "We were suggesting that the contacts should be made from one channel, from the Afghan side only," Mashal said.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/27/2005 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[11131 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
The Afgghan governmet is trying to send a message, do not offer any ransom. Any ransom will just be used against us Afghans. Crawl back into your hole and STFU.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
A U.S. Navy ship seized more than 4,200 pounds of hashish in the northern Arabian Sea, U.S. Central Command announced Friday. The USS Kauffman, a guided missile frigate, and the German frigate the FGS Karlsruhe tracked the vessel Al Naveed before it was boarded last Friday. The boarding team found the drugs in 96 large bags hidden behind a false bulkhead, Central Command said. It is the largest find to date, Centcom said.
Saudi Arabia's 
The leader of a United Nations investigation into the assassination of Lebanese former Prime Minister 
Today, May 26, 2005, the Information Section of al-Qaeda in Iraq, through "its own special media channel (broadcasting) which is known to Muslims by the name 
A young Palestinian man who allegedly planned to launch or assist a suicide bomb attack inside Israel was arrested by IDF forces in the Nablus area Friday afternoon.
A suicide bomber set off explosives Friday in the midst of Shiite Muslims reciting the Quran, killing at least 20 and wounding dozens gathered for a religious festival at a shrine near the capital. The motive was not immediately clear, but there are frequent sectarian attacks in this Islamic country by extremist elements of the Sunni and minority Shiite sects. An AP photographer at the scene counted at least 20 bodies, many in pieces. An intelligence official said at least 20 people were killed and 150 were wounded. The bomb ripped through hundreds of worshippers as they were reciting from the Muslim holy book beneath tents at the Bari Imam shrine outside Islamabad.
A roadside blast wounded two NATO peacekeepers in northern Afghanistan on Thursday, police said, and a Taliban spokesman claimed responsibility for the explosion in an area in which they do not normally operate. "An ISAF vehicle travelling in a convoy was damaged by some sort of explosion," said a spokeswoman for the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF). Two members of the force were lightly injured, she said. She declined to give their nationalities but the chief of police in Baghlan province, 160 kilometres north of Kabul, said the two were from a Dutch unit based there. Taliban insurgents do not normally operate in Baghlan. The cause of the roadside blast was being investigated, the spokeswoman said.
The security agencies are searching for Al Qaeda-linked militants in 
Military Intelligence and Elite Police personnel arrested a suspected Al Qaeda operative from 
Afghanistan hit back at Italy yesterday for meddling in negotiations to free an aid worker kidnapped ten days ago, escalating a war of words between Rome and Kabul. 
