Article

2022-04-06 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

Did Putin just publish a genocide manifesto?

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Posted by Throns Snore9432 2022-04-06 00:00|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [17 views ] Top

#1 Putinists don't like it when you notice their actual goals.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-04-06 06:32|| 2022-04-06 06:32|| Front Page Top

#2 This interpretation is absurd. Nowhere does the article call for "genocide" or anything close to genocide.

Posted by Clinens Hupirt7014 2022-04-06 07:24|| 2022-04-06 07:24|| Front Page Top

#3 It calls for "denazification" then declares the idea of a Ukrainian national identity as leading inevitably towards "Naziism", adding that a "significant part of the masses" are just as guilty as the upper ranks.

It's excusing the mass murder of Ukrainians and the erasure of their identity.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-04-06 07:40|| 2022-04-06 07:40|| Front Page Top

#4 Some "national identities" need erased. I don't know enough about Ukraine to have an opinion either way, but my gut instinct is "they have never done anything to me, but here they are asking me to get into their fight. I don't see a need to do that."

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-04-06 07:45|| 2022-04-06 07:45|| Front Page Top

#5 Ain't it funny: Leftists, eurines, other foreigners despised the idea of "America: World Cop" until suddenly they didn't.

Curious.

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-04-06 07:47|| 2022-04-06 07:47|| Front Page Top

#6 WTF? Are you sure about what you just wrote?

Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-04-06 07:48|| 2022-04-06 07:48|| Front Page Top

#7 Do you even know anything about the origin of the term denazification? We created it during WWII. It was conscious US and Allied policy from 1943 onward. Wiki has a good overview: "an Allied initiative to rid German and Austrian society, culture, press, economy, judiciary, and politics of the Nazi ideology following the Second World War. It was carried out by removing those who had been Nazi Party or SS members from positions of power and influence and by disbanding or rendering impotent the organizations associated with Nazism."

Posted by Clinens Hupirt7014 2022-04-06 07:51|| 2022-04-06 07:51|| Front Page Top

#8 Yeah, Rob, I am. I have this process: I think about what I want to say and then I say it. When I shoot from the hip, it's not with words.

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-04-06 07:52|| 2022-04-06 07:52|| Front Page Top

#9 George S. Patton got in a lot of trouble over his take on "denazification."

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-04-06 07:53|| 2022-04-06 07:53|| Front Page Top

#10 Murcek: You basically said that anyone who wants help with their defense deserves extinction.

"Clinens": Category error. We didnt declare German identity as leading inevitably to Naziism.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-04-06 07:59|| 2022-04-06 07:59|| Front Page Top

#11 You understand what the National Socialist Workers Party actually stood for? They were socialist. It's all the same left wing authoritarian/totalitarian crowd with just different costumes and slogans.

Posted by Procopius2k 2022-04-06 08:01|| 2022-04-06 08:01|| Front Page Top

#12 You basically said that anyone who wants help with their defense deserves extinction.

No. I didn't say that at all. The fact that you read it that way tells me I'd be wasting my time trying to straighten you out on the matter.

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-04-06 08:04|| 2022-04-06 08:04|| Front Page Top

#13

When a nation attacks another nation, it usually vilifies the victim and portrays itself as a hero. Attackers will even sometimes fake an attack to justify starting a war.

To justify the usual massive numbers of the victim nation's civilian deaths, attackers will claim items from a typical political excuse list.

To maintain control any attacking nation must eliminate or neutralize as much of the victim nation's traditions, culture and rewrite its history. So it reduces the victim nation's population and encourages mass migration of its own people to it. While destroying historic statues and books.

Posted by NN2N1 2022-04-06 08:04|| 2022-04-06 08:04|| Front Page Top

#14 excusing the mass murder of Ukrainians

What on earth are you smoking?

Denazification isn't "mass murder." We didn't "mass murder" Germans as part of our denazification policy.

We did in fact kill lots of German civilians in Operation Gomorrah in July 1943, the firebombing of Hamburg that incinerated 37,000 German civilians. But no rational person would call that "genocide" or confuse that military action with our denazification policy.

Posted by Clinens Hupirt7014 2022-04-06 08:06|| 2022-04-06 08:06|| Front Page Top

#15 #3 Putinists don't like it

WTF? "Putinists"? It doesn't make one a "putinist" to point out obvious facts - that purging an enemy's postwar society of the extremist tendencies that, among other factors, contributed to the conflict is a standard US policy. We applied it when we deBaathified Iraq just as we and our Allies applied it to denazify postwar Germany. It's our term. We invented it.

Someone needs to take a Valium.

Posted by Clinens Hupirt7014 2022-04-06 08:11|| 2022-04-06 08:11|| Front Page Top

#16 Clinens uses the Herb McCoy "we." Were you around when we firebombed Dresden and Hamburg, Clinens? I certainly wasn't. I also wasn't around for slavery, nor were my ancestors, as regards slavery in the US pre-Civil War. Haven't been involved in any slavery in the US since then either. That seems to mostly be the purview of rich Arabs in the US southwest in the current day.

The Herb McCoy "we" says I am complicit merely by holding US citizenship (from birth in my case, third generation American)

I don't buy it. At all.

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-04-06 08:13|| 2022-04-06 08:13|| Front Page Top

#17 "Herb McCoy"?? This thread is going off the rails. First there's the laughable equation of denazification with "Putinism" -- you're on safer ground calling it something like "Rooseveltism," given the term's origins. Then another poster who opposes the first poster, the Putinism nut, starts making things up using some mythical person in his head.

If it helps, Murcek, I don't think our firebombing of Hamburg was unjustified. Civilian casualties in a war zone are inevitable. It might have helped Vonnegut tell his Billy Pilgrim story better but Slaughterhouse Five is a work of fiction. So chill, ok?

Posted by Clinens Hupirt7014 2022-04-06 08:22|| 2022-04-06 08:22|| Front Page Top

#18 For the record, I was born 14 years to the day after the second A-bomb was dropped. The last year Cadillacs had big fins.

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-04-06 08:31|| 2022-04-06 08:31|| Front Page Top

#19 Western/American denazification sort of skipped over those considered of intel or scientific value or use.

Posted by Procopius2k 2022-04-06 08:34|| 2022-04-06 08:34|| Front Page Top

#20 ^ Yes.

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-04-06 08:35|| 2022-04-06 08:35|| Front Page Top

#21 Hey, I was born in '59 too! Year the Dodgers left Brooklyn. Grew up a Mets fan -- builds "character," yuk yuk

Posted by Clinens Hupirt7014 2022-04-06 08:36|| 2022-04-06 08:36|| Front Page Top

#22 Actually the Dodgers left in '57... I'm losing my marbles (damn Alzheimer's)... "ah yes ah remember eet well"

Posted by Clinens Hupirt7014 2022-04-06 08:38|| 2022-04-06 08:38|| Front Page Top

#23 Don't care when anyone was born.

Putin's "denazification" has the same motivations and goals as Stalin's "dekulakization".

Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-04-06 09:03|| 2022-04-06 09:03|| Front Page Top

#24 Putin isn't Hitler, Stalin, Mao, or even Pol Pot, Rob.

Deal with it.

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-04-06 09:06|| 2022-04-06 09:06|| Front Page Top

#25 Give it up, buddy. You've got Putin on your brain.

Posted by Clinens Hupirt7014 2022-04-06 09:07|| 2022-04-06 09:07|| Front Page Top

#26 Not sure who you are talking about, Clinens, but I only have Putin of the brain to the extent everyone else does these day. No more, no less. He's just another politician with nukes. He bears watching. I neither worship nor revile hime. I just don't think he's looking out for anyone but himself.

Deal with it.

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-04-06 09:11|| 2022-04-06 09:11|| Front Page Top

#27 Murcek, my comment was directed at the "Putinists" guy, not you. He's the one with the Putin obsession

Posted by Clinens Hupirt7014 2022-04-06 09:14|| 2022-04-06 09:14|| Front Page Top

#28 Reasoned discourse. What it's all about here. If I came off as hostile to you, Clinens, I apologize. I really don't agree with anyone 100% of the time, even myself. But I don't shut out divergent opinions either. I try to remember I don't know everything, never will, and might benefit from listening more than talking.

Carry on.

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-04-06 09:17|| 2022-04-06 09:17|| Front Page Top

#29 I agree with this: "He's just another politician with nukes. He bears watching. I neither worship nor revile him."

The demonization of this politician is over the top. Sort of like reading The Guardian's characterizations of Ariel Sharon, or of George W Bush during the Iraq War.

Posted by Clinens Hupirt7014 2022-04-06 09:18|| 2022-04-06 09:18|| Front Page Top

#30 Boosh's reputation has not aged well. Sharon was over the top but he was what his times required. I have a hard time imagining the history books seeing Bidet or Bath House Barry as towering figures. Putin's chapter is still being written. He can influence that by being moderate when he actually does not seem to be needing to do that.

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-04-06 09:22|| 2022-04-06 09:22|| Front Page Top

#31 Ariel Sharon did a policy reversal at the end of his career and received lavish praise for it, even from the Egyptians. But he was still a ruthless and cunning manipulator all the way.

Posted by Clinens Hupirt7014 2022-04-06 09:51|| 2022-04-06 09:51|| Front Page Top

#32 Putin started the war in the Ukraine. His mouthpieces are pushing for genocide and rattling their nukes. If you don't like attention being paid to the guilty party, go elsewhere.

And, again: "denazification" is this century's "dekulakization".

Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-04-06 10:02|| 2022-04-06 10:02|| Front Page Top

#33 Putin started the war in the Ukraine.

He certainly escalated simmering tensions. I'm not a Putin apologist, so I don't argue he's blameless.

What I do argue is that the USA has. no. dog. in. this. fight. Proxy wars have never worked for the US, even though we mainly win them.

We can't break the cycle by playing the same bad hand again. Want Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics et al to have less influence in American politics? Quit giving them so much money to send arms to foreign lands.

I'm not Code Pink, but I am tired of this crap.

Posted by M. Murcek 2022-04-06 10:08|| 2022-04-06 10:08|| Front Page Top

#34 bill gates ghost author name he uses!

Posted by Greng Black3494 2022-04-06 12:38|| 2022-04-06 12:38|| Front Page Top

#35 The Fourth Ideology is looking ever more increasingly like the third.

Posted by Secret Master 2022-04-06 13:12|| 2022-04-06 13:12|| Front Page Top

#36 ^^^^ SM, did you men this?
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Fourth Political Theory
Author Aleksandr Dugin

The Fourth Political Theory (Russian: Четвертая политическая теория, Chetvertaya Politicheskaya Teoriya) is a book by the Russian philosopher and political analyst Aleksandr Dugin, published in 2009. In the book, Dugin states that he is laying the foundations for an entirely new political ideology, the fourth political theory, which integrates and supersedes liberal democracy, Marxism, and fascism.[1] In this theory, the main subject of politics is not individualism, class struggle, or nation, but rather Dasein (existence itself).[2]

The book has been cited as an inspiration for Russian policy in events such as the war in Donbas,[3] and for the contemporary European far-right in general.[4]

Posted by NoMoreBS 2022-04-06 16:46|| 2022-04-06 16:46|| Front Page Top

#37 If you don't like attention being paid to the guilty party, go elsewhere.

Maybe you don't consider the perpetrators, enablers and complicit parties of the Maidan Coup to be guilty of anything.

Perhaps you assign no guilt to NATO for unnecessarily backing Putin into a corner until he felt like he had no other option than to come out shooting.

You might not see any harm in Biden's failure to attempt a diplomatic solution to all of this while he and his Deep State puppet masters continue to beat their war drums.

You can say what you like about Putin but I don't believe he is all that stupid. He had to know how pathetic his army is and that Western sanctions would cripple his economy and yet he invaded Ukraine anyway. Why? Do you really believe he thinks he can restore the Russian Empire to all of its former glory when he can't even take Mariupol? Win or lose in Ukraine, Russia will suffer for years if not decades from the effects of this war. Why would he do this?

I'm not going anywhere.

Posted by Abu Uluque 2022-04-06 17:52|| 2022-04-06 17:52|| Front Page Top

#38 Joe Biden Escalates War Rhetoric with Russia in Speech to Union Workers: ‘If I’ve Gotta Go to War, I’m Going With You Guys’

You're telling me this guy is not a war monger? He's getting his rocks off threatening to go to war. He's as bad as fucking John McCain. You're telling me he's not guilty of anything at all?

Posted by Abu Uluque 2022-04-06 18:12|| 2022-04-06 18:12|| Front Page Top

#39 "If I’ve Gotta Go to War"

Biden has lost his mind. This malicious clown has always been a lying sack of shit but this ain't funny. The man is dangerous and needs to be put away

Posted by Spusonter Phutle8963 2022-04-06 18:43|| 2022-04-06 18:43|| Front Page Top

#40 ^ Yep NoMoreBS. You nailed it.

Posted by Secret Master 2022-04-06 18:43|| 2022-04-06 18:43|| Front Page Top

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