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2008-09-08 Home Front: WoT

Outmaneuvered And Outranked, Military Chiefs Became Outsiders

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Posted by anonymous5089 2008-09-08 13:25|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [9 views ] Top

#1 Difference between managers and leaders. Usually in peacetime you can not distinguish clearly between the two. Wartime sorts them out.

Part of the chiefs' job was to figure out how to accelerate the military's overall global readiness and capacity,

Management.

But in wartime you need to follow the principles of Objective and Mass and apply them to the battlefield.

There is major attitude difference from trying to avoid losing and trying to win.

Posted by Procopius2k 2008-09-08 15:35|| 2008-09-08 15:35|| Front Page Top

#2 Wait a minute. All I heard back then was how the Generals all were asking for more troops all the time.

Now this is saying that they weren't and that GW almost had to force the surge down their throats.

Why should I believe Woodward on this?

Posted by AlanC">AlanC 2008-09-08 15:38|| 2008-09-08 15:38|| Front Page Top

#3 why would you believe woodward on anything.

a lot of quotation marks

Posted by bman 2008-09-08 16:18|| 2008-09-08 16:18|| Front Page Top

#4 It will be interesting to see how the liberals handle this, since the alternative to do things the President's way is to do things according to the Chiefs.

In other words, goodbye civilian control of the military.

Presidents should listen to their military chiefs. But presidents aren't obligated to do everything they're advised to do.

Posted by Steve White 2008-09-08 17:17|| 2008-09-08 17:17|| Front Page Top

#5 The sage comments of Procopius2k are spot on. "Hope is not a method." What "W" was desperately seeking was a plan, a method which would lead to success. Let me say that Generals Pace and Schoomaker are very fine officers. Unfortunately, while the Tiger Team of colonels were Rangering up PPT Course of Action (COA) slides, the Joint Staff was out maneuvered or deep throated by the AEI and Big Army generals. Not favorably disposed to surgical, Special Operations solutions, these generals and were still stinging from Rumsfeld's appointments, attitudes, and directives. POTUS already had the answer along with the implementor, LTG David Petreaus. My heartburn in all of this is the release of confidential and sensitive historical communications and strategies btwn POTUS and his Joint Staff. The war continues. There will be plenty of time for lessons learned and books when the dying ends. I have no reason to challenge Woodward's veracity. I will however challenge the loyalty to POTUS that some officers appear to have in releasing all of this. Very disappointing on the eve of a presidential election. Just my two cents worth.

Posted by Besoeker 2008-09-08 19:54|| 2008-09-08 19:54|| Front Page Top

#6 Not saying Bush is Lincoln-like, but isn't this how Lincoln eventually won the civil war - trhwoing away overly cautious generals, and going with fighters Grant & Sherman and and thier proteges like Phil Sheridan?

Posted by OldSpook 2008-09-08 20:56|| 2008-09-08 20:56|| Front Page Top

#7 Yep, OS. A lot were worked through till Lincoln found a few that could deliver. They all weren't overly cautious. Some were definitely out generaled.

Posted by Procopius2k 2008-09-08 21:36|| 2008-09-08 21:36|| Front Page Top

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