Fredrich St. Florian has everything to be proud of. A memorial honoring so many of our brave soldiers who fought pure evil was long overdue.
I am still still forced to pause in silent reverie whenever I see the Colma City Veterans Cemetery, where my own grandfather is buried. It almost goes beyond individual conception to imagine how many young soldiers were rushed through basic training, shipped overseas to countries where they spoke not a word of the language only to catch a bullet with days of arriving.
As one who has long studied architecture, I am thrilled to see such a profoundly beautiful monument grace our nationâs stately capital. The classic imagery and evocative design work perfectly compliments the mallâs existing beaux arts style.
Look carefully at the wall of 4,000 gold stars. Each one of those emblems symbolizes 10,000 lost American lives. I cannot thank our WWII veterans enough. I would not be here today had not my Danish mother survived the Nazi occupation of Denmark. I am eternally grateful for all they sacrificed in our nationâs name.
Posted by: Zenster ||
05/30/2004 5:26:45 AM ||
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The Khobar attack didnât have the usual suicide MO, which indicates to me that it could well have been a trial run for something else - presumably bigger. One odd thing which got almost no coverage was the terrorist who was killed was trying to get into the building where the hostages were. He drove a car up to the building. At the time I thought just another Islamo-nutball trying to get himself killed in the dumbest way possible. Now with 3 terrorists escaping I think he was part of a getaway plot that went wrong. Anyway to my point - the problem with the suicide MO is there is no learning curve and no Darwinian selection at work. The next bunch of terrorists is as dumb as the last. Drop the suicide MO and they start to get better at it. An alarming development.
INTELLIGENCE agencies fear that the Islamic terrorists behind the deadly kidnappings in Saudi Arabia over the weekend are planning a "spectacular attack" in the country, The Times reported today. Twenty-two people were killed in the Saudi terrorist operation, including hostages whose throats were slit before commandos moved in. Key oil installations or the causeway linking Saudi Arabia to Bahrain were among the possible targets of a future attack, according to the British newspaperâs intelligence sources. Final preparations for such an attack were being made by al-Qaeda sympathisers, The Times said. The Times article is behind paid subscription.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/30/2004 8:16:37 PM ||
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#1
I'm not so sure that this means they are about to get "better" at attacks. It seems like they are just more sensitive to losses.
Back in the 70s and 80s, the terrorists weren't so much the suicidal type, they had (stupid) plans to escape with hostages and the like, but they weren't all that spectacular in their abilities then.
On another note, every western country aught to pull their people out of Saudia Arabia and let the price of oil be damned. When the place goes up in an inferno much of the terrorists efforts will go toward trying to take over there.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
05/30/2004 20:42 Comments ||
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#2
I fully agree the fanatical jihadees are hell bent on not only disrupting the flow of oil from Saudi Arabia but want to control all Persian Gulf based crude oil exports as economic hostage, in the hope they can ruin the entire western economic system through market fear, triggering a sell off of stocks, and jacking up energy prices through the roof.
Since jihadees are sick of mind, in their view they will live very happily in a giant Lebanon style debacle, butchering each other for absolute control of Islam....pure madness!!
To think a few demented Mohammedans have the capabilities to alter international financial trends is hard to believe, but we have the power to strike at some of the main sources of this Islamic terrorist rampaging....Iran & Syria-Lebanon!
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/30/2004 20:57 Comments ||
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#3
I'm not so sure that this means they are about to get "better" at attacks. It seems like they are just more sensitive to losses.
I'm not sure about that. It has the marks of a more guerrilla attack that went wrong. The objective was not necessarily to "die for Allan" but to trigger an expatriate exodus. That's more in line with 'revolutionary' thought.
#1
Jeez - I'll bet Prince Naive is "humiliated" once again by his troops' inability to stop an attack or capture surrounded bad guys. Must be a congenital thing for Arabs
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/30/2004 19:58 Comments ||
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#2
How stupid does a terrorist have to be to be caught by the Saudis?
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
05/30/2004 20:24 Comments ||
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#3
We should've known it was gonna be a screw-up when they announced the Oasis compound was "surrounded."
Methinks they either found a hideout in one if the bldgs or one or more families sympathetic who're hiding them.
A4617 - Isn't Oasis, basically, a city block in size? I know there is more than one bldg, but I only visited it once - through the main gate and the leasing office - you're a regular. If you would, plz describe where someone might hide in there, if truly surrounded - in the normal non-Saudi Keystone Cops sense of the word, heh. ;-)
#4
Maybe the word 'surrounded' just doesn't have the same meaning in Arabic. "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means".
#5
SOP for containment of a crime scene is to establish a cordon of armed enforcement officers who maintain line-of-sight contact with each other at all times. Any idividuals trying to cross such a perimeter are detained at length in order to establish any chance of involvement with the crime in progress.
If the Saudis are incapable of such an elementary procedure, then we should do them a favor and immediately put them out of our their misery. They would have little chance of surviving further terrorist attacks anyway.
There has been bipartisan condemnation in the United States Congress of the Saudi Arabian Governmentâs efforts to stamp out terrorism. Some in the US believe Saudi Arabia is now facing more than a terrorist threat and is instead confronting a low level insurgency. Despite this, Senate Foreign Relations Committee Republican chairman Richard Luger says the Saudis continue to fund radical Islamic schools. "The Saudi Government funds the Madrass schools and out of these come young Saudis who join these militant organisations," he said. Democrat House leader Nancy Pilocey agrees. "I donât know how many more acts of terrorism will have to happen for them to wake up," she said. The US embassy in Riyadh has renewed its call for US citizens to leave the kingdom.
#1
TS - you left some words out of your headline. It should read:
US condemns Saudi fake efforts to pretend to end terrorism
;-)
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/30/2004 19:07 Comments ||
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The Saudis thought feeding the crocodiles would save them. It's a little too late for "bi partisan" tongue lashing from our elected politicians, who neither saw nor spoke any evil about the princes until recently.
Here's a 5/10/04 article from USA Today that documents how precarious the Kingdom's future is. The mass exodus of oil industry ex-patriots will not be helpful to the princes, since most Saudi folks still can't work more than a 2 hour day without feeling weary.
Yet another good reason to treat our stalwart allies, the Kurds, nicely. Their VAST oil resources are yet untapped; Kurds are not Arabs; Kurds have been treated VERY badly by Muslim nations, so they have no illusions about their Muslim brethern. Hopefully, the Sods can keep the barbarians from rushing the gates for another couple of years until we get Kurdistan oil derricks up and running. After the Sods fall, so sad, too bad, we can declare war on the new terrorist gov't.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2004-05-10-saudi-oil_x.htm "Taking down Saudi Arabia's oil infrastructure is like spearing fish in a barrel," former CIA officer Robert Baer writes in his recent book, Sleeping with the Devil.
The Saudis have 262 billion barrels of proven reserves, 25% of the world's total. Nine percent of the petroleum consumed in the USA each day comes from Saudi Arabia, accounting for 15% of U.S. imports.
The kingdom has five giant fields that are connected by 10,500 miles of pipe, much of it above ground. A coordinated assault on five or more key junctions in the system could put the Saudis out of the oil business for two years, Baer writes. "The choke points are too many to count," he says. His conclusion: A successful assault on the giant Ras Tanura complex "would be enough to bring the world's oil-addicted economies to their knees, America's along with them."
Posted by: rex ||
05/30/2004 19:26 Comments ||
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#4
this is indeed serious and all the more reason not to tap the strategic oil reserve as some dems have suggested. keep filling it up regardless of the cost of oil.
Posted by: Dan ||
05/30/2004 20:17 Comments ||
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#5
The House of Sa'ud created the monster that is now biting the hand that feed it all these years.
If it were not for the fact we can not allow the jihdees control all that crude oil, I for one would say, let the 'royal Sa'udis' sink in their own sand.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/30/2004 20:43 Comments ||
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#6
ANWAR!
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/30/2004 21:24 Comments ||
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A man identified as al-Qaidaâs chief in Saudi Arabia claimed responsibility for an attack in the kingdomâs oil hub on an audiotape posted on the Internet Sunday. Tap, Tap
A speaker who identifies himself as Abdul Aziz al-Muqrin, believed to lead al-Qaida operations on the Arabian Peninsula, describes terrorists attackers "slaughtering" hostages during an attack that began early Saturday with a (a) attack, (b) assault(c) shooting rampage in at oil company offices in Khobar, 250 miles northeast of Riyadh. Probably thought they would be misidentified for Post Office employees
The crisis ended 25 hours later when Saudi security forces thought the hostages were all dead stormed another building where suspected Islamic militants were holding Western hostages. Saudi comedians commandos entered the expatriate resort early Sunday to punch in for combat pay and medals free up to 60 foreign hostages seized by Islamic militants who had sprayed gunfire inside Persian Gulf oil industry compounds, murdering killing up to 16 people. An unknown number of Americans were among those killed and taken captive.
The number of dead is up to 20 now. Probably it's higher than that...
The purported al-Moqrin recording ended with what appeared to be sounds from the attack. Shots could be heard, and men were shouting: "Cheese it, the Cops! Open this door quickly!" They didnât end with Insallan?
The authenticity of the purported tape from al-Moqrin could not be verified, but the voice resembled the voice on previous tapes attributed to him. On the web site, it accompanied a statement purportedly written by al-Qaidaâs cell in the Arabian Peninsula claimed all of the hostages had been killed. "The holy warriors didnât leave any of the hostages alive. Extra Virgins all around. All those infidels and Crusaders who were in their hands were liquidated," it said. The tape and statement were on a Web site known for militant Muslim content.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
05/30/2004 11:11:57 AM ||
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Heard about the three terrorist, the insiders methinks, that got away. Snuck out the front door to a waiting MB sedan, white with tan leather seats. This while the comandos were checking out the back door. Stun grenades and all.
Saudi state television turned to interviewing everyone from children to intellectuals to try to rally citizens against terrorism as it reported Saturday on the latest outburst of extremist violence in the kingdom.
Hmmm... Maybe we should do that here...
As the hostage standoff continued into the night, Saudi TV's last newscast of the day included brief interviews with six men, apparently security officers, injured in Khobar. They all denounced the attacks and said they were wounded doing their national duty - protecting the country. Since car bomb attacks that killed 35 people, including nine suicide bombers, at three Riyadh compounds housing foreigners last year, Saudi Arabia has launched public relations campaign aimed at discouraging Saudis from offering any kind of support to extremists. It has also led to an unprecedented public discussion in Saudi Arabia about whether the austere version of Islam expounded in the kingdom might contribute to extremist violence. On Saturday, Saudi television broadcast patriotic anthems and interviewed a number of Saudis and foreigners living here, who all denounced the latest attacks. The citizens called upon the government to deal with the militants firmly, with some calling the perpetrators the "deviant bunch," one of the labels Saudi authorities have used to describe militants. The interviews appeared with the caption "The Street Pulse." Children were also interviewed, and many described the attacks as "terrorism." On an hour-long talk show aired Saturday, intellectuals called upon the nation to stand up to terrorists.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 1:48:59 AM ||
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#1
Gee... you think they might connect the snakebite they got with holding that viper so close to their chest?
#2
Yes, out of one side of their mouths they say that they denounce terrorism. Out of the other, they keep spewing hatred and terror against Americans and jews. Take a look at the Arab News today. Right next to the article on the hostages, there is an anti-american one. This goverment is too stupid (or still playing the game- lets blame american and jews for every thing going wrong with muslims)to realize that it is the hatred that they instill in their own people that will destroy them.
KHOBAR, Saudi Arabia -- Dozens of American, European and other hostages were released Sunday, and a gunmen believed to be the lead Islamic militant holding them was arrested, a Saudi security official said, adding that two other gunmen were "in the process of being arrested." The security official would not comment on the whereabouts or conditions of the hostages, saying only: "It has ended. One has been arrested and two are in the process of being arrested - they are surrounded."
Soddies don't do well when they have Bad Guys surrounded...
A soldier on the scene said that seven gunmen had been arrested. When told that security officials were saying two were not yet in custody, he said they were on two floors that troops had not yet reached. Neither the soldier nor the security official would comment further, with the security official saying the Saudi Interior Ministry would issue a statement on the resolution later.
FOLLOWUP: I was right. FoxNews reports that three of the four bad guyz got away. I don't know who the hell they captured. Could be alk runners.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 1:47:18 AM ||
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#1
Sky News is saying that mos hostages were freed. 2 militants killed and 2 captured. They also said that some hostages were killed,also.
#3
If any of you have a friend high up in CNN, Fox, ABC, NY times, Washington Post or any major news outlet, write to him/her asking to give this massacre major coverage. They are going to try to whitewash or minimize it, as they always do, when it casts a bad light on muslims. If they could keep the stupid "abuse" photos 24/7, they can also give this massacre the coverage it deserves.
#5
This is bad. The Saudis will work very hard to slow the story down. Eliminate as much of the shock as possible. Dribble out details. Pay any price to prevent release of "bad" pictures. In effect, they want the final toll and means of death to be as anti-climactic as possible. There will even be some quiet finger-pointing at those who died trying to escape... "Had they only waited for the Saudi Commandos to save them..." with a sad head shake. I can picture Bandar and Jubair now. They will have tips from acting coaches before they appear to "explain" things. And the PR firms employed will be on overtime until this finally comes out. It will - too much coverage to hush it up - but how it's covered, well, they'll do their level best to sanitize it, soften it, remove the drama.
I just received another email, this one from a good friend, a residential compound manager in the vicinity of the Al Rashid Petroleum Centre - he and his family were gone because of the 3-day weekend - so his Co. gave them Memorial Day for American employees & the private schools accomodate. He said he's accelerating their July departure. I won't relay anything about the 2 men among the dead he knew. The woman I mentioned in yesterday's thread as having been wounded in the legs (Diane Reed) is going to be "okay" (she'll live), so that turned out right.
No matter how softly they manage to make this land on the world stage, the locals will know every gory detail within the next few days or so. The effect the asshats desired will be achieved - only the desperate Expats will stay, everyone else will leave if they keep the details fresh in their minds. Funny, those who are still there in 3 months will forget much of the terror - humans are foolish that way - and the asshats will have to repeat this to remind them... but we all know they'll do it, so regards Expats in Saudi, they'll win.
First they'll send their families out - you won't be able to find a one bedroom apartment for love nor money in 90 days. Oasis doesn't even HAVE any one bedroom apartments, I looked the place over (and gagged on the pricetag) - many housing compound are family only. Al Saad, the owner of Oasis with all its vaunted security and "fortress" features which didn't mean diddley-squat when they were needed, will be a sad motherfucker, indeed, very very soon. So sad.
I / we always knew that when the jihadis confronted the Saudi gate guards, they would either run like hell, die in place, or cooperate. In other words, they wouldn't deter, much less stop, dick.
So, if just making the Expats leave was their primary goal, they'll succeed - no one will put his family in harm's way if he can help it.
As for the House of Saud... Riyadh's been hit and Khobar's been hit. Only Jeddah remains as a major reservoir of Western Expats thus far unhit. They'll get around to it. I'm sure the exodus will now seriously begin, though. Ignore news reports about Riyadh. Riyadh's nothing compared to Dhahran regards the Expat population and the effect of their exodus. Aramco is based in Dhahran and they make the money that Riyadh spends. I wondered how long it would take for the asshats to get it. They just did.
#6
Another way to look at this, is as tax the Saudis have to bear to keep their economy going. Expertise will cost more and will likely be of lower quality. Now we have to do is bring the demand and hence price of oil down and the whole thing (SA) comes down like a house of cards.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/30/2004 6:57 Comments ||
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#7
.com,
You do know these people! That is exactly what they are trying to do - waterdown the atrocities. None of the gory details were mentioned in yesterday meetings. But, like you said, the locals know and some will talk. We are getting our information from a doctor at Al-Saad who is married to a friend of a friend.
I just cannot get over the hypocrisy of saudis, in general. When the "abuses" of the Iraqi prisoners broke, they were circulating those photos throughout the company. You would see groups of them talking and being repulsed by such despicable acts. Now, they are going about their business as if nothing has happened.
A lot of families are leaving or at least the wives and children are. My husband, my son and I are leaving all together. We decided money is not worth your life.
You mentioned that greaseball Jubair, where is he? He has not been on TV for a while now.
#8
"You mentioned that greaseball Jubair, where is he?"
Lol! We're certainly of the same mind on this little Abdullah lap monkey, heh. I think the last time I saw him was on Fox about 2-3 weeks ago, so he is still around.
If the Saudis didn't invent hypocrisy, then they perfected it! Maybe both!
I can't recall - do you get Fox inside? Maybe via AFRTS? It's NOT available on the Orbit Satellite network. BBC, CNN, MSNBC, and that "stolen from the airwaves mix of ABCNBCCBS" was it. Fox will do the best job of coverage on this, I'll bet big money.
Jubair will show up, but the heavy lifting will be done by Bandar and Faisal - this is the biggest deal they've faced since Aziz opened the valve to fill the first tanker.
I'm glad you're headed out. Take care, but to be honest, I don't expect the asshats will mount another attack in Dhahran area soon - it'll be locked down very very tight. I used to bitch about the 2-3 roadblocks and car searches I had to negotiate back when they were just feeling touchy. Shit - that was probably nothing compared to what's going on today. But stay safe anyway!
#11
I know about the Sunday "meeting". Oooh, one of the "princes" was there, doncha know. Said he was doing everything possible to make it a safe working environment, and the jihadis would be captured, blah, blah, blah... These asshats had plenty of time to drive around town dragging a brit's body, had time to get stuck in traffic, and then make another hit on another building with no interference from the "police". And there's still no hazardous duty pay because Sod-land is such a safe place to work, doncha know.
#12
Maybe it's time for the expats to leave Saudi, but make sure to turn off everything including the lights and the desalinization plants before they leave. And oh, by the way, don't leave the instructions behind. Do you think there are enough Pakis to run the machinery? Saudis can't do much more than flip an on-off switch.
Posted by: Random thoughts ||
05/30/2004 23:10 Comments ||
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#13
Any news regarding anything relating to Islamic terrorism being feed to the global public via the state run Sa'udi news agency, is like supermarket tabloid reports of massive snowstorms covering Mali & central Brazil, plus Elvis being spotted in a Irish pub on Mars!
Lies, lies and more of the same.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/01/2004 1:12 Comments ||
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#14
Given that the complete ineffectualness of Saudi security has been proven conclusively, is there not now a clear opportunity for expatriate-manned security? Or, dare I say it, contractors?
Fourteen militants allegedly involved in an attack on a French oil tanker, including a man sought by the United States, refused to enter pleas Saturday as their trial began under tight security.
"Ya got nuttin' on us, coppers! Nuttin'!"
The 14, some of whom are believed to be linked to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida terror network, said they had not had a chance to hire lawyers and would only offer pleas in the presence of a defense team. Key among the defendants is Fawaz al-Rabeiee, a Yemeni sought by the FBI. A 15th suspect was being tried in absentia. The court heard the prosecutor's list of charges that included the planning and carrying out of the Oct. 6, 2002, suicide attack on the Limburg tanker. The attack killed one Bulgarian crew member and caused 90,000 barrels of oil to spill into the Gulf of Aden. The group was also charged with carrying out the November 2002 attack on a helicopter carrying employees of the U.S. oil company Hunt Corp., the attempted assassination of U.S. ambassador Edmund Hull and the killing of a Yemeni security officer. The prosecution blamed the attacks on the Limburg and the American helicopter on al-Qaida. The defendants cried "Allah Akbar," or Holy Shit! God is great, upon hearing the prosecutor's charges.
Wonder if they did the Wave.
Although refusing to plead, one of the men, Mohammed Saeed al-Amari, told the judge that there was "just talk" between him and others about a possible attack on Hull in retaliation for the CIA-operated assassination of Sinan al-Harethi, al-Qaida's chief agent in Yemen, in November 2002.
"We was jus' joshing with 'em!"
Another defendant, Qassim al-Rimi, acknowledged that he was assigned to monitor the U.S. embassy in San'a. The defendants, who were dressed in blue prison uniforms and were handcuffed behind bars, complained of mistreatment and said they were locked underground at the intelligence headquarters.
They were expecting penthouse accomodations?
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/30/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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#1
What about the panties? Were they forced to wear pink panties? The media has a right to know.
Posted by: ed ||
05/30/2004 1:40 Comments ||
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#2
Shall we speculate upon the potentially harsh penalties awaiting these conspirators should they be convicted? Listed in order of likelihood:
Hostility towards Islam permeates every part of British society and will spark race riots unless urgent action is taken to integrate Muslim youths into society, according to a devastating report. The Commission on British Muslims and Islamophobia (CBMI), which is chaired by a key government adviser to the Stephen Lawrence inquiry, warns that more and more Muslims feel excluded from society and simmering tensions, especially in northern English towns, are in danger of boiling over. Members of the commission interviewed scores of British Muslims for their report, which will be published this week and will conclude that Britain is âinstitutionally Islamophobicâ.
It emerged last night that the government is considering new laws to stop radical muslim clerics coming from overseas to preach in Britain. According to reports in a Sunday newspaper imams will have to pass a âcivic engagement testâ which will include an English language exam and questions on British culture. Public funds will be provided for the training of home-grown clerics in order to halt the influx of militant preachers from the Middle East. The report produces a raft of evidence suggesting that since the 11 September attacks there has been a sharp rise in attacks on followers of Islam and their mosques and a rise in anti-Muslim sentiment across a range of UK institutions. Ahmed Versi, editor of the Muslim News, who gave evidence, said: âWe have reported cases of mosques being firebombed, paint being thrown at mosques, mosques being covered in graffiti, threats made, women being spat upon, eggs being thrown. It is the visible symbols of Islam that are being attacked.â
Dr Richard Stone, chair of the commission and an adviser to Sir William Macphersonâs inquiry into the murder of Stephen Lawrence, warns in a foreword to the report that: âThere is now renewed talk of a clash of civilisations, a new global cold war, and mounting concern that the already fragile foothold gained by Muslim communities in Britain is threatened by ignorance and intolerance.â The report suggests the situation in Iraq has had a negative impact on religious tolerance in British society. It quotes from an interview with Labour peer Baroness Uddin, who comments that: âThe perception that our government is pandering to the neoconservatives of America has given rise to the belief that all Muslims are implicated in the aggression. Each of us is constantly being asked to apologise for acts of terror that befall the world.â
Sadiq Khan, chair of the Muslim Council of Britainâs legal affairs committee, told the commission, which was launched by Jack Straw in 1997, that recent changes in the law had also played a part. âLaws such as the Terrorism Act 2000 and the Anti-Terrorism Crime Security Act 2001 have helped to create a climate of fear,â he said. âThey have led to the internment in the UK of Muslim men, respectable charities having their funds seized, and charities suffering because Muslims are reluctant to donate for fear of being accused of funding "terrorists".â
More than 35,000 Muslims were stopped and searched last year, with fewer than 50 charged. Three years ago only around 2,000 Muslims were stopped and searched. Asian peer Lord Ahmed, a leading critic of Muslim extremism, told The Observer he had twice been stopped and searched in recent months at Heathrow airport.â Iâve been stopped and searched at the airport after 9/11 too, and Iâm not Muslim. I donât feel like cutting anybodyâs head off for it though.
Statistics also show a sharp rise in the number of Muslims jailed. In 2001 there were 6,095 in UK prisons compared with 731 in 1991. Muslims comprise 9 per cent of the prison population but only 3 per cent of the population as a whole.âIslamophobia in Britain has become institutionalised. If we donât take positive action to embrace the young Muslim men in this country, we are going to have an urgent problem,â Stone said. âWeâre going to have real anger and riots with young Muslims pitched against the police.â The report is critical of the mediaâs treatment of Islam, especially its coverage of Abu Hamza, the radical cleric who was arrested last Thursday.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
05/30/2004 10:48:27 AM ||
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#1
"Hey! Look at us! We're seething over here! Dammit, if you don't treat us like innocent unassimilated Brits, we'll kill you! Cut your head off!"
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/30/2004 11:05 Comments ||
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#2
Britain is threatened by ignorance and intolerance Exactly!
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/30/2004 11:10 Comments ||
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#3
Hostility towards Islam permeates every part of British society and will spark race riots unless urgent action is taken to integrate Muslim youths into society, according to a devastating report.
Please do, start riots. Please?
I prefer a target rich environments. DPICM works best against concentrations of hostile forces.
#4
Typical islamic sense of destiny and entitlement. They can treat jews and christians however they please because they are infidels, but if anyone looks crosseyed at muslims, it's racism. Well the Brits are quite possibly the only ones in the West who actually have a soft spot for Arabs. If these dolts start rioting, that will change and they may actually find out what it feels to be on the receiving end of intolerance. I doubt that they will like it. Stupid buggers.
Clear proof of racism. Wasn't one of those guys the chap with the shoe bombs?
Posted by: Sam ||
05/30/2004 11:44 Comments ||
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#7
"The report is critical of the mediaâs treatment of Islam, especially its coverage of Abu Hamza, the radical cleric who was arrested last Thursday."
I see. Bad media for exposing Cpt. Hook and the failure to denounce him earlier.
#8
and will spark race riots unless urgent action is taken to integrate Muslim youths into society,
Pray tell me how they expect that to be done when to date all evidence points to European Muslims refusing to be integrated into the society in which they chose to live?
They deny current law of the land in favour of Sharia law.
Co-operating with the authorities in the interest of Britain's general security is seen to be at odds with being a Muslim as they would have to act against those extremists who are also Muslim.
#9
"Muslims comprise 9 per cent of the prison population but only 3 per cent of the population as a whole."
The racism is just outrageous. Come on Brits, be tolerant, let them behead a few, and maybe do a few honor rapes. Let them train a few terrorists, incite suicide bombings, and maybe strap explosives to just a few children. So what if their "moderates" think these things are ok, and do nothing to condemn the "extremists" amongst them. They should be treated as if they were peace loving British citizens - or they will riot.
Posted by: Rock ||
05/30/2004 11:53 Comments ||
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#10
There may be riots, no doubt. But I rather suspect the Muslims will be surprised to see who are the rioters and who are the riotees.
#11
âWe have reported cases of mosques being firebombed, paint being thrown at mosques, mosques being covered in graffiti, threats made, women being spat upon, eggs being thrown. It is the visible symbols of Islam that are being attacked.â
#12
British Muslims say hostility to Islam could trigger riots
I'd wager that should British Muslims prove inable to begin reporting clerics and adherents who advocate violent jihad there most certainly will be riots ... with smoking holes in the ground replacing many mosques.
While Islamists seem able to tolerate all sorts of abominations within their own cultures, something tells me the Brits will have a slightly lower threshold for such Neanderthal carryings on.
#13
rofl Lucky, the day will come when the country wisens up and rises up to the death cult that is Islam and starts flaming their Mosques,bet a fair few would go boom real good to due to them probably being used as ammo dumps,they use mosques everywhere else in the world for that purpose so why not here? Of course are law enforcent types are far to soft to do raid each and every mosque as should be done,there are only around 1200 mosques in the UK i think so surly in 24 hours the police could seal off and search every one of those? lets hope so anyway.
Posted by: Shep UK ||
05/30/2004 14:03 Comments ||
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#14
Best send in the robots first then! Everybody else take cover.
#15
More than 35,000 Muslims were stopped and searched last year...Three years ago only around 2,000 Muslims were stopped and searched.
Three years ago was...2001...and pre-9/11, the West was singing Kumbaye as an ode to multi-culturalism instead of reading the Koran with eyes wide open.
Posted by: rex ||
05/30/2004 14:33 Comments ||
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#16
US media is encouraging Muslim's worldwide to ask themselves "Why do they hate us?"
Posted by: Frank ||
05/30/2004 14:33 Comments ||
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#17
I'm pretty sure Britain's soccer hooligans can out-riot the Moslems any day, and twice on Saturday.
The whiners better not start
Or better yet....
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/30/2004 15:04 Comments ||
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#18
Once again the thought occurs: If you don't want to become part fo the British culture then WTF did you move there? Was this some attempt on the part of the muslims to proselytize the British or was it because they didn't much fancy the quality of life that inevitably follows living in a muslim country not blessed with oil? It would be to the Brits' advantage to deport every one that is not a British citizen and make the rest swear a loyalty oath that carries the death penalty if broken.
#19
We have reported cases of mosques being firebombed, paint being thrown at mosques, mosques being covered in graffiti, threats made, women being spat upon - oh, wait, that last one's us; sorry to trouble you infidels with that one.
Posted by: Shiekh Mohammed Abdullah Ibrahim Abdul Haji ibn al-Mohammed ||
05/30/2004 17:43 Comments ||
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#20
;-) heh heh
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/30/2004 17:51 Comments ||
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#21
"Weâre going to have real anger and riots with young Muslims pitched against the police."
Just shoot the little bastard Islamoturds. If they riot, they've asked for it. BTW: riot about what ? Are they "humiliated" because people don't respect their Islamic Idiocy?
They could always just go back home, where they're more appreciated . . . Pakistan . . . Iraq . . .
#22
Hooligans would love the chance at them I am sure.
Then some Hindy's would take over and there would be no stopping the rioting. The English love there beer and if they (The Moooooslems)start some shit early on a Saturday... The "Little Sheet Heads" would not come out of this looking very good. And who would care what the media would say. We all would be walking around with a wiley grin on our faces...
Britain signalled its commitment to its Muslim community on Sunday as a leaked document revealed a project to "win the hearts and minds" of Islamic extremists and al Qaeda sympathisers. The government project codenamed "Contest", which was leaked to the Sunday Times newspaper, suggested Britain might be harbouring as many as 10,000 al Qaeda sympathisers. "We donât comment on leaks, but the government is taking its relationship with the Muslim community very seriously," said a government spokeswoman. "But that is only one part of the strategy against terrorism."
Moderate Muslim preachers would receive state funding under the plan, while radical foreign imams would be asked to pledge allegiance to the British way of life or face a ban, said the Sunday Times, claiming to have seen over 100 pages of secret documents. "The aim is to prevent terrorism by tackling its underlying causes to diminish support for terrorists by influencing relevant social and economic issues," cabinet secretary Sir Andrew Turnbull was quoted as saying in a letter prior to a May 19 meeting to discuss "Contest". The project is said to have been prompted by the March 11 attacks on Madrid commuter trains, killing 191, and the discovery of over half a ton of bomb making material in a London warehouse two weeks later.
"Muslim-friendly workplaces" could be set up, along with moderate Muslim television and radio stations. In a note to Home Office permanent secretary John Gieve, Turnbull called for a blueprint to win "the hearts and minds" of Muslim youth. "Al Qaeda and its offshoots provide a dramatic pole of attraction for the most disaffected," he wrote. "The broader task is to address the roots of the problem, which include discrimination, disadvantage and exclusion suffered by many Muslim communities." More than half of Britainâs working-age Muslims are economically inactive, while 16 percent of them have never worked or are longterm unemployed -- five times the national average, according to a Home Office audit cited at the May 19 meeting. Between 10,000 and 15,000 British Muslims actively support al Qaeda, said another paper. Many Muslims are angered by the "double standards" of British foreign policy in the Middle East, it added. Democracy is preached, but oppression of the Ummah (the global Muslim nation) is practised or tolerated, for example in Palestine, Iraq, Kashmir and Chechnya," said the paper.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
05/30/2004 10:29:57 AM ||
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#1
"Britain signalled its commitment to its Muslim community on Sunday as a leaked document revealed a project to 'win the hearts and minds' of Islamic extremists and al Qaeda sympathisers."
Dear God in heaven... what the hell do the bloody monsters have to do, before we wake the hell up? Detonate a nuclear device in central London????
Memo to John Gieve: Islamic extremists and al Qaeda sympathisers don't give a shit if you're "nice" to them; THEY WANT YOU DEAD, along with all the rest of us, too.
The shimmering, iridescent idiocy described by this article is simply staggering; and if Osama bin Laden is alive and reading it, you can bet your ass he's laughing his damn head off. And he has every right to.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
05/30/2004 11:54 Comments ||
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#2
"The broader task is to address the roots of the problem, which include discrimination, disadvantage and exclusion suffered by many Muslim communities. . . . Many Muslims are angered by the "double standards" of British foreign policy in the Middle East, it added. Democracy is preached, but oppression of the Ummah (the global Muslim nation) is practised or tolerated, for example in Palestine, Iraq, Kashmir and Chechnya," said the paper."
Dave D. - you are absolutely correct. OSL is laughing, and reading this article is making me physically sick. If there is such a group as the moderate islamic community they must be some top secret organization. The radical islamist/al Qaedaist ideology is the most vile, demented, bloodthirsty philosophy since the lovely Nazis, yet we keep trying to determine how we can placate them. The government would do better concentrating on locating and identifying those who hold to these beliefs and eliminate them rather than gearing a program help the self esteem of the stealth moderates.
Posted by: Sam ||
05/30/2004 12:17 Comments ||
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#3
Agreed Binny would be smugly grinning and in general feeling extremely pleased with him self, not for the fact that terrzoids all around the world have sprung or are about to spring into action,no he'd be real smug because of the way our left wing, our media and the AQ propaganda war is going, a prime example was the Madrid rail booms, now after that all the media did was ultimatly blame George Bush and Tony Blair because they dragged Spain into the Iraq war,and that was that end of story,no looking into how long these groups had been established in Spain (pre Iraq war years),no mention was given of Binnys threats in the past to take Spain for the Muslims due to him being gutted they lost the first round of the crusades,I'm no expert in history as you can tell but i do know Binny had his sights set on Spain from along time ago.its just a shame the general public - those who matter don't get told of facts such as these,instead the media just tells them what they want them to hear.So so frustrating :( we'll never win the war against Islamozoids if our public are constantly missinformed deliberatly.
Posted by: Shep UK ||
05/30/2004 12:24 Comments ||
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#4
"Muslim-friendly workplaces?" This is the biggest load of idiocy I've ever heard in my life. At this rate, the Brits will surrender faster tham the Frogs -- at least, the government will.
Posted by: Infidel Bob ||
05/30/2004 12:47 Comments ||
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#5
Sounds like a whole lotta pandering to the enemy going on. Never a good choice, even in the best of times.
Britain has 10,000-15,000 Qaida supporters
The smart money would be on a substantial spike in earnings for deportation experts. Britain is a few watercress finger sandwiches short of a teatime if they think that appeasing militant Muslims is going to work.
Exporting the Westernized (read: softened up) Islamists back to their nations of origin is the only answer. Let these ungrateful wretches get a solid reminder of why they fled to Britain in the first place. Maybe then they will begin to fight for change in their own homelands instead of spewing their bile upon those who sheltered them.
#6
...Moderate Muslim preachers would receive state funding under the plan...In a note to Home Office permanent secretary John Gieve, Turnbull called for a blueprint to win "the hearts and minds" of Muslim youth...
Bribing Muslims to be non-murderous...Churchill would be proud...But who are we to point fingers at the British when our own city elders change noise ordinances so Immam wails can be broadcast 5X aday across a town square and our Justice Dept. fights for the rights of female students to wear head scarves to school? And the phrase used by the Brits "winning hearts and minds" sounds awfully familiar, and it was not on the BBC that I heard it. No worries it's only 800 men who have been killed so far, some with their throats slit to boot, while trying to implement this noble goal in Iraq. Call me "negative" or "cynical" but surely you must identify a wee tiny bit with the image of a pot calling the kettle black. Has PM Blair or President Bush put a moratorium on all immigration, because surely that would be a quick fix to increasing threats from problematic "individuals" setting up a home in Britain and the USA? OBL is laughing all right, my friends, and it's not just at Gieve and Turnbull.
As for a good home for OBL, Spain's a sentimental conquest #3, perhaps, but the real jewel, IMO, is Fraaaaance. France has nukes and is in a more strategic location for doing damage to other Western countries. Enough said.
Posted by: rex ||
05/30/2004 14:17 Comments ||
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#7
And well said rex.
The article made me spit. What is passing for brains has me spinning.
It's not a religion. It's a political movement hostile to western culture. The moskqs are political headqtrs. Until that is understood by our leaders, fearless leaders, it's two steps back for every step forward.
#8
Call me crazy, but I don't think this is going to work. My suspicion is that once they've gotten a few concessions, they'll become even more sensitive, demanding the censoring of things that non-Muslims still enjoy. Maybe they'll point to what's been given and claim that it's "humiliating" to have special things. Maybe they'll complain that those services showed a previous "consideration" that is "absent" in the case of the wider public. Maybe they'll just bitch for the hell of it. If this goes forward, they've taken the first step down a very slippery slope . . .
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/30/2004 18:07 Comments ||
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#9
"More than half of Britainâs working-age Muslims are economically inactive, while 16 percent of them have never worked or are longterm unemployed -- five times the national average, according to a Home Office audit cited at the May 19 meeting."
Isn't that a big surprise. Over half don't work and 16% never worked - and these are the ones who were industrious enough to heed the call - go west young man. These folks are in trouble.
When Americans heeded that same call to go west, it was with the expectation that through hard work they could make something of themselves, build something. We didn't go west for a handout.
Some terrorists from the Chinese province of Xinjiang are hiding in Lahore and Rawalpindi, Chinese Deputy Director of Public Security Ma Mingyue told a group of Pakistani journalists visiting China. Ma claimed that members of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, or ETIM, have melted into the Chinese community in the two Pakistani cities. The terrorist organization is not based in Pakistan but some of its members are present in these two cities, he explained. ETIM is one of the more extreme groups founded by Uighurs, the Turkic-speaking ethnic majority in Xinjiang, seeking an independent state called East Turkestan. The organization is also suspected of being an Al-Qaeda affiliate. Ma cited the case of Hassan Mahsun to substantiate his claim. Mahsun, accused by Beijing of bombing a building in Kashgar on June 17, 1996, allegedly escaped to Pakistan using a fake passport and stayed there with the people of Xinjiang before being introduced to Osama Bin Laden. He decided to move to Afghanistan where he remained in a terrorist training camp. Later he was âbumped off by the Pakistani police.â
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 1:12:16 AM ||
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#1
Isn't China pretty f%&king stupid if they're signing a $600 MILLION agreement to build isotope generators nuclear power plants for a country whose terrorist activity they then simultaneously whine about?
#3
It's time for China to reconsider their ill-thought-out plan of counterbalancing American nuclear might through proliferation. You'd think North Korea would demonstrate this to them. The politburo is so bound up in regaining face by playing picador to the United States that they are destabilizing their own borders. It's high time China got bitten on the @ss by their own moronic policy decisions.
It shall be interesting to see exactly how much attention China will continue to pay to these meddlesome tasks once their hyperactive economy implodes sometime next year.
An Australian resident arrested as an al-Qaeda-linked terrorist in Lebanon is wanted for a 1998 shooting attack on Lakemba police station in Sydney. Saleh Jamal, 30, of Belfield, skipped bail earlier this year on seven charges, including shooting with intent to commit grievous bodily harm. The charges relate to an incident in which drive-by gunmen sprayed the police station, in Sydneyâs south-west, with at least 16 rounds from an automatic weapon.
Lebanese authorities said Jamal was arrested along with another man known only as Haitham M, a Lebanese national, a Palestinian and a man of unknown nationality. The countryâs military prosecutor said the men were linked to the al-Qaeda terrorist network and were accused of "belonging to terrorist organisations, possessing weapons and plotting terrorist activities". If found guilty, the men could face life in prison.
A NSW police spokesman yesterday issued a public appeal for information about Jamalâs movements and activities since March and how he came to be overseas. He said NSW was waiting for more information on the Lebanese charges before starting extradition proceedings against him. A spokesman for Attorney-General Philip Ruddock said the Federal Government was seeking more information on the terrorism allegations from Beirut. ASIO and the Australian Federal Police would then investigate the manâs connections in Australia.
NSW police arrested Jamal on September 17, 1999, charging him with five counts of discharging a firearm with intent to cause grievous bodily harm, another of causing danger to the public by discharging a firearm and a further charge of stealing a motor vehicle. Later that day he fronted Central Local Court where he stood in the dock clutching a copy of the Koran. But he breached bail conditions by failing to report to police after a court appearance in March and a warrant was issued for his arrest. Jamal had previously served 16 months in jail on cannabis possession charges. He was also due to face court on two separate firearms-related charges.
The Lakemba attack took place at 1.15am on November 1, 1998. A red Holden Commodore pulled up outside the police station and shots were fired into the building. The glass doors were shattered and an officer narrowly escaped when a bullet hit his computer screen. No-one was injured. A spokeswoman for the Department of Foreign Affairs said officials in Lebanon would seek to confirm the nationality of the arrested men and offer them consular assistance "as appropriate."
#1
"Saleh Jamal, 30, of Belfield, skipped bail earlier this year on seven charges, including shooting with intent to commit grievous bodily harm. The charges relate to an incident in which drive-by gunmen sprayed the police station, in Sydneyâs south-west, with at least 16 rounds from an automatic weapon."
Bail? They let him out on friggin' BAIL?????
Dear God in heaven, please deliver us from bureaucratic, PC stupidity...
Posted by: Dave D. ||
05/30/2004 13:41 Comments ||
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...The reasons to deny Geneva status to terrorists extend beyond pure legal obligation. The primary enforcer of the laws of war has been reciprocal treatment: We obey the Geneva Conventions because our opponent does the same with American POWs. That is impossible with al Qaeda. It has never demonstrated any desire to provide humane treatment to captured Americans. If anything, the murders of Nicholas Berg and Daniel Pearl declare al Qaeda's intentions to kill even innocent civilian prisoners. Without territory, it does not even have the resources to provide detention facilities for prisoners, even if it were interested in holding captured POWs.
It is also worth asking whether the strict limitations of Geneva make sense in a war against terrorists. Al Qaeda operates by launching surprise attacks on civilian targets with the goal of massive casualties. Our only means for preventing future attacks, which could use WMDs, is by acquiring information that allows for pre-emptive action. Once the attacks occur, as we learned on Sept. 11, it is too late. It makes little sense to deprive ourselves of an important, and legal, means to detect and prevent terrorist attacks while we are still in the middle of a fight to the death with al Qaeda. Applying different standards to al Qaeda does not abandon Geneva, but only recognizes that the U.S. faces a stateless enemy never contemplated by the Conventions.
This means that the U.S. can pursue different interrogation policies in each location. In fact, Abu Ghraib highlights the benefits of Guantanamo. We can guess that the unacceptable conduct of the soldiers at Abu Ghraib resulted in part from the dangerous state of affairs on the ground in a theater of war. American soldiers had to guard prisoners on the inside while receiving mortar and weapons fire from the outside. By contrast, Guantanamo is distant from any battlefield, making it far more secure. The naval station's location means the military can base more personnel there and devote more resources to training and supervision.
A decision by the Supreme Court to subject Guantanamo to judicial review would eliminate these advantages. The Justices are currently considering a case, argued last month, which seeks to extend the writ of habeas corpus to al Qaeda and Taliban detainees at Guantanamo. If the Court were to extend its reach to the base, judges could begin managing conditions of confinement, interrogation methods, and the use of information. Not only would this call on the courts to make judgments and develop policies for which they have no expertise, but the government will be encouraged to keep its detention facilities in the theater of conflict. Judicial over-confidence in intruding into war decisions could produce more Abu Ghraibs in dangerous combat zones, and remove our most effective means of preventing future terrorist attacks.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 10:16:24 AM ||
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#1
This guy will never get anywhere; he makes too much sense.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
05/30/2004 11:29 Comments ||
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#2
This guy is considered a "conservative" legal mind, because he literally interprets existing law on the books and does not read into it. For that, the left vilifies him. But I would not call him "making sense."
To make sense Yoo would have said what the international laws are and then comment on how the laws are up to 50 years old and make no sense in today's War on Terrorism, whether the battlefields be in Baghdad against Al Fedayeen or in the hinterlands of Pakistan/Afghanistan against Al Queda.
Our current problem is that according to Geneva Convention IV, Al Fedayeen and facsimile Iraqi terrorists-in-training get rights as "civilians" because they are citizens of a hellhole country whose deceased leader signed the Geneva Convention of 1949. Al Queda caught in Afghanistan or wherever are "stateless," poor things. Thankfully, the 1977 Protocols I and II were not ratified by our country, or Al Queda would get Geneva Convention rights, too.
In practice, Al Fayadeen are equally as lawless as Al Queda, and it matters not that one group has Iraqi passports. To get around this meaningless Convention IV, Iraq should have been declared a "failed" state.
Then we could use "aggressive" interrogation techniques with Al Fayadeen et al in Iraq as we do with Al Queda in Guantanamo. Also, mosques would not get Convention protections in Iraq, as they do now.
Posted by: rex ||
05/30/2004 14:55 Comments ||
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From WebIndia
Pakistanâs interior ministry has claimed that Dr Aafia Siddiqui, the Pakistani-American woman who was declared as a terrorist threat (to the US) by the FBI, had been arrested in 2003 from Karachi and handed over to the US authorities. This is contrary to the reports suggesting that Ms Siddiqui had gone underground for past several years and she was being wanted by the US. The Dawn quoted a ministry spokesman as saying that she had been handed over to the US because she had "kept her US nationality". .... The FBI had claimed that she had hired the post office box for one Majid Khan, an alleged member of Al Qaeda, residing in Baltimore.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/30/2004 2:24:00 AM ||
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Muslim militants are warning the "people of the world" not to visit Phuket, a wealthy, tourist playground thus far untouched by the Muslim insurgency of southern Thailand. Phuket island, with floating bars set amid lush resorts with meticulously coifed foliage, rustic wooden bridges, stone paths and palm trees, remains untouched by the militants. But a recent harsh warning by the United Front for the Independence of Pattani, a feared guerrilla group usually referred to as Bersatu, included Phuket. Trying to turn another paradise into an Islamic hell. As they have done with Kashmir.
It was posted on the "official Web site" of the Pattani United Liberation Organization (PULO), which forms part of the united front along with the Mujahideen Pattani Movement and two smaller rebel groups. The unusual, one-paragraph "message from Bersatu" said: "Dear people of the world, persons who plan to visit Thailand NOW are warned not to travel to Pattani Raya Region Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat, Satun, Songkhla and the neighbor provinces [of] Phuket, Pangnga, Krabi, Pattalung. Pattani people are not responsible for anything [that] happens to you after this warning."
The only other announcement in English on the Web site was a plea by the group "urging the Thai authorities to investigate at least 60 people [who] disappeared" during security sweeps between Jan. 5 and April 9. That demand was signed by the groupâs deputy president, Lukman B. Lima, who was believed to be in exile in Sweden. In May 2003, Mr. Lima boasted Thai security forces were "falling like leaves" in southern Thailand because Muslims were rising up in "liberation movements" against "colonial" repression practiced by Thailandâs majority Buddhists.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
05/30/2004 10:14:22 AM ||
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#1
"Pattani people are not responsible for anything [that] happens to you after this warning."
Islamists are never responsible, cuz' they've been humiliated, see?
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/30/2004 11:18 Comments ||
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#2
Must be nice not to be responsible for anything, especially any murderous behavior. Suppose those Islamo-fool-cowards who cut off that poor old Buddhist's head the other day weren't responsible, either.
Looks like another coordinated and effective military sweep is in order...
#3
THIS is what the Islamoturds fear. You know why? Because they're weak, they're uneducated, they cannot build, they can only destroy--and they have no chance at all, EVER, to come up with cool stuff like this.
In fact, they want to turn everything, everywhere, into the ugly, ruined, desolate, places from hell that they all love so dearly.
If they succeed in scaring away tourism from Thailand, the people will lose everything, starve, and many will be forced to turn to prostitution, etc., to survive--JUST LIKE WHAT HAPPENED FOR THE INDONESIANS IN BALI.
An Iranian military chief has invoked historical facts to say that Iraqâs occupiers, riding roughshod over Shiâite sanctities, will be struck down by the divine wrath. "History has shown that the haughty and ignorant bullies, who are unaware of divine blessing to holy graves, will be struck down by the divine wrath and Muslim nations," said head of the Islamic Revolutionâs Guards Corps, Rahim Safavi. With all the earthquakes, freak storms and a fricken meteorite hitting Iran, you would think they would lay off the divine wrath stuff.
#1
Calling this brownshirt a "military chief" is wrong in so many ways. It also makes me laugh because many of Iran's top military commanders aren't even Moslems, they are Zoarastrians.
Different god, different smiting.
You clowns start some bad shit with us, you'll learn what wrath is.
TS is right; you'd think they would figure out where the "divine wrath" is landing lately, and do some serious thinking. You'd be wrong.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/30/2004 17:00 Comments ||
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#5
These guys bluster so much, how are we supposed to separate truth from hyperbole and know when they are serious? The childlike boasting and over-the-top threats are reminiscent of an elementary school playground and are more appropriate for whipping the locals into a frenzy than of something that is put out for the serious consideration of people who could vaporize you and your holy places with the only consequence being they might feel bad about it later. (Sorry for the run-on sentence, but fools bring that out in me.)
#6
Actually what this reminded me of was a ball cap that made the rounds in the late 70's. The cap featured a B-52 turning away from a mushroom cloud and bore the logo "It's Miller time!"
#7
"These guys bluster so much, how are we supposed to separate truth from hyperbole and know when they are serious?"
One thing I don't think we've figured out yet, is that you can't win against these jackasses just by beating them on the battlefield; to win, you have to make them STFU. And that, in turn, means (unfortunately for our Westernized sensibilities) killing a shitload of them.
Faster, please...
Posted by: Dave D. ||
05/30/2004 17:12 Comments ||
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#8
Having a putative government that spends billions on building nuclear weapons while letting their own citizens die by the thousands in substandard mud huts as they are laid low by earthquakes that would have killed a hundred elsewhere seems more like an actual form of "divine wrath" to me.
Living under totaliarian rule in a society that has changed very little in the last 500 years and being subject to the knout, the chopping block and death squads seems more like an actual form of "divine wrath" to me.
Finally, when over half of your population is subject to honor killings arbitrary murder, sexual assault, routine violent abuse, enforced illiteracy and what amounts to perpetual house arrest, that certainly seems more like an actual form of "divine wrath" to me.
Besides, our wrath could make mincemeat out of their wrath before the devil can get his shoes on.
#9
Slightly OT;
RWV, Where can I get one of those ball caps.
Jack Bross
Posted by: Jack Bross ||
05/30/2004 17:31 Comments ||
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#10
Don't know, Jack. I lost mine a couple moves ago. Actually I think my wife gave it to Goodwill. There are probably a few SAC guys out there who still have theirs and might be able to help. I suspect though, it's like the patch we had that proclaimed "Southeast Asian War Games - 2nd Place" you had to be there to appreciate the humor.
#11
#1 Calling this brownshirt a "military chief" is wrong in so many ways. It also makes me laugh because many of Iran's top military commanders aren't even Moslems, they are Zoarastrians.
Different god, different smiting.
If they are Zoarastrians I'll bet they are awfully quite ones. Some how I don't think being a non Muslim in Mullahland is agood way not to attract attention
#12
I know some Zoroastrian Iranians (one of my college professors and a coworker) - I don't see them fitting in well in a "loyal to the mullahs" army. Too many worries on where their loyalty would lie when it comes time to put the bayonet to the civil dissent
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/30/2004 19:49 Comments ||
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#13
`The majority of Iran's population is said to be born after 1979, thus all these years of radical Shi'ite Muslim neo-slavery has produced an Iranian generation more than willing to overthown the mullahs ...if outside assistance is there.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/30/2004 20:39 Comments ||
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A helicopter carrying a provincial governor and three of his aides from the site of an earthquake crashed in the mountains of northern Iran Saturday, killing all aboard, official Tehran television reported. It said the governor of Qazvin province was in the helicopter with three aides and a journalist working for Iran's state-run television. The report did not identify the officials by name, but the governor of Qazvin is Masoud Emami. The report also did not say how many pilots or crew were on board. Officials could not be immediately reached for more details.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 1:52:36 AM ||
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I blame the UAVs UFOs.
Posted by: ed ||
05/30/2004 2:17 Comments ||
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#2
Holy smoke, I'm really going to lose a lot of sleep over this tonight.
Posted by: Infidel Bob ||
05/30/2004 8:10 Comments ||
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#6
Let's face it, there's a certain appropriate parity going on here.
If Iran is so hell bent on spending billions to obtain nuclear weaponry that they willingly countenance lax civil construction codes which permit tens of thousands of Iranian people to die in earthquakes that kill a few hundred elsewhere, what is going to stop them from neglecting proper inspection and maintenance schedules for their rotary wing airframes?
Perhaps Iran's politicians should begin paying closer attention to more equitable spending in the civilian quarter. It appears as though their own lives may depend upon it. How f&%king ironic.
Nick Berg, an American from Philadelphia, was kidnapped and tortuously beheaded by Arabs in Iraq sometime in May. The murderers filmed the deed and proudly displayed the victim's severed head. After killing six Israeli soldiers in an attack on an armored vehicle in Gaza on May 11, the Arabs near the scene of the carnage gleefully held aloft human body parts in front of rolling cameras. One of the Arab terrorists was later interviewed on film with what appeared to be a human head in front of him. The week before, after shooting at Tali Hatuel's car, causing it to skid and stop, Arab terrorists walked over to the vehicle to finish the occupants off. They looked at the heavily pregnant mother and her four no-doubt frightened girls; the youngest was two years old. And then shot them all. At point-blank range. With sadistic satisfaction, they systematically murdered Tali Hatuel and her unborn son, as well as all of Tali's daughters - Hila, age 11, Hadar, 9, Roni, 7, and two-year-old Meirav. In Fallujah in March, crowds of townspeople dragged four American civilians out of their vehicles, shot or beat them to death, mutilated their bodies, dragged them through the streets, suspended them from a bridge and burned them. And they danced and cheered. With their children.
In Ramallah in 2000, two Israeli soldiers were kidnapped, beaten, stabbed countless times, had their eyes gouged out, and were literally disemboweled and dismembered by an Arab lynch mob. The people - and I use the term loosely - who carried out the initial beatings threw one of the victims down to the waiting mob, where his face was further crushed with stones, feet, fists and even a heavy metal window frame. One Jew was set on fire and dragged along the street as Arab onlookers danced and cheered. Some of the butchers celebrated their crimes with the victims' internal organs. One of the killers, famously captured on film, proudly displayed his blood-soaked hands to the cheering Ramallah crowd. And it gets worse. In 2003, nearly two years later, Arab parents in Gaza cheered again when their little children dressed up as members of the Ramallah lynch mob, complete with hands painted blood red, for a kindergarten graduation ceremony.
According to a report by Dr. Michael Widlanski, an Israeli Arabic expert, the Voice of Palestine called the attack on the Hatuel girls "an act of heroic martyrdom". The targeted children and their mother, the PA radio reported only as "five settlers". Among the participants at the funerals of the Hatuel family members was President of Israel Moshe Katzav. He said, "This day of blood will be engraved in our history. An earthquake has happened. No one in the world can stand apathetically by in the face of these acts by such evil people. Where are those who speak in the name of Allah?" National Review contributing editor David Frum posed the same question in his May 12 "Diary" on NRO: "Where are the imams?" he asked.
Some of "those who speak in the name of Allah," Mr. President, were busy sawing Nick Berg's head from his body in Iraq. "Allah is great!" they shouted in triumphal glee as they killed their bound and helpless victim. The imams are in the mosques, Mr. Frum, waving swords and exhorting their followers to behead a Jew: "Allah willing, we will cut off his head! Oh Jews! Allah is great! Allah is great!" They are also in Saudi Arabian palaces, telling their subjects that they are 95% certain Zionists are behind Islamist terrorism. They are also writing for the Arab media, explaining that Jews are behind all the evil in the world. And they are even organizing soccer matches, Mr. President, honoring mass murderers. This is the enemy. Don't look away.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 11:03:09 AM ||
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#1
Absolutely true for Israel and probably true for the West. At some point in the not to distant future, the jihadists may get what they desire, a religious war, and something they didn't expect, universal jihadi matyrdom.
#3
Israel needs to build huge walls and moats and shit to keep these scum away from them,perhaps put huge catapilar tracks on the wall segments so the wall can expand at a geographical point nearest to where the last Palo terror act was comitted,give it a year or two and Israel would gain alot of land.
Posted by: Shep UK ||
05/30/2004 12:14 Comments ||
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#4
I'm tellin' you.....we must kill every muslim that walks the face of the earth. islam = nazi = satan
Posted by: Halfass Pete ||
05/30/2004 12:29 Comments ||
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HP -- sounds a little excessive, but i understand where you're coming from.
how do you post a picture here? forgive the ignorance, i'm new here. i've got a good scanned article of one of general pershing's methods of dealing with muslim extremists.
#7
Nada, please clear a pic with Fred before posting -- eats up bandwidth in a major way.
Also, anyone who hasn't hit the tip jar in a while, bandwidth costs money.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/30/2004 14:04 Comments ||
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The Kurds are mostly Sufi Muslims. Many Indians and Banglas are Sufi Muslims. Ismailis are Muslims, even though Qazi would like to kill them all. The Ahmadis are Muslims, even though Qazi's determined to kill them all. Not all Shiites are theocratic nutbags. Not even all Sunnis are kill-all-infidels nutbags; Sufism is a sect of the Sunni school. Tunisia is Muslim, but it's a secular state, as is Turkey. Morocco is Muslim, but is still trying to modernize. Even Libya, for all Muammar's nuttiness, isn't on the side of the Bad Guys, at least not in this conflict.
Unlike them, I don't believe in the kill-em-all philosophy, even though I'm in favor of killing large numbers of Wahhabis, Deobandis, and other trash. But not even all of them. I don't believe in killing women and kiddies. And Kuwait and the UAE are chock full of people who take their religion seriously but still somehow never go out and kill infidels.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 14:45 Comments ||
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Arab parents in Gaza cheered again when their little children dressed up as members of the Ramallah lynch mob, complete with hands painted blood red, for a kindergarten graduation ceremony.
It's a well known fact that each successive generation tends to outdo the preceding one.
I wonder how these ghoulish Palestinian parents will feel when their fully indoctrinated youngsters begin murdering them as backsliders for not wanting worldwide jihad instead of just the usual killing of all Jews.
They will deserve it in spades. As in the ones that dig their own graves.
Posted by: Infidel Bob ||
05/30/2004 15:00 Comments ||
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That was a very nice, and thoughtful post, Fred. Where to draw the line? That is the question, or, maybe better put...How to draw this line to isolate one set from another?
#12
I knew some very nice Iranians in the 70's but I think most of them were killed by Khomeni and his thugs. Hopefully this new generation can overthrow the mullahs before the mullahs call down the fire that will bring an end to the Iranian people and leave Iran a barren wasteland for the next thousand years.
The immediate problem is not muslims in general, but the excessively inbred, totally irrational. fanatical muslims of the middle east and their enablers. I don't know enough Iraqis to make a judgement, but the only other muslims from that part of the world worth saving are the Morrocans and the Jordanians. Although Turkey is a muslim country, they've been rigorously secular for long enough that they are good people, almost modern and rational. By process of elimination, that means that the muslims of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain, et. al. can go straight to Hell without passing go.
#14
nada: althought the sentiment may be admirable and provide a measure of satisfaction, please don't disseminate a tale which has been on the 'top 25 lists' of internet urban rumors: the tale concerning Gen. Pershing's treatment of Moro prisoners. It's nothing more than hoax. This tale has been circulating since 2001, and there is absolutely no evidence for it whatsoever.
Check any of the myths and urban legends websites, like
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_black_jack_pershing.htm
Posted by: BK ||
05/30/2004 19:39 Comments ||
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Until the West confronts the fact of radical Islam being a death cult, some nations will continue appeasing Terrorist Inc.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/30/2004 19:49 Comments ||
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Fuck a buncha hearts and minds..... What's needed is behavior modification. I don't want them to like me. I don't give a damn about them....any of them. I just want them to behave and raise their children to be productive citizens, not cold blooded murderers.
Posted by: Halfass Pete ||
05/30/2004 23:21 Comments ||
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Comeon Halfass, dont hold back now, tell us how you really feel about them....
#18
What if someone you know is kidnapped by an Islamic terrorist group, someone you love with all your hart, someone you love so much that just the mere thought of seen that special person harmed in the slightest makes you tremble, upset, just completely nuts! Lets say, maybe that special person is you beloved son or daughter.
Now, the US Army has in custody a member of the Islamic terrorist group. That member custody knows exactly where your precious little angel is being held. The terrorist group has given the United States 48 hours to release Saddam Hussein or you little angel will be decapitated and the event filmed in full color and sound and sent to your home doorsteps. Just like the beheading video of that poor American shown in TV last month.
What would you do?
Would you tell the U.S. Armyâ¦.
a- Not to make the terrorist feel uncomfortable in any way.
b- Stick to the Geneva Convention rules of interrogation (Same as âaâ above).
c- Vote for John F. Kerry in November 04. (Same as âaâ above)
d- Use whatever method necessary (including severe torture) to make the SOB talk!
Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat offered to meet Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to talk peace, in an interview broadcast Sunday on Channel 10 TV. "I extend my hand to Sharon, to the people, to the Knesset (parliament), to the government of Israel," Arafat said in a rare interview on Israeli television, offering to talk peace. "I am prepared to meet with Sharon," Arafat said. "Why not? If there is a will for peace, it will overcome all other ideas." Arafat added that if Sharon was unwilling to meet with him, he should at least meet with PA Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei (Abu Ala). "Haven't I met him in the past. Peace is not made between friends," Arafat said.
Channel 10 TV interviewed Arafat on Sunday at his office in the West Bank city of Ramallah, where Arafat has been trapped by Israeli troops for more than two years. An edited version of the interview was broadcast Sunday evening. Arafat repeated the pledge that the PA was ready to take over the Gaza Strip following an Israeli withdrawal, on condition that the withdrawal is "real and complete". Arafat charged that the Palestinian Authority is able to stop terrorism, and said his forces have done so in the past. "We have thwarted 34 attacks in the past six weeks," Arafat told Channel 10.
Charging that Arafat is implicated in Palestinian violence, Israel has declared a boycott of the veteran Palestinian leader and tried to sideline him. Last year the Israeli Cabinet declared him an obstacle to peace that must be removed, leading to speculation that Israel would try to exile him or kill him, but no move has been made. In offering talks with the Israelis, Arafat said there is no need "to open a new page, but to implement what has already been agreed on." Asked why he refuses to step aside and allow younger leaders to take the reins of the Palestinian leadership, Arafat replied, "What about Sharon? He is my age. And [Shimon] Peres is older than me. The question is not age, but deeds. I am an elected leader." Arafat complained of the effects of being confined to his office building, saying his doctors recommended that he get more air and exercise. "Imagine that I go out to see people, go outside, I get tears in my eyes," he said. Arafat does not venture past the sandbagged entrance of his office, fearing Israeli snipers.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/30/2004 21:43 ||
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Translation: The intifadah bank-account was a little low this quarter.
Two men were killed when a bomb they were planting by a road north of Baghdad, exploded prematurely, police said today. "We discovered two bodies. They were killed when they tried to plant a home-made bomb on the road in the Baiji area," Lieutenant Colonel Aymad Abdullah al-Obeidi said. US convoys frequently drive along the road running through Baiji, which heads south to Baghdad and north to the city of Kirkuk.
WASHINGTON - American troops in Iraq (news - web sites) died in May at a rate of more than two per day, pushing the combined death count for April and May beyond 200, according to Pentagon (news - web sites) figures.
For the National Guard and Reserve, whose part-time soldiers make up at least one-third of the 135,000 American troops in Iraq, the trend in casualties during May was especially troubling.
At least 22 citizen soldiers died, nearly one-third of all U.S. losses in May. As a percentage of the monthâs death toll, that is about double what it had been in most previous months of the war. It also shows that the Guard and Reserve are bearing an increasing combat load.
Three states â Arkansas, North Carolina and Washington â now have an Army National Guard combat brigade in Iraq. In the next rotation of troops that will begin late this summer, there will be at least three others, and probably a fourth, plus a National Guard division headquarters.
The most persistent killer, more than a year after President Bush declared major combat over, is the homemade roadside bomb. The military calls it an improvised explosive device. This month, they have killed least 19 soldiers, seven of them National Guardsmen.
"Our biggest menace now is the improvised explosive device," Maj. Gen. John Sattler, director of operations for the U.S. Central Command, said in a telephone interview with Pentagon reporters Friday.
He said multiple agencies of the U.S. government are searching for technological solutions, including electronic jammers that can stop the detonation of hidden bombs.
"The laws of physics conspire to keep these things hidden once theyâre emplaced, so unless you figure out through other means where they got put down, youâre in trouble," says Michael OâHanlon, a defense analyst at the Brookings Institution, a Washington think tank.
Months ago the Army sent a team of experts to Iraq to solve the problem, but to little apparent avail.
This kind of bomb took the life of the youngest female soldier to die in Iraq so far â Pfc. Leslie D. Jackson, 18, of Richmond, Va. She was killed in Baghdad on May 20 when her military vehicle was hit.
Others have been killed by snipers and suicide bombers, as well as mortars, rocket-propelled grenades and other weapons. Accidents, including two electrocutions, also have taken a toll.
At least 59 American troops died in May, according to the Pentagonâs published tally. That figure does not include three Marines who died in action Saturday western Iraq.
Their hometowns reach across America. Maple Valley, Wash., Ayden, N.C., and Lisbon, Maine. Chicago, New Orleans and Miami. California and Texas. Vermont and Delaware. Mississippi and Missouri.
May was deadlier than most previous months, but far less so than April, when the death toll was 136. That was by far the highest for any month since U.S. forces invaded in March 2003. The bloody fight for the city of Fallujah raged throughout April but has calmed down in the past few weeks.
In total, the Iraq conflict has taken the lives of more than 800 American troops so far, and last week the Pentagon reported that the number wounded in action is approaching 4,700.
The military says it continues to make progress in stabilizing Iraq, but the steadily rising death toll has become a political burden for a White House that also is focused on re-election.
Especially troubling, OâHanlon says, is the continued reluctance of ordinary Iraqis to throw their support behind the American effort.
The Marine Corps in March stopped reporting the circumstances of its casualties in Iraq, so the actual number of deaths by the homemade bombs this month is likely higher than the 19 reported by the Army.
Among the 22 citizen soldiers killed in May was Staff Sgt. William D. Chaney, of the Illinois Army National Guard. At age 59, he was the oldest soldier to die in Iraq since the invasion began.
Chaney, of Schaumburg, Ill., died May 18 at a U.S. military hospital in Germany of complications following surgery for a noncombat related condition that he developed while in Iraq.
National Guardsmen often are older than their active-duty counterparts, and Mayâs death toll reflects that. A 50-year-old Army Reserve soldier from Shreveport, La., died May 14; a 44-year-old Reserve soldier from Owensboro, Ky., was killed by a suicide car bomber that same day.
Two Vermont National Guard members were killed in a mortar attack May 25. They were the first Guardsmen from that state to be killed in action since at least the Korean War, half a century ago.
A Navy Reserve unit, the Naval Mobile Construction Battalion 14, based in Jacksonville, Fla., suffered extensive losses in May. Five of its men were killed and 28 were wounded in a mortar attack on a Marine base near the city of Ramadi in western Iraq on May 2. Two days earlier, two other members of that unit were killed when their vehicle convoy was hit by a homemade bomb.
One has to question the wisdom of sending Reservists into combat instead of garrisons such as Korea or Europe. Further, the utility of the Reserves as a whole ought to be debated. How much could the existing forces be expanded if the Reserves were all deactivated?
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
05/30/2004 3:06:33 PM ||
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OH DEAR MOTHER OF GOD!!!!!!! LET'S ALL PANIC!!! THE CASUALTY RATE FOR RESERVISTS IS MOUNTING AND NOW IT'S...
...no different than the rest of our troops.
Sorry, but this horseshit article is nothing more than the result of that idiot Robert Burns sitting down with a fifth of Scotch and some statistics tables and weaving a slyly worded, but otherwise vacuous, tale of woe for no other purpose than to cause people to lose heart (and vote for John Kerry, of course, because we're in a really terrible fix and it's all Bush's fault).
"One has to question the wisdom of sending Reservists into combat..."
No, one does not. What one has to do is refrain from getting hoodwinked by dishonest journalists operating on hidden agendas. Our reservists are doing the job they were sent over there for and they're doing it quite well, thank you.
Instead of getting taken in by Robert Burns' contrived, manipulative hand-wringing, consider these for perspective:
Q: How many months worth of U.S. highway fatalities are represented by the casualties in Operation Iraqi Freedom to date?
A: 6.7 days worth.
Q: At the present casualty rate, how much longer will it be before the number of Americans killed in OIF equals the number killed in Vietnam?
A: Another 73 years; unless you're very young, it sure as hell isn't going to happen in your lifetime.
Q: How much longer before our casualties equal those of World War 2?
A: Adjusting for the difference in U.S. population between then and now (132 million v. 290 million), it'll take another one thousand, one hundred years.
"Especially troubling, OâHanlon says, is the continued reluctance of ordinary Iraqis to throw their support behind the American effort."
And the single most important reason for that, is that they're worried we might lose our nerve and abandon them.
The best thing we can do right now to avoid failure, is to quit worrying about failure. Time to buck up.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
05/30/2004 16:12 Comments ||
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#3
Dave, good post but this is how the Times would spin it:
"War in Iraq Distracts Bush from Controlling Highway Traffic Deaths"
"Casualties in Iraq Approach Those in Vietnam, WWII"
The flippin' Book Review section today had a full-page article on global warming books including a reference to the Kyoto treaty , "which President Bush has rejected anyway." (As I recall it was a 95-0 vote of the US Senate during King William's reign that rejected it.)
Posted by: Matt ||
05/30/2004 20:26 Comments ||
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"War in Iraq Distracts Bush from Controlling Highway Traffic Deaths"
Too bad there wasn't a Food/Drink Alert on that one- damn near choked on a Fig Newton when I grokked it.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
05/30/2004 20:37 Comments ||
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#5
Dave, may I ask how your son is doing?
Posted by: Matt ||
05/30/2004 20:53 Comments ||
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#6
Thanks for asking. He's doing OK; it's pretty quiet down where he is, and they stick pretty close to the base.
A few weeks back he went with a bunch of the guys on a joyride to the port at Umm Qasr. This is him, in the middle:
Not a clue who the two Iraqi dudes are, he says they just wanted their pictures taken with every GI they could find and chattered like magpies. The people were friendly, and a great time was had by all.
Big thing right now is the heat: he wrote to me on Wednesday, saying that at 9:00 a.m. it had reached 100 degrees; at noon it was 125; and the forecast high for the day was 140. He says that when there's a wind, it feels just like standing behind an idling jet engine.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
05/30/2004 21:06 Comments ||
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#7
Ditto on the Food/Drink Alert. LOL
the utility of the Reserves as a whole ought to be debated. How much could the existing forces be expanded if the Reserves were all deactivated?
Two quick responses to that. First, please folks - ditch the assumption that we could easily and quickly expand the active duty forces. Or rather, that we could do so with good results.
This isn't WWII. Today's soldiers require, and get, extensive training to make good use of the technology and doctrine we give them. That takes time, money and experienced trainers - not something one develops overnight. Do we pull top NCOs out of duty in Iraq to train new recruits, leaving their units without their leadership and experience? NCOs are the backbone of our services - this, to a far greater degree than in many other countries, and to our great benefit. You can't clone them quickly ...
Moreover, there are sound reasons for having a Reserve. One is that when you need them unexpectedly - say, if terrorists declare war on you - they're there and can be called up for service quickly. The other is, at least in my mind, the value in a democracy of having many citizens not only trained for military service, but connected to the defense of our country and our society.
#8
ditto too RKB - also think there's a value when the military's made up not just of professional soldiers (hey, not arguing against the volunteer force - put down the pitchforks and torches!), but also of our civilian friends, coworkers and neighbors who voluntarily joined the Reserve. It keeps a trained resource that we wouldn't want to have every year...
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/30/2004 21:22 Comments ||
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#9
What a total crock of s++t this article is. So it turns out that our troops' death toll in May was 1/2 that in April. So in order to put a bad spin on the story, the hack journalist (Burns) adds the two months together so he can avoiding stating that our losses actually fell. This type of dreck is worthy of the NYTimes. Also, it's about time that the Army/Marines stop giving details on how the Muslims are killing our troops. It just confirms for them what works and what doesn't.
Afghan insurgents have claimed responsibility for the killing of four U.S. troops in southeastern Afghanistan. The U.S. military reported in a press statement that the four deaths took place Saturday in Afghanistanâs Zabul province. The statement identified the dead as members of a Special Operations Task Force, but did not give further details. The incident marks one of the largest one-day death tolls, since the end of the U.S.-led war that ousted Afghanistanâs hard-line Taleban rulers.
A commander with the Taleban, remnants of which are leading an anti-government insurgency in the south and east of the country, claimed responsibility for Saturdayâs attack. The commander said his fighters used rocket-propelled grenades to destroy two U.S. tanks north of the provincial capital of Qalat, and that the Taleban suffered no casualties in the engagement. News of the engagement comes as Afghan officials reported fighting between government and Taleban forces in the southern province of Helmand. The officials say fighting Saturday night left four government soldiers and one suspected Taleban dead, with a second Taleban fighter captured. United Nations spokesman Manoel de Almeida e Silva told reporters Sunday that the Taleban and others still pose a serious threat to Afghan security. A reliable source, that Silva
"The threats to security continue," he said. "They continue because of the action of what we call the "spoilers," those who oppose this process, those who do not want to see a new Afghanistan." Spoilers, eh? We still call them terrorists.
The spokesman also cited fighting among rival local militias, whose commanders, although allied with the government, are accused of acting as independent warlords, ruling territory under their control as mini-states. He said the situation must improve in order to register voters for the countryâs first post-war elections. They should get motor voter like California. That lets anybody vote as many times as they wish.
The elections, originally slated for next month, have been tentatively postponed for September, due to the security problems.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
05/30/2004 12:27:10 PM ||
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RPGs to the left, RPGs to the right. Train loads of RPGs. I say buy the world supply of RPGs, corner the market.
After a month of continuous combat operations, the 22d Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable) is helping drive a stake into the heart of Taliban and anti-coalition militia activity in south-central Afghanistan. Consisting of its Command Element, Battalion Landing Team 1st Bn., 6th Marines, Marine Medium Helicopter Squadron 266 (Reinforced), and MEU Service Support Group 22, the MEU arrived in Afghanistan in late March, and by mid-April began sending armed forays into the Oruzgan province, in the south-central part of the country.
These missions, dubbed Operations ULYSSES I-V, were reconnaissance patrols to the region around the town of Tarin Kowt, where the MEU would eventually establish Forward Operating Base Ripley, its base of operations. Combat operations began in earnest on April 26 with the commencement of Operation RIO BRAVO, which was immediately followed by EL DORADO on May 10. These operations were designed to disrupt Taliban and anti-coalition militia activity in regions long known to harbor and support these insurgent forces. "This size area [where the MEU operates] is normally assigned to a regiment, or in some cases a brigade," said Lt. Col. Asad A. Khan, commanding officer of BLT 1/6. "Itâs really rugged terrain and the Marines have done all weâve asked and more."
The main focus of these operations was to disrupt the enemyâs line of communications, uncover hidden caches of arms and ammunitions, and seek out and destroy Taliban and ACM forces. By establishing random vehicle check points in the region and conducting âcordon and knockâ operations in the provinceâs towns and villages, the MEU has thus far killed at least five enemy insurgents and taken 14 into custody. To date, the MEU has conducted 156 patrols, 70 cordon and search operations, begun or planned more than 80 civil affairs projects, searched more than 3,700 vehicles, and uncovered at least 37 arms caches.
These discoveries have led to the confiscation of approx. 160 rifles of various make, 10 heavy machine guns, 23 rocket-propelled grenade launchers, nearly 19,000 rounds of ammunition, and 1,500 pieces of ordnance or explosives, including grenades, mines, rocket-propelled grenades, explosive devices, rockets, mortar rounds, and bomb-making materials. "This is all stuff that would have eventually been used against American or coalition forces," said Christmas. "By keeping it out of their hands, weâve dealt them [Taliban and ACM] a major blow."
However, these successes have not been without cost. Five Marines have been wounded in clashes with the enemy, and Cpl. Ronald R. Payne Jr., of Lakeland, Florida, was killed in a firefight May 8 near the village of Sahmardun Ghar. On May 12, BLT 1/6âs forward base of operations was renamed FOB Payne in honor of the 23-year-old light armored vehicle scout.
Other operations have included security operations for United Nations voter registration efforts and undertaking civil affairs projects including an aggressive campaign of providing medical and dental assistance to needy Afghan locals throughout the Oruzgan province. More than 340 Afghan people were seen and treated during medical and dental projects by the MEU. "The proof of our success is that the villagers are starting to return to their homes," continued Khan, commenting on the Taliban practice of forcing villagers to leave their homes so they could be used for nefarious purposes. "Theyâre starting to trust us, and come to us with their problems."
According to Khan, the villagersâ openness is indicative that the Taliban and ACM are losing their credibility among the rural populace who for years have provided the insurgents with their base of power. In addition to the combat operations, civil military operations such as well-digging projects and the construction of bases is employing local labor, further boosting pro-U.S. and Afghan government sentiment. "We have never seen Americans work like this," said one village elder from a village near FOB Payne. "You are all over the place and willing to live with us. You are protecting us from the Taliban and the others. You are willing to help us."
The MEU is designated Task Force Linebacker and is continuing its operations. In time, the MEU will leave FOB Ripley where an Army Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT) and coalition forces will continue to support Afghanistanâs quest for stability.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
05/30/2004 11:30:41 AM ||
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The Israeli military said its air force carried out the strike, aimed at "two senior Hamas commanders who were responsible for many attacks against Israelis, including suicide bombings, and were planning further attacks." Witnesses said they saw a bolt of lighning a flash in the sky before the motorcycle exploded. Outside the hospital morgue, angry Palestinians, most of them Hamas supporters, chanted "Update the leadership whiteboard." "God is great." Amplified statements from local mosques mourned Nassar, one of the founders of the Hamas military wing, called Izzedine al-Qassam. Nassar planned many Hamas attacks against Israelis, Palestinians said. Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zohri accused Israel of taking out the trash a "cowardly assassination crime," part of Israelâs new Hamas jobs program "bloody escalation" against the Palestinians.
Posted by: Anonymous ||
05/30/2004 6:10:34 AM ||
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Ululululululululu!
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/30/2004 10:19 Comments ||
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"Update the leadership whiteboard."
LOL - pretty good post Anonymous!
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/30/2004 10:58 Comments ||
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#3
Doesn't look like a promising career but then the Paleos are slow learners.
#4
Hamas must be getting soft - where are the pledges of 'Dire Revenge' (tm).
Posted by: A Jacskon ||
05/30/2004 12:26 Comments ||
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#5
Hamas must be getting soft - where are the pledges of 'Dire Revenge' (tm).
I think it's the Israelis that have been subscribing to that pledge lately. Sure does seem like a lot of Hamas boys are singing in Himmler's Choir now, doesn't it?
"Update the leadership whiteboard" is a great line, Anon. I'm going to remember to use that one myself in the future!
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/30/2004 14:00 Comments ||
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#6
So if it was a motorcycle how are the Paleo's going to have a decent car swarm?
And with-out a car body to contain the flying meat how is a good Paleo supposed to take his celebritory blood bath?
Damn them Joows sure know how to ruin a good excuse for a party!
Iâve been waiting for this to come on the table. If the Paleos want their own state then its logical that all Arab paleos live in it. Expect major seething etc. from the UN.
Transportation Minister Avigdor Lieberman presented to Russian officials Sunday his plan to separate Jews from Arabs, describing it as an alternative to Prime Minister Ariel Sharonâs plan to evacuate the Gaza Strip and parts of the West Bank. Lieberman, chairman of the rightist National Union party and an immigrant from the former Soviet Union, met with Alexander Galkin, Putinâs personal representative in the Quartet for Mideast peace, and Russian ambassador to Israel Gennady Tarasov in Israel over the weekend. Liebermanâs plan, called the Plan for the Separation of Nations, is based on the idea of separating the populations and territories of Jews and Arabs, including Israeli Arabs. According to the plan, only those Israeli Arabs who feel a connection with the State of Israel and are completely loyalty to it will be allowed to stay.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/30/2004 9:51:27 AM ||
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The Russians are good people to approach. They learned much in the 50's and 60's about bottling people up and building walls.
From The New York Times
Hundreds of Iraqi prisoners were held in Abu Ghraib prison for prolonged periods despite a lack of evidence that they posed a security threat to American forces, according to an Army report completed last fall. The unpublished report, by Maj. Gen. Donald J. Ryder, reflects what other senior Army officers have described as a deep concern among some American officers and officials in Iraq over the refusal of top American commanders in Baghdad to authorize the release of so-called security prisoners. .... General Ryder, the Armyâs provost marshal, reported that some Iraqis had been held for several months for nothing more than expressing "displeasure or ill will" toward the American occupying forces. The Nov. 5 report said the process for deciding which arrested Iraqis posed security risks justifying imprisonment, and for deciding when to release them, violated the Pentagonâs own policies. It also said the conditions in which they were held sometimes violated the Geneva Conventions. ....
General Ryderâs report .... warned that the continuing influx of prisoners being arrested as the American-led occupation forces fought a persistent insurrection would strain the system set up to review each case every six months, as required by international law. ....
In interviews, senior Army officers have described senior officers on General Sanchezâs staff as having been the major obstacle to releasing prisoners from Abu Ghraib. The officers have said in particular that Brig. Gen. Barbara Fast, the top Army intelligence officer in Iraq, often ruled last fall against the release of prisoners, even against the recommendation of a military police commander and military intelligence officers at the prison. ....
Tensions between American officials at the prison, including Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, and senior American officers in Baghdad, including General Fast, over the release of prisoners from Abu Ghraib last fall were first described publicly in the investigative report into the abuses by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba, which emerged last month. That report described General Fast, who headed a three-member detainee release board, as sometimes vetoing recommendations to release prisoners that were made by General Karpinski, then the commander in charge at Abu Ghraib, and Col. Marc Warren, a top legal officer on General Sanchezâs staff. ....
A confidential report in February by the International Committee of the Red Cross said that "military intelligence officers told the I.C.R.C. that in their estimate between 70 percent and 90 percent of the persons deprived of their liberty in Iraq had been arrested by mistake." ....
In interviews since, a senior Army officer who served in Iraq criticized as overly cumbersome a process in which the Iraqi prisoners labeled as security detainees, as opposed to common criminals, could be freed only by the release board. In one incident described in detail by the senior Army officer, an aggressive roundup in September brought 57 Iraqis into custody. But a review by military intelligence officers at Abu Ghraib determined that only two had intelligence value and that the rest should be freed. An American general at the headquarters in Baghdad overruled that decision, and dictated that all 57 Iraqis be kept in custody. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/30/2004 5:25:32 AM ||
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I'm sorry, but I just don't believe anything I read in the NYT and I believe the WaPo even less, if that's possible.
Please comment, MS, or it's just like going to the NYT website!
We know this needs Fisking, so why don't you?
Posted by: Jen ||
05/30/2004 7:50 Comments ||
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The NYT is doing an "Augusta" on this story...and in the end it'll matter just about as much as that one did.
A backgrounder from the Friday Times published in 2000..
In January this year the Binori Town mosque in Karachi made national and international headlines when Maulana Masud Azhar made his appearance there before the media and declared war on both India and the United States. Azhar was one of the three prisoners the hijackers of an Indian Airlines plane got released as quid pro quo for releasing the hostages. In the past few years, Binori mosque, which also houses the second biggest seminary in Pakistan, has emerged as one of the most respected seminaries in the Islamic world. But its fame, or as some would call notoriety, is not owed merely to the Islamic syllabi taught here. The madrassah also teaches "jihad" to its students and its seminarians regularly go to Afghanistan to train in the art of warfare. A large percentage of the Talibanâs upper-crust leadership has been students of Binori mosque. Azhar, who appeared before the media after his release, is also one of the students of Binori mosque and like thousands of other students was taught jihad here. His teacher is Maulana Shamzai, who is titled Muftiuzzaman and is also accepted as the spiritual leader and mentor by Mullah Omar of the Taliban, the Amirul Momineen of the movement. The Binori mosque was surrounded by young men bristling with automatic weapons during Azharâs stay there. Azhar, whose rhetoric has now finally been put down by the government after the US State Department took note of his threats, left the mosque after a few days and now heads an organisation called Jaish e Muhammad. The Jaish has the blessings of Shamzai. Who was also a signatory of the so-called Supreme Council of Global Jihad.
Binori mosque, which provided the leadership to the Taliban was founded by Allama Yusuf Binori and Maulana Mufti Mahmood. The latter was the head of Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (JUI), one of whose factions is now headed by Maulana Fazlur Rehman. Today, the sprawling marble mosque is run by a trust established by Allama Binori, though a major source of income is through domestic and foreign funding. The seminary has many foreign students and has a strength of about 8,000 students. Teachers at the mosque told TFT the seminary has been spreading Deobandi-Sunni ideology from its inception. A student from Sudan says while the mosque was initially small, in the last three decades it has turned into the most important Deobandi-Sunni seminary.
Today, the mosque attracts students and funds from over 50 countries, including the Philippines, the United States, and Britain. Most of the funds come from individuals and various businesses. "Rich and poor both give us money out of their love from Islam," says Mufti Shamzai. Binoriâs colour completely changed since the rise of the Taliban militia. Officials confirm the mosque has often been used by sectarian outfits as a "safe haven". TFT has learnt the administration has always avoided entering the mosque premises. The administrators deny any linkage with the sectarian outfits but concede that it is possible that some people might have hid there without their knowledge. "However, it is not our policy to give shelter to such people or promote disunity among Muslims," says one of the mosque officials. Which is nonsense, of course. Given the nature of the attack, it is probably the Shiaâs that wacked Shamzai. Although in 2001, one of the other leaders of Binori were assasinated by followers of a different Sunni sect, so they are not short of enemies.
Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai was the brain behind the Taliban movement and is still the most respected figure. While the Binori mosque administrators deny they indulge in Pakistanâs politics, they do concede that they provide the young cadre for the JUI. "We only teach religious subjects. We do not impart military training. But once they go for jihad to Afghanistan they are given such training by the jihadi forces," says Shamzai. The importance of Binori mosque can be judged from the fact that any scholar from the mosque visiting Afghanistan is treated as a "state guest". When in November 1997 two scholars of the mosque were assassinated in Karachi, Mullah Omar personally expressed his grief over their deaths. Leaders from Afghanistanâs Taliban militia frequently visit the mosque and its madrassah. Interestingly, official sources say hundreds of foreign jihadis took shelter in the mosque when Ms Benazir Bhuttoâs government launched the drive to expel them from Pakistan. Most of these people have refused to return to their native countries after the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan. The government was under pressure from countries like Egypt, Syria and Jordan to send these people back since most of them belong to Islamist organisations that have been banned in these countries on the charge of indulging in "terrorist activities." If Karachi is the center of global terrorism, Binori serves as ground zero, churning out thousands of high quality Mujahideen, who go on to take leadership positions in Jihadi groups. Itâs graduates have included the leaders of the Taliban, Jaish-e-Mohammad, Sipah-e-Sahaba and Harkat ul Jihad Islami. Itâs biggest competetion probably comes from the Lashkar, which is a seperate problem, consisting of Wahabis rather than Deobandis.
Mufti Shamazi is not worried about the governmentâs recent move to crack down on the seminaries across the country. "We donât keep arms; we only teach jihad and no one can stop us from religious teaching," he says. But intelligence sources confirm that thousands of mujahideen who fought in Afghanistan have now become a part of the Islamist network and use Afghanistan as a base. Some of them have been involved in sectarian strife while others call themselves "jihadi". Many of them are former students of Binori Town mosque, who are the Taliban of Pakistan. Their leader, Mufti Shamzai is the Mullah Omar of Pakistan. Shamzai foresees an uprising of the forces of jihad throughout the world against repression. "I am proud that people are participating in the jihad against the enemies of Islam. They come from different countries but all of them have the same goal - and they are all students of this great institution," Shamzai told TFT. Incidently, Shamzai was part of the team of Scholars who accompanied the leader of the ISI in a trip to Afghanistan to convince Mullah Omar to hand over Osama Bin Ladin, of course they did the opposite, telling Omar to fight on. He is one of the most important players in the Military-Mullah axis, since he recruits the cannon fodder that the Generals have thrown at Afghanistan and Kashmir. If you really want to find some high value terrorists, Binori might be a better target than Waziristan.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
05/30/2004 4:18:06 AM ||
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Isn't it about time for some disgruntled "splinter group" to park a truck bomb outside the Binori mosque and gave it a taste of "Oklahoma City" style hospitality? These sick f&%ks will continue to churn out death brigades until Perv gets capped and then we'll face the possibility a nuclear armed Islamic state. If Perv lacks the nerve to shut down these murder machines, then it's time for covert operations. These morons have essentially declared war upon America, shouldn't we give them their wish?
I'm hoping that America still has contingency plans in place for appropriating Pakistan's nuclear weapons in the event of Perv's overthrow.
#2
If Musharraf is killed, he will just be replaced by some other mustachioed, 'moderate' General with a firm grasp of English and an overinflated sense of what Pakistan's role on the region should be.
And if that General is assasinated, he will be succeded by another, and so on. One thing that Pakistan has a lot of is Generals. Even the so-called Islamist Generals (who were the ones that brought Musharraf to power in the first place) are far too concerned with maintaining their feudal lord lifestyles to bother with any nuclear holocaust, as Qazi said the other day, it's all just talk.
Trouble will come only when the number of Generals in Pakistan exceeds the amount of land that can be appropriated for them when they retire, and the number of industries that will be given to them to run. Then there will be some serious unpleasantness, with the Islamists likely playing some sort of role.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
05/30/2004 5:10 Comments ||
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If Iran considered the Binori Town Mosque a serious threat, it would have been gone a long time ago, sitting as it does in the middle of the Shia portion of Karachi. Anyone arguing for complicity between Shia terrorists and Sunni terrorists can't point to a better example, the fact that the Shia haven't flattened the place yet. The enemy of my enemy...
BAGHDAD â Iraqi Prime Minister-designate Iyad Allawi plans to recall four divisions of Saddam Husseinâs old army â a move that would mark the most significant reversal of U.S. occupation policy to date. Mr. Allawi also said he intended to create a rapid-reaction force and anti-terrorism unit to deal with the countryâs security crisis â which is widely attributed to the U.S. decision to dismiss more than 300,000 soldiers following the fall of Baghdad. "I would like to see the reconstitution of three to four divisions of the Iraqi army from midlevel officers to junior ranks," he said in an interview. "I am only talking about the regular army here, not the Republican Guard." Under Saddam, each of 23 regular Iraqi army divisions had about 10,000 men. "I also want to see the formation of a rapid-deployment force and an anti-terrorism outfit on intelligence and operational levels as well as an improved general intelligence operation," Mr. Allawi said. "Security and the economy are our biggest challenges. We have to beef up our security assets â the police, military, intelligence and army," Mr. Allawi said.
He spoke in his offices in the former Baâath Party training college that now serves as the headquarters the Iraqi National Accord (INA), a political party he founded in exile more than a decade ago. The U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council unanimously nominated Mr. Allawi to be prime minister in a new government to take power on June 30. The Bush administration, the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority and U.N. Special Envoy Lakhdar Brahimi have publicly accepted the choice. Although the emergence of the British-trained physician as the caretaker leader for the next six months took many Iraqis by surprise, he was already preparing to take over the reins when he spoke about his plans.
Mr. Allawi, 58, returned to Baghdad last year after more than 30 years in exile. When he was asked about the prospect of becoming the first head of government of a post-Saddam Iraq, a grin spread across his face. "To be frank, that would make me very proud," he said in excellent English as he sat back in a black leather armchair. His new position arguably makes him the top target for insurgents such as those who assassinated the head of the outgoing Iraqi Governing Council two weeks ago. But Mr. Allawi is used to living under threat â he survived an assassination attempt by ax-wielding Saddam henchmen in London â and aides say that he is unperturbed. As he held meetings in the heavily fortified Green Zone yesterday to help choose the rest of the new government, including a president and two deputy presidents, several mortar bombs landed in the street, a reminder that nowhere in Iraq is safe. The INA still draws heavily on former Iraqi military and intelligence officers, and Mr. Allawi believes the decisions last year to disband the old army en masse and introduce a rigid de-Baâathification policy contributed significantly to the collapse in law and order. As the man who will run the interim government until elections in January, he wants the policy reversed.
Up to half of former Iraqi army officers would be willing to return to service if asked, he said. He also would draw on former special forces troops, the tribes, the political parties and the Kurdish militia for the new forces. Mr. Allawi was diplomatic on the contentious issues of how long coalition forces should remain in Iraq and the chain of command after June 30. "Iraq has to have a presence within the command structure, but the details need to be discussed," he said. "We need a partnership with the U.S. and Europe for the sake of peace, stability and progress in the region as a whole." Another ressurection of the old order that can hardly be reassuring for the Iraqi people. Saddamâs previous troops have all the exact wrong training (i.e., graft, bribery, etc.) to be put in place once again. It would be like hiring all the old police force.
Posted by: Zenster ||
05/30/2004 3:00:37 AM ||
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I think it is the right thing to do. Law and order is a pre-requisite for a stable country.
#2
No Zen, the regular Iraqi army wasn't so bad, particularly the rankers. The officers, particularly the higher ones, were notoriously corrupt, and I'm assuming (hoping?) that Allawi would have the new force vetted pretty thoroughly. And that we/Brits/coalition allies would have some substantial role in training this new force.
I agree with Phil B in that law and order is a pre-requisite. The Rumsfeld idea of building a new Iraqi army, free of all the old taints, is fine and I'd go for that in a perfect situation, but the situation isn't perfect now. If Allawi can see clear to put together a force that can work with us, the ICDC, Border Police, etc., and deal with security, good for now. They can always weed out the ones who don't belong later.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/30/2004 3:33 Comments ||
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I'm with Phil and Steve--this a good, smart thing to do.
(Most of the members of Saddam's army swore allegiance to the Baathist Party because Saddam forced them to...or else.)
In that these guys are going to be in charge of their country's internal security in a month's time, they need to have a force that's ready to uphold the rule of Law and have some idea how to do it when it becomes an Iraq for the Iraqis.
If the Iraqi people have a problem with it, better to float this plan now while the US is still in complete charge, then after the handover.
Posted by: Jen ||
05/30/2004 3:58 Comments ||
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It is impossible to go from Islamic tyranny to democracy. However, democracy usually follows dictatorship. The Wahabis and Khomenists of Iraq can go to hell, and I could care less who sends them there.
#5
This is a positive move. Many of the lower ranks have been unemployed since the de-baat process began. The lower ranks that are targeted were threatened by the Saddam intelligence apparatus. They need to be kept busy and working on behalf of the new Iraq post haste.
Posted by: Mike Wiley ||
05/30/2004 4:05 Comments ||
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While I shall grudgingly concur that, should America complete the hand-off in another month's time, these troops will be needed. I do not think that either of these moves are the smartest thing.
Employment for the disused soldiers is good, but it might be better if they were focused on infrastructure rebuild. I've seen far too much go wrong whenever we place weapons into the hands of most post-war Iraqis.
#7
wrong training (i.e., graft, bribery, etc.) Zenster, you have led a sheltered life. Bribes are normal in most places and if that is the worst that happens in Iraq, then things are going very well.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/30/2004 6:48 Comments ||
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"It is impossible to go from Islamic tyranny to democracy."
Thank you so much.
[insert John Cleese routine here]
So many experts, so little time.
#10
You mean on BSDNC?
Always the first to report bad news for America and Bush, right?
OK, maybe 100 guys got cold feet, but we're talking about thousands of men here and Najaf will settle down again, just like Fallujah.
Posted by: Jen ||
05/30/2004 9:39 Comments ||
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There is a subtle maneuver going on here. In Iraq, everyone is used to centralized planning, and the *expectation* is that you give loyalty to your employer, because you owe him for your job--your job was a 'payoff' to you in the first place.
For this reason, the US does NOT wish to start any massive employment programs--it wants the new Iraqi government to "create the jobs", so the people will appreciate their government.
In this circumstance, the US wants the Iraqis to "create" their own army, most likely followed by "creating" their own bureaucracy and "creating" lots of civilian jobs.
Actually, a very good strategy for stability.
#12
Zenster, you have led a sheltered life. Bribes are normal in most places and if that is the worst that happens in Iraq, then things are going very well.
I am obliged to disagree with you Phil B. Lack of transparancy in government is one of the hallmarks of malfeasance. If we permit all of these same bad-old-ways to once more flourish in Iraq, we'll have done them a tremendous disservice. I am well enough aware of how embedded the notion of baksheesh is in Middle Eastern socities.
I just happen to believe that if the Iraqi people as a whole witness America propping up the same sort of bloodsucking bunch of grafters masquerading as government, they'll have even fewer compunctions about voting in a bunch of rigid theocrats to restore "order." One need only examine the Taleban in Afghanistan for a solid object lesson.
#13
Hard choices and none of them are perfect. However, Allawi's plan is good, if only because I don't want to have our GI's babysitting Iraq forever and taking bullets indefinitely to preserve Iraqi peoples' freedoms. If we don't feel comfortable about Allawi's plan to re-employ Iraqi soldiers, then who do we use instead? Does re-instituting the draft so young Americans can die "winning hearts and minds" 50 years years from now sound better?
I care 2 hoots whether Iraqis feel "comfortable" with former Republican Guard soldiers ensuring law and order and protecting their sovereignity. Maybe a little fear and old memories in the hearts and minds of Iraqis, who have thusfar sat on their hands when unlawful combatants live in their midst, might not be such a bad thing to motivate the silent majority to become "more forthcoming" or suffer the consequences. Does anyone here, much less Iraqis,believe former Republican Guard soldiers will abide by the Geneva Convention regarding "civilians" who provide aid and comfort to Al Fayedeen?
I'd suggest that the reason Iraqi police officers deserted is because JAG and other do-gooders in the military impressed upon Iraqi police officers during their training all the Western generated useless decorum expected of police officers. Who wouldn't run when faced with the enemy with all that Western legalize in the back of your mind, knowing that if you use force, you'll be arrested and tried for behavior unbecoming to law enforcement.
The sooner we hand over sovereignity to the Iraqis and let them do what they need to do, the better. Otherwise, our men will continue being used as target practice by the bad guys due to Geneva Conventions handcuffing our military who are viewed as an "occupying power"legally speaking.
Posted by: rex ||
05/30/2004 16:30 Comments ||
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Addendum to #13. Let's use the monthly $340,000 we no longer pay to Chalabi as a supplement to what's planned for salaries of the Iraqi soldiers...ie. none of this $10 a week crap or whatever mediocre sum I read that was being paid to the police officers. Pay Iraqi soldiers $50 weekly and officers $70 a week and provide monthly $200 BONUSES to any soldier who captures or kills "unlawful terrorists" or who forwards valuable military intelligence to coalition troops in the area. Bribe them properly.
Posted by: rex ||
05/30/2004 16:49 Comments ||
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Pay Iraqi soldiers $50 weekly and officers $70 a week and provide monthly $200 BONUSES to any soldier who captures or kills "unlawful terrorists" or who forwards valuable military intelligence to coalition troops in the area. Bribe them properly.
I have absolutely no problem with this (except that a bunch of innocent kills might show up as your supposedly "unlawful terrorists") so long as harsh measures are also put in place for corruption. The soldiers and police should be paid enough to create a sense of prestige surrounding their jobs instead of empowering any ability for them to intimidate the innocent.
"In the evening, the Janjaweed attacked. The area was full of crying from every direction, and shooting," says Ilham Isaak Abakker Abdullah. Aged 13, and light-voiced, she wears a pink dress and scarf and hasnât shown her face in weeks. "I saw many people killed, then I was grabbed by two men on horses wearing Sudan army uniforms." My local translator stops, no longer willing to delve into her story. "She is only 13," he says, and walks away. Tentatively, she continues talking to me in Arabic: "They tied me to a tree and raped me all night. I became very ill and fell down. They thought I died, so they left me." Unable to walk and barely conscious, Ilham crawled out of the "rape camp" near Funu, in northern Darfur, where she was being held. "I was very lucky," she says. She found a relative nearby who carried her just over a mile to a donkey, and they rode together a few hours to Abu Lehah, a village that has become a safe haven for the survivors of this secret rape camp. "I was unconscious and stayed there 16 days," she says. Ilham then set out on a 125-mile trek south to Bahai in Chad, where she eventually found medical help.
After 50 years of conflict that have claimed almost 2 million lives, Sudan is now officially at peace - but unofficially, the war goes on. In Darfur, Sudanâs western-most region, the people remain untouched by last weekâs peace agreement signed between the countryâs Islamic government and Christian rebels. Sudanese soldiers and the government-backed Janjaweed militia still terrorise, and at the centre of their campaign of "ethnic cleansing" is a policy of systematic rape designed to drive civilians from their settlements. Ilham is one of countless women, young and old, who have made the journey to Chad after escaping the "rape camps". I was unable to confirm first-hand the existence of such camps, but based on testimony to The Sunday Telegraph of refugees in the area, interviews by human rights organisations and the data, though scant, of aid agencies, it is clear that one such camp exists 10 miles outside Abu Lehah. It is also clear that rape by Janjaweed militias, the Arab soldiers intent on "ethnic cleansing" in the black African-dominated region of Darfur, is prevalent.
"When we arrived in Abu Lehah we saw hundreds of women unable to walk," says Asha Abdara Haman, 25, who helped Ilham and other girls on the long journey to Bahai. "Many girls were under 15 and couldnât walk. We carried them for 16 days." Asha and her 17-year-old sister, Radiya, were taken by Janjaweed and held as sex slaves for two days. "Five to six people raped each of us," Asha says. "They did everything they wanted with us, our condition was horrible."
To escape, the sisters manipulated the Janjaweed. "We said, âYou Janjaweed, you are very good people, we will not leave you,â so they didnât watch us closely and we escaped into the trees." Unable to walk properly, they almost crawled to Abu Lehah nearby, where they stayed for two days before making the trek to Chad with Ilham and other women. Asha describes the rape camp as a well organised operation. "There were 35 women taken and they split us up, one for each group of Janjaweed." She says that this is how it generally works. "If women are few, they divide us five or six Janjaweed per woman. If there are enough women after their daily collections then itâs one to one."
Asha yells out, calling other girls and women who have survived rape camps to speak to us. The stories of Asha, Radiya and Ilham illustrate how sexual violence is being used systematically. Such action by the Sudanese army and Janjaweed has created a "post-rape migration". And, because of the humiliation and silence of its victims, it is not being recorded in aid agency statistics. One refugee woman said: "In our culture it is a shame, and women will hide this in their hearts so that the men do not hear about it."
"We try to support each other," says Haloum Hissein Ali, 50, who organised the migration of women from the villages around Karnoi. She is a native of nearby Bajurba, a 26-hut village. "Some of my friends were slaves of the Janjaweed for a long time," she says. Haloum and her blind friend, Zahara, organised local women to help to find others who had been taken by the Janjaweed. They found only a few, but then travelled together, sharing transport animals and food, on a three-day journey to Tine, Chad. Doctors in Tine report treating dozens of women who have been raped in Karnoi. Gaetan Mootoo, who is gathering information from refugees in Darfur, said: "We have a large number of testimonies of rape and we have a strong sense that since the beginning of this year it is being used as a systematic weapon against women and girls. We fear that the consequences of this, both for the women involved and for all the people of Darfur, will last for a long time."
Posted by: tipper ||
05/30/2004 2:22:17 AM ||
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I wonder if the Arab Leaque will find time to express an opinion about this situation.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/30/2004 2:25 Comments ||
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Arm the black population and let the Arabs experience for the next 50 years what they have been dishing out.
Posted by: ed ||
05/30/2004 2:34 Comments ||
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Arm them, make sure we have a few special force guys teaching them the proper tactics, maintenance, etc., and help build a simple, reliable Darfur Air Force -- say a Spooky or two, or perhaps some old left-over Skyraiders -- to give the folks there a fighting chance.
Let's see how good the Janjaweeds are when they go up against people who can fight back.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/30/2004 3:28 Comments ||
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Asha describes the rape camp as a well organised operation. "There were 35 women taken and they split us up, one for each group of Janjaweed." She says that this is how it generally works."If women are few, they divide us five or six Janjaweed per woman. If there are enough women after their daily collections then itâs one to one."
Of course it's organized, they divide the captured women up according to the teaching of Islam.
From "ask the Imam" site:
"In the "Jihads" (Islamic wars) that took place, women were also, at times, taken as prisoners of war by the Muslim warriors. These women captives used to be distributed as part of the booty among the soldiers, after their return to Islamic territory. Each soldier was then entitled to have relations ONLY with the slave girl over whom he was given the RIGHT OF OWNERSHIP and NOT with those slave girls that were not in his possession. This RIGHT OF OWNERSHIP was given to him by the "Ameerul-Mu'mineen" (Head of the Islamic state.) Due to this right of ownership, it became lawful for the owner of a slave girl to have intercourse with her.
It may, superficially, appear distasteful to copulate with a woman who is not a man's legal wife, but once Shariah makes something lawful, we have to accept it as lawful, whether it appeals to our taste, or not; and whether we know its underlying wisdom or not."
http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=10896
An Afghan court has sentenced to death a suspected member of the ousted Taliban regime over accusations he was involved in a bomb attack that killed 15 school children, an official said on Saturday. But the accused, Abdullah Jan, has pleaded not guilty to any connection with the bomb, which also wounded 50 people when it went off in Kandahar in January. âHe was handed down the death sentence recently for the incident,â Deputy Chief Justice Fazl Ahmad Manawi told Reuters. âHe insists that he has nothing to do with it, but there is strong enough evidence to show his involvement.â Jan is the third Taliban suspect to be sentenced to death recently. The other two were accused of killing a French woman working for the U.N. refugee agency in November in Ghazni. The cases will be referred to the appeal court, and the death penalty can only be administered if President Hamid Karzai approves it, Manawi said.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 1:54:03 AM ||
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hmmm, Abdullah doesn't want to face death, yet he joined the taliban and meted out death in the form of summary execution countless times. Destroyed every means of self sufficiency in Afghanistan and left the Afghanis to starve.
complete lawless disrespect for (indigenous) human life
And now he expects to be believed when he claims he's "not guilty". Bombing school children is no different than what the taliban did to Afghanis before the taliban fell; Hang him from one of the dead trees the taliban killed.
KUFA, Iraq -- The U.S.-appointed governor of Najaf accused radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr on Saturday of failing to honor a deal to end fighting as U.S. soldiers clashed with Shiite gunmen. Al-Sadr's fighters said they killed one Iraqi policeman and captured another during an exchange of fire in Kufa. Three Iraqis were injured in clashes, hospital officials said. There were no reports of any U.S. casualties. Gov. Adnan al-Zurufi complained al-Sadr had done little to stop his fighters from brandishing their weapons in public or to send home militiamen not from this city - key parts of the agreement he struck with Shiite leaders to end seven weeks of fierce fighting around Najaf and Kufa. "Unfortunately, there have been no positive initiatives from the office of Mr. Muqtada al-Sadr so far," al-Zurufi said. "Armed men are filling the streets and there have been number of attacks on state employees in Kufa." Ragtag fighters wielding Kalashnikovs and rocket-propelled grenade launchers exchanged fire with U.S. soldiers approaching the center of Kufa. The militia accused the Americans of shooting first. Coalition officials said U.S. soldiers were attacked by rocket propelled grenades and fired back. Neither side released any casualty figures.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 1:44:14 AM ||
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#3
When you get your enemy down, you hit him with everything you've got, until he's dead. You DO NOT let him up, until he's dead....PERIOD! No deals, no mercy, you kill him. That's the ONLY way to eliminate the threat for good.
Posted by: Halfass Pete ||
05/30/2004 2:43 Comments ||
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#4
Hold on to your MOABs, all you armchair generals!
Our guys are perfectly ready to go in if the ceasefire deal fails and you know we can wipe 'em all out, if that's what we decide to do, BUT FIRST we let the local friends and neighbors of the bad guys work on the Enemy to do it the EASY way.
Look at the progess: We've got the Gov. of Najaf doing the heavy lifting now...! Yea!
(Remember just a week ago when we had to take back his office by military manoeuvres? And having al-Zurufi do it doesn't involve shooting around the mosque either!)
Posted by: Jen ||
05/30/2004 3:46 Comments ||
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#5
Agreed! Hold your power dry. We could have taken down these cities several months ago, but we are fighting a political and military war. The governor speaking out is very positive. We may have something we can hand matters off to as we transition to the new Iraq
Posted by: Mike Wiley ||
05/30/2004 4:10 Comments ||
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#6
Uh huh,.... let 'em live and you've gained nothing. Is a graceful exit all we're after? Or, do we want to really make a difference in Iraq? The way to make a difference is to kill these bastards. Remove the cancer and save the body. Without an overwhelming defeat of those terrorist animals, we've gained nothing. There is no substitute for victory. Stalemate is unacceptable.
1. If their mosque means that much to them, what are they doing making war from it?
2. If their "friends and neighbors" had that much influence on them,(the "bad guys"), wouldn't they have gotten them out of their precious mosque, with said influence?
3. The old, "let's negotiate" while WE resupply trick, works every time.
Posted by: Halfass Pete ||
05/30/2004 5:14 Comments ||
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Pete, I'd agree with you if time wasn't on our side. But it is. Delays help us and hurt the enemy.
There is a political process in place building momentum and the country is rapidly rebuilding its ecomony. As time goes on more people are going to want to become a part of the politcal process because they will realize that it's the only way for them to achieve some power.
The population will turn further and further against the insurgents as they realize what type of leadership these insurgents provide and how far their parts of the country are falling behind the rest that has sided with the US.
The clock is ticking down on our enemies and they feel it. That's why people like Sadr have been forced to play their cards... they knew if they waited any longer their cards would be worthless. Zarqawi said as much in his letter to AQ and it's the only thing he was right about.
#8
Pete, I'd agree with you if time wasn't on our side.
While the mayor getting up on his hind legs is a good sign, with the handover coming in a few weeks, I fail to see where time is on our side. If we leave even 10% of Sadr's structure intact upon our departure, we'll have made a dire mistake. As much as I want to disagree with Pete, I find it increasingly difficult to do so. Remember, Sadr's militia still walks about openly "brandishing their weapons in public." This does not represent substantial progress.
If Sadr's rather ample posterior remains unkicked before the handover it will represent an enormous shortcoming in our exit strategy.
KARACHI, Pakistan: Gunmen riding in two cars and a motorcycle opened fire on a pick up truck carrying a senior Sunni Muslim cleric in this violence-prone city Sunday, killing him and wounding four other people, police said. The cleric - Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai - died of gunshot wounds in a nearby hospital. He was attacked while he was driving to an Islamic seminary that he headed in an eastern Karachi neighborhood, said Fayyaz Qureshi, a Karachi police official. A body guard of Shamzai returned fire wounding one of the six attackers, Qureshi said, quoting witnesses. Among the four people who were injured in the attack on Shamzai was one of his sons, a nephew, his driver and two body guards, Qureshi said. None of them were listed to be seriously hurt. Shamzai, who was in his 70s, headed Jamia Islamia Binori Town, where thousands of students get Islamic education. His killing is likely to spark violence by his supporters. No one was arrested for the attack on Shamzai and there was no claim of responsibility for involvement.
More, from Khaleej Times...
Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai, who had called for a âjihadâ, or holy war, against the United States after the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, was wounded along with his son, a relative, a bodyguard and a driver, police said. âAs soon as we sat in the car, we heard gun shots and we immediately ducked,â the clericâs relative Rafiuddin told reporters. âI felt a strong pain in my leg, I had been shot and than I saw Mufti Shamzai Sahib covered in blood.â
I do hope he wasn't killed instantly...
It was not immediately clear who was behind the attack or whether it was a sectarian killing.
Bloodthirsty Shiites? MQM hard boyz? Perv's hard boyz?
Migrating Esquimaux?
âHe has expired,â a hospital source said about Shamzai, one of the countryâs most revered Sunni clerics. âWe have not yet announced it because there is a huge mob outside and we are worried about a law and order situation.â A witness told Reuters that at least four men opened fire as Shamzai headed for his seminary from his home nearby. Private television channel Geo said the attackers escaped by car and motorcycle.
Motorcycles of Doomâ¢. A nice touch, that...
Violent riots demonstrations predictably broke out in several parts of Karachi. Small groups of Islamic militants and Shamzaiâs followers came out on the streets to protest, pelting vehicles with stones and burning tyres. A Reuters correspondent at the scene said thousands of people, many carrying batons, had gathered near the seminary, located in a central commercial area, and had set fire to two banks and several shops. âThere is a lot of smoke in the air from the burning tyres and building, glass is scattered all around from damaged vehicles, and people are really charged,â he said.
âThere is heavy shelling of tear-gas and police fired gun shots in the air to disperse the crowd,â another witness said. Protesters set fire to a police station, torching two parked vehicles and partly damaging the building, police said. Another witness told Reuters police used tear-gas to disperse smaller crowds at several other places.
Ishratul Ibad, the governor of the province of Sindh, whose capital is Karachi, appealed for calm. âI appeal to the people and to his supporters as well, we all equally share the grief, but cooperate with us and we will certainly catch his killers,â Ibad said on Geo television.
Shamzai belonged to the hardline Deobandi school of Islamic thought, which has provided thousands of fighters to the Taleban in neighbouring Afghanistan. Several Pakistani Islamic militant groups considered him their spiritual leader. His seminary, Jamiat-ul-Uloom-il-Islamaiyyah, also known as Banuri Town, taught many students who went on to become important members of the Taleban regime in Kabul. Two very senior clerics of the seminary were also murdered in 1999 and 1998. Shamzai led a delegation of Pakistani clerics and intelligence officials to the Taleban supreme leader Mullah Mohammad Omar with a message from the government soon after the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States.
When he reportedly told Mullah Omar not to give in...
At the time, militant sources had said Shamzai held a separate meeting with Omar to assure him of the support of Pakistani clerics, against the wishes of the government of President Pervez Musharraf.
Karachi has suffered a spate of militant and sectarian violence in the recent past. Fifteen Shiâite worshippers were killed this month in a suicide bomb attack on a mosque and a policeman was killed when two car bombs went off this week near the home of the US consul. Qazi Hussain Ahmed, leader of Pakistanâs largest Islamic political party, the Jamaat-e-Islami, got his name in the papers again condemned the killing, saying the government had failed to protect spiritual leaders. âI am deeply anguished,â he said on Geo television.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 1:36:02 AM ||
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#1
When I see the words mufti, Islamic education and gunplay, I assume he was one of the bad guys. But it is so hard to tell without a program.
Posted by: ed ||
05/30/2004 1:49 Comments ||
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#2
Shamzai was a very influential Bad Guy. This is a very significant departure from the gene pool.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 1:55 Comments ||
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Anyone else reminded of the Bruce Lee movies of the early 70's? Different factions from different temples setting traps and beating the hell out of each other? (And I in no way wish to disrespect the Shaolin monks by comparingthemto the heathen Islamic fascists...)
#5
I can't help but notice that for something allegedly called the Religion of Peace, an awful lot of people are getting whacked.
Perhaps this is one of those confusions like the virgins/raisins thing caused by the lack of vowels in the old written language. Maybe someone made a typo awhile back and it was actually the Religion of Pieces, Praise be to Allan.
#6
Steve, would that be the Religion of Homophones?
Posted by: ed ||
05/30/2004 2:05 Comments ||
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#7
I can't help but notice that for something allegedly called the Religion of Peace, an awful lot of people are getting whacked.
I'm less than amused at how Islam's adherents continually murder each other with joyous abandon over petty internal divisions yet still manage to simultaneously proclaim their doctrine's supremacy.
Not a very convincing display of unanimity from within their own ranks, so to speak.
#8
Fred is right, Shamzai was a very important bad guy. He served as one of the most influential and radical Pak Deobandi Mullahs. He was one of the spiritual leaders of the Jaish-e-Mohammad, Sipah-e-Sahaba, and even Mullah Omar.
It was in his madrassa that Mullah Omar was first introduced to Osama Bin Ladin.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
05/30/2004 3:24 Comments ||
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#9
I'm less than amused at how Islam's adherents continually murder each other with joyous abandon over petty internal divisions yet still manage to simultaneously proclaim their doctrine's supremacy.
If they'd just leave us the hell alone they could diddle with each other to their hearts' content. They won't, of course.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/30/2004 3:25 Comments ||
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#10
Just heard the BBC correspondent saying 'It's not clear why anyone would want to kill him.'
#12
Shamzai will be replaced, what would really be useful is seizure and occupation of Binori Town Mosque, followed by raid after raid on its business contacts. Good description of Binori in Levy's Who Killed Daniel Pearl, enough to give one the shivers.
#13
The rioting afterwards:
Supporters of Shamzai, who was from the majority Sunni community, went on the rampage at the news of the killing, attacking a police station in the Jamshed Quarters neighbourhood, torching vehicles and snatching rifles from constables.
Two protestors were injured when police opened fire. Eight policemen were hurt by stones thrown at them by the mob, while another three were injured in the attack on the police station, police said. "Three policemen were injured when an angry mob ransacked the police station and some two to four prisoners also managed to escape from the lock-up," local police official Shah Ibne Masih told AFP.
The rioters also fired at a nearby bank, he said.
Police said a mob tried to attack a Shiite mosque on M.A. Jinnah road, near the scene of killing, but turned away when police started shooting and released tear gas.
The rioters later ransacked shops outside the tomb of the founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, and ransacked the nearby Quaid-i-Azam Academy which keeps documents of Jinnah's.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/87607/1/.html
#14
Ah, see? It is the Religion of Peace! Praise be to Allan, and welcome to hell, Mufti
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/30/2004 10:57 Comments ||
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#15
I wonder if this is the work of Larry, Moe and Curly Joe, the "three guys wearing motorcycle helmets", who allegedly are responsible for like 1000 assassinations in Iraq?
#16
If they'd just leave us the hell alone they could diddle with each other to their hearts' content. They won't, of course.
Steve, this is not a valid strategy. Even if "they'd just leave us the hell alone," they'd still be abusing and honor killing murdering their women. Political dissidents would still be tortured and nuclear weapons programs still conducted.
The world's Islamist theocracies must be rooted out like the moral cancers they are. Allowing them to metastasize whilst we merrily go about our business is all part of the past several decades' failed policy. There must be a sea change in how America and the world views these sort of stone-age b@stards taking up modern arms.
The United States has been told by Libyan intelligence officials that an important quantity of nuclear equipment secretly purchased by Libya in a bid to create its own nuclear arsenal appears to be missing, The Washington Post reported on Saturday. Libya promised last December to abandon its quest for nuclear weapons in exchange for improved relations with the West. Citing unnamed US officials, the newspaper said the equipment included sensitive components of machines used to enrich uranium. It had been ordered from black-market suppliers months earlier and was now long overdue. US officials present at the meeting said the Libyans wanted to prepare the Americans for the possibility that more illicit nuclear shipments could suddenly appear on Tripoliâs docks. But despite a search that has spanned the globe, US and international investigators are still struggling to account for a number of sensitive parts Libya ordered for construction of its uranium enrichment plant. US and UN investigators have identified many of the networkâs operatives and methods and recovered tens of thousands of parts in a dragnet that has reached from Southeast Asia to the Middle East and Europe, according to the report. However, the investigators believe that some of the suppliers to the network have not yet been identified, The Post said.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 1:26:19 AM ||
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Uh--after the Saudi check cleared Qaddafhi shipped it to Pakiland per his instructions--ask Khan and Perv where it is
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
05/31/2004 2:21 Comments ||
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The police arrested three activists of the Harkatul Mujahideen Al-Alami during a raid in Buffer Zone late Friday night and recovered arms and explosives from their possession. The arrested activists are Abdul Rahman, Zahid Husain and Masroor Ali. The police seized a large quantity of explosives, eight hand grenades and three TT pistols. Literature and photographs were also seized. The police said on a lead given by the arrested activists they arrested another three workers of the Harkatul Mujahideen Al-Alami, but their identity could not be ascertained.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 1:21:42 AM ||
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The government invoked on Saturday the territorial responsibility and collective punishment clauses of the Frontier Crimes Regulation (FCR) to punish Ahmedzai Wazir tribes for failing to act against foreign terrorists in South Waziristan Agency and arrested 34 tribesmen, including seven elders. FATA Security Chief Brig (r) Mehmood Shah told Daily Times that the political administration had launched an operation under FCR 21 and did not rule out a military operation as a follow-up to Saturdayâs political action. Under FCR 21, the administration would arrest tribesmen suspected of allowing foreigners to live in their areas and seize their properties and vehicles.
Sources in Wana said Malik Khanzada, Malik Sarwar Khan, Malik Anwar, Malik Noor Ali, Malik Zardalah Khan, Malik Abdullah and Malik Atlas Khan were taken into custody immediately after talks between them and officials of the political administration failed. The administration has warned that the arrested elders would not be released unless the foreign militants holed up in the area were turned over to them. Brig (r) Shah warned that the operation would continue unless the Ahmedzai Wazir tribesmen met their obligations under the territorial responsibility clause. Asked to explain their obligations, he said, âThese tribes are responsible to ensure no foreigners stay in their areas.â The political administration arrested 14 Ahmedzai Wazir tribesmen at the Jandola entry point and impounded 13 of their vehicles. The rest of arrests were made in Tank city, a source in the political administration confirmed.
âThere is a complete ban on the transportation of all kinds of goods to and from South Waziristan Agency and no food items are being allowed into the agency,â the source said, ending speculation about an economic blockade of the Ahmedzai Wazir tribesmen to force them into submission. A journalist in Wana said tribesmen had started stocking food due to the economic blockade to avoid food shortages in the coming days. âPrices have shot up already,â the journalist added.
Tribal sources said the government suspected that the eight arrested tribal elders had âAl Qaeda linksâ. The foreign terrorists in the agency chose Malik Khanzadaâs home as a registration centre, which the government did not accept. The Wana administration also served notices to the Yargulkhel and Zalikhel sub-tribes, warning that their shops in Wana bazaar might be shut down or even bulldozed. The notice did not demand anything, but charge-sheeted them with allegations that a bank was robbed in their area, a tribal police vehicle was bombed, foreign terrorists were roaming around freely and drugs were being sold.
With Saturdayâs operation, prospects of any significant results on part of the tribal lashkar (army) appeared to have vanished. âHow can it work now when there is an operation underway and our senior elders are behind the bars?â asked one tribal leader. But Malik Janan, a member of the 36-member advisory committee of the lashkar, told Daily Times that the committee would meet Nek Muhammad (leader of the pardoned group that had allegedly sheltered foreign terrorists) and his group today (Sunday) in Wana and ask them to force the foreign terrorists to meet the governmentâs demands.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 1:17:36 AM ||
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the political administration ... did not rule out a military operation as a follow-up ...
It looks to me like the situation really is building up to another invasion if the tribes do not comply with the principle that all foreigners must officially register their presence.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/30/2004 2:11 Comments ||
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Egypt has agreed to a request from Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to help maintain security in the Gaza Strip if he carries out his plan to end the Israeli presence in the territory, the Egyptian MENA news agency reported yesterday. The report said that Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak had told Sharon that Cairo was prepared to âsend experts in all fields, notably security, to the Palestinian territories immediately to help the Palestinian Authority assume its responsibilities in the matter of security.â Former Palestinian security chief Mohammad Dahlan said that militants would stop attacking Israelis from the Gaza Strip if the Jewish state withdrew completely from the area. Dahlan, a former security minister who has been delegated by Palestinian President Yasser Arafat to pursue contacts with the militants, said Hamas had agreed to halt violence and participate in administering Gaza.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 1:10:56 AM ||
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#1
How about controlling your end of tunnel-land, for a start?
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/30/2004 16:15 Comments ||
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A senior army official yesterday renewed an Israeli death threat against the head of the Lebanese Hezbollah resistance movement and warned Syria that it would pay dearly for any military escalation in southern Lebanon. âSuch a thing is not impossible,â said Gen. Benny Gantz, commander of Israelâs northern military region, asked in a televised interview if the Jewish state could assassinate Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah. Gantz advised Nasrallah ânot to sleep too tightâ. Turning to south Lebanon, where the Syrian-backed Hezbollah and Israeli troops often clash in a disputed border zone, the general said that âin case of a new escalation with Hezbollah, Syria will have to pay a heavy priceâ. Syria was supplying arms to âterrorist movementsâ, he charged. The general already warned on May 7 that any escalation would have âdisastrous consequencesâ for both Syria and Lebanon, after an Israeli soldier was killed in clashes with the Hezbollah militia.
After Israelâs assassination in March of Ahmed Yassin, leader of the Palestinian Islamic movement Hamas, Israelâs chief of staff Gen. Moshe Yaalon said that Nasrallah could also be next in the firing line. A Beirut newspaper, As-Safir, reported in mid-May that an Israeli-backed group plotting to kill Hezbollahâs secretary-general had been dismantled in Lebanon.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 1:08:01 AM ||
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Time to add Sheikh Nasrallah to the Dead Pool?
Posted by: ed ||
05/30/2004 1:56 Comments ||
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#2
Words! Words! Words! Give this baby-faced murderer his 72 raisins NOW!
Iyad Allawi, named to become the first prime minister in post-Saddam Hussein Iraq, reviewed a possible government line-up yesterday. The scion of a wealthy political family, Allawi is not the seasoned technocrat that UN and coalition officials had earmarked to lead the country to its first elections since the US-led invasion. UN envoy Lakhdar Brahimi, who is overseeing the selection of the interim executive set to assume sovereignty from the US-led coalition on June 30, had been expected to make a formal announcement to the Security Council next month. An Iraqi official said US overseer Paul Bremer presented a fait accompli to Brahimi by pressing interim Governing Council members to make a quick decision. âOn Thursday, Bremer informed the council members that they had to agree on the name of the prime minister by Friday at the latest,â said the official involved in the nomination process. âBecause the Americans were in such a hurry, Brahimi was not able to inform the (Security) Council of the result of his consultations,â the official said.
The official said the surprise changes in the nomination process could also see the senior US-backed Sunni official Adnan Pachachi take the post of president that seemed promised to current Governing Council head Ghazi Al-Yawar. A leading Kurdish member of the Governing Council, Mahmud Othman, said the line-up of the new government would be decided by Sunday at the latest. The 58-year-old Allawi returned last April from years in exile, after failing to carry out a US Central Intelligence Agency-backed coup against his archrival Saddam Hussein in 1996. While ordinary Iraqis may see him as a US puppet, Allawi was chosen chiefly for his security background and was seen as the best candidate to restore calm.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/30/2004 1:05:13 AM ||
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How interesting -- flanking Brahimi, and done by the IGC so that we don't have (too many) fingerprints on it?
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/30/2004 3:35 Comments ||
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This is shaping up nicely. Notice how things are moving ahead while Brahimi stands in place. This guy was a dud from the outset, but that's to be expected from the UN.
Posted by: Mike Wiley ||
05/30/2004 4:13 Comments ||
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Wow! My take is that the Iraqis have got ahead of us. Imagine them deciding who they want to take the reins. Our experiment is bearing fruit early.
Thousands of Somalis have fled their homes in the capital, Mogadishu, following some of the heaviest fighting there for several years. About 60 people are feared dead after three days of worsening clashes between rival militia in the north of the city. The capital had been enjoying relative calm until a minor incident at a hotel earlier in May degenerated into what one resident described as civil war.
"I said I wanted a KING bed in a NON-smoking room!"
The dispute has sucked in forces loyal to powerful warlords. Militia armed with automatic rifles, mortars and anti-aircraft guns exchanged intense fire throughout Saturday. Hospital officials said 38 people had been killed and many more injured over the past 24 hours alone. Some of them were civilians caught in the crossfire as the militiamen competed for control of an airstrip and a road connecting the city to two harbours.
The article goes on to note that Mogadishu has been 'prone to instability.' You could say that.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/30/2004 12:46:08 AM ||
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MAN, I hope "W" doesn't become a bleeding heart for whats going on in Mogadishu. Not 1 of our 'boys' are worth the crumb snatchers in that place. Lets just watch from the sidelines while we eat our popcorn!!
Fighting between U.S. forces and the Mehdi Army militia continued Saturday, two days after radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr pledged to withdraw most of his militia from the Najaf region if U.S. forces did the same. After insurgents attacked American forces Friday in Najaf and Kufa, coalition military spokesman Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said the attacks were "small incidents" and "don't seem to be endemic." "We can't really say if these are characteristic of a larger group splitting away from Sadr or if it is just some of the groups that haven't gotten the word," Kimmitt said. "It could take a few days before the true cease-fire that he offered holds. We will have to wait and see and respond as and when necessary."
"We have seen Muqtada al-Sadr take a positive step," coalition spokesman Dan Senor said. "We think it is a first step, but it is not a solution to the broader problems. Today we continue to be cautiously optimistic about the direction this situation is headed."
Why, it's almost as if Sadr won't keep his word. Tusk, tusk.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/30/2004 12:02:46 AM ||
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Karbala, Kimmitt said, was calm Friday while U.S. forces began a weapons buy-back plan to get guns off the street
Does the State Department think that dumb ideas that don't work in the US become suddenly more effective in Iraq?
#2
Again, mark my words, if Sadr survives the handover of power. he WILL provoke civil war within 3 years, aligning the 'New Islamic Authority' of Iraq, with Iran creating a Super State of Iran!! This will occur only if the 'Wildcard' of Israel doesn't take preemptive action against Iran's Nuclear production facilities before the end of this year!!
#3
Thank God the State Dept. isn't running the military part of the war! (yet)
There's no way of knowing if the way they're handling the al-Sadr uprising is a "dumb idea" or not, but I'm reserving my judgement.
I'm sick of people here saying that the US is "losing" or using "dumb ideas" or "showing we're weak" or whatever just because we haven't sent in the Marines in Najaf and Falluja to carry out a "scorched earth" policy!
I'm reserving my judgement as to whether this a 'dumb" or a brilliant idea to try and work it out with the Enemy fighters with a minimum of casualties on both sides.
For now, I'm trusting in Kimmitt's, Rummy's, Myers's and Sanchez's tactics.
I don't argue with troops and their commanders that are "in theatre" when I'm not and certainly am not being given perfect information from our beloved partisan media.
Posted by: Jen ||
05/30/2004 1:19 Comments ||
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#4
Maybe in the coming months or years Sadr will tragically die.
Hey, accidents happen.
Posted by: Les Nessman ||
05/30/2004 1:25 Comments ||
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#5
Check out this latest story from the region in the Telegraph: Iraqi insurgents turn against 'out of control' Saudi al-Qaeda fighters.
It's a "long, hard slog" but slowly and surely we're turning the situation around to our advantage (and ultimately Iraq's, too).
Both the British in 1920 and Saddam tried that "kill them all" strategy and it worked out poorly for both of them!
Hearts and minds are much more lasting and important.
Posted by: Jen ||
05/30/2004 1:25 Comments ||
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#6
Interesting article. I think it needs to be a top-level link and not just in the comments.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
05/30/2004 2:00 Comments ||
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#7
And I just found out it was linked to yesterday/earlier tonight.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
05/30/2004 2:22 Comments ||
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#8
Why is it that no one seems to have yet learned about the futility of negotiating with terrorists?
#10
lol kinda reminds me of Mo Molam the other day on BBC radeo 2 saying we need to negotiate with Binny and his goons,how people can even entertain the idea of negotiating with Binny is far beyond me. :(
Posted by: Shep UK ||
05/30/2004 6:26 Comments ||
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#11
You're going back to being a Zipperhead, you know...
No-one's negotiating with the hard boyz like Bin Laden and Zaqawi and Al-Sadr, but getting to the ones around them who really aren't all that into it (they don't wanna commit suicide for the 72 raisins) and isolating Mookie and Zaqarwi.
This is how we got Saddam and a whole lot of other bad guys in Iraq.
Eventually, these Iraqis can see that the Coalition is truly the "stronge horse" and get tired of fighting for a better Iraq when they could help the Coalition do that peacefully.
Posted by: Jen ||
05/30/2004 7:45 Comments ||
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An explosion ripped through a bus in Nepal's capital on Sunday, injuring at least 21 people, three critically, police and witnesses said. Police blamed the blast in Katmandu on communist insurgents. The blast comes just two days before a transport strike called by the rebels, who have been fighting since 1996 to abolish the monarchy and establish a communist state. The insurgency has killed more than 9,000 people. The driver of the bus, Lilanath Gajurel, told The Associated Press that the passengers were boarding when one of them noticed a suspicious package hidden under a seat. "Just when we're all running out of the bus, the device exploded and many of us were injured," Gajurel said from his hospital bed. Police said they were interviewing witnesses and searching for the rebels, who they suspect of planting the explosive device.
"You say that rebels planted the bomb? That's brilliant, Holmes, brilliant!"
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/30/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) - Four members of the American special forces were killed in action in a southern Afghan province at the heart of a stubborn Taliban-led insurgency, the U.S. military said Sunday. The victims died Saturday in Zabul province, about 240 miles southwest of the capital, Kabul, military spokeswoman Master Sgt. Cindy Beam said in an e-mailed statement. She gave no details of how they were killed.
Dammit AP, they're soldiers, not victims!
"Four U.S. service members assigned to the Combined Joint Special Operations Task Force-Afghanistan were killed in action today here in southern Afghanistan," Beam said in the statement datelined Zabul. Beam didn't say which service the four were attached to - Army, Navy or Air Force - and said the names of the soldiers would not be released pending notification of their families. It brings the total number of American service personnel who have died in and around Afghanistan since the start of the U.S. war on terrorism to at least 89, including 55 killed in action.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/30/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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#1
If they didnt tag them as VICTIMS then the AP wouldnt write about them.
Shows the inherent bias of the writers to immediatly resort to such language, almost instinctively. I their minds, the only way to portray someone sympathetically is to grant them victimhood.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.