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| Europe |
| Top German Cardinal: Christianity Needs Special Status in Europe |
| 2007-06-22 |
| Germany's highest-ranking cardinal has warned against indifference and uncritical tolerance which he says could lead to Islam enjoying equal standing with Christianity in the country. Cardinal Karl Lehmann, who is head of the German conference of bishops, expressed concern about religious freedom leading to all faiths being treated equally regardless of the size of their flock and their history. Germany's constitution obliges the state to maintain strict religious neutrality. But Lehmann pointed to Christianity's role in shaping European history and even its legal culture. "The deep cultural connection between Christianity and our legal state, that goes back to the Middle Ages and before, cannot simply be ignored," Lehmann said in a speech in Karlsruhe. Germany continues to struggle to integrate its 3.2 million Muslims, over half of whom are of Turkish origin, primarily "guest workers" who came to work during the country's postwar economic boom, and their children. Integration problems The government has been concerned about the potential radicalization of disillusioned young Muslims and organized an Islam Conference last year to try to help Muslims mesh with mainstream society. Germany has western Europe's second-biggest Muslim population after France. The conference has made little progress so far on sensitive issues such as religion lessons, girls' participation in sports and the legal status of a new Islamic grouping. Lehmann's comments come amid a sensitive time for Muslim-Christian relations in Germany. The construction of a large mosque in the western city of Cologne has set off a wave of intense opposition among many local residents. "I don't want to say I am worried, but I have an uneasy feeling," Cardinal Joachim Meisner of Cologne said of the mosque in an interview with Deutschlandfunk radio on Wednesday. Meisner, who last year banned Catholic children from praying with Muslim classmates, said a real test of religious tolerance would be whether Christians could build churches and worship freely in Turkey, as Muslims can in Germany. Chancellor Angela Merkel, the daughter of a Protestant pastor, said in April she expected Turkey to take action to show it was tolerant of Christianity after the killing of three people, including a German, at a Turkish Bible publishing house. Mixed reactions from politicians Ronald Pofalla, the general secretary of Merkel's conservative Christian Democratic Union party, said Lehmann was right to say Islam could not be afforded the same legal standing in Germany as Christianity, although he added no one should prevent Muslims from practicing their religion in the country. "Unlike Christianity, Islam is not in Europe's cultural center and is not reflected in everyday life in the same way," Pofalla said in a statement. "Only those who are conscious of their cultural and social roots can freely and openly stand up for the rights of people of different faiths," he added. The leader of the Green party's parliamentary group, Volker Beck, said Germany's constitution required Islam be treated the same as Christianity. "The Cardinal is wrong if he concludes that Europe's or Germany's undoubtedly Christian character infers a legal discrimination of other religious communities," he said. Lale Akgün, a Social Democratic parliamentarian in charge of Islam issues, said Lehmann was not looking clearly at the reality of life in Germany. "Whoever says that Islam cannot be put on an equal legal footing (as other religions) is stoking social unrest," she said. |
| Posted by:mrp |
| #13 You aren't the only one who's felt the need, Secret Master. ;-) The last paragraph of your rant raises a good point though, especially if the majority of those registered do not believe. Why object, then, to tithing to a different religious authority that also doesn't own one's allegiance? |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2007-06-22 23:24 |
| #12 Whoops! Well, I was in a ranting mood in any case. |
| Posted by: Secret Master 2007-06-22 23:14 |
| #11 Registered church members (Catholic, Lutheran, Jewish only) pay a percentage of their taxes as tithe in Germany as well, although they must write a separate check once a year instead of the payroll department handling the details. Most do not do this as statement of their own faith, but so that they can be buried by the church when they die, and so their children can have lovely church weddings and church funerals later. I can't speak about Austria, but in Germany it's mostly about a pretty stage setting... church weddings have no legal standing, and take place after the civil service at City Hall, often enough the entire party walking directly from one to the other. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2007-06-22 23:11 |
| #10 and I still think that it is - than letting your children play with Muslim children will help to integrate them into your society. If itÂ’s not, then youÂ’ve got bigger problems than letting your kids play with the corner store ownerÂ’s kids. Secret Master, Cardinal Lehmann banned Catholic children from PRAYING with their Muslim classmats, not "playing". I think its pretty likely that Muslim students tended to pray using imam-approved chants. |
| Posted by: mrp 2007-06-22 22:14 |
| #9 I take your point, Secret Master, and agree with you re: playing together. I understood the article tosay that the cardinal forbade them praying together, which is something else. The stance of at least some Muslims is that anyone who says the basic prayers becomes a Muslim, whether knowingly or not - and may not recant in the future. |
| Posted by: lotp 2007-06-22 22:12 |
| #8 who last year banned Catholic children from praying with Muslim classmates And I should listen to this weasel why, exactly? Because the sins of the father are visited upon the son? Rubbish. Worse than rubbish - dangerous rubbish. I grew up with this kind of sh!t in the Old South and I know what it breeds: hatred and unnecessary conflict. If the culture of European Christians is stronger – and I still think that it is - than letting your children play with Muslim children will help to integrate them into your society. If it’s not, then you’ve got bigger problems than letting your kids play with the corner store owner’s kids. If there’s ever is going to be a “moderate,” westernized Islam, then that is where it will have to start – with kids growing up together. We’ll be over this whole hump when little Abdul doesn’t want to blow up the school bus because it’s filled with his playmates, and not a moment before. It’s called the M-e-l-t-I-n-g P-o-t, Cardinal Lehmann, and it works. Old Patriot raises an excellent point, though. When I was getting drunk in Austria about five months ago, the bar tender told me that the government collects tithes directly from the paychecks of registered Catholic Austrians to support the Church. My snarky comment was “So everybody’s a registered Protestant then, huh?” To which he said “No, 79% of us are registered Catholics.” So, the State Church is already an honored tradition even in modern Europe. Which is not only why our ancestors left, but will also prove useful should the Muslims take over. The apparatus is already in place for them in many countries should they achieve majority population. And, if Lehmann has his way, they’ll have a legitimate axe to grind should they get there (not that they need one). |
| Posted by: Secret Master 2007-06-22 21:59 |
| #7 I read a post on a forum last night that sums it up nicely. "Multiculturalism works for everyone but muslims and Mexicans." |
| Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom 2007-06-22 21:42 |
| #6 Maybe if the "Christian" churches in Europe actually preached Christianity, had to live off the donations of their parishoners instead of being paid by the State, from taxes imposed for that purpose, they might enjoy a little more popularity. God is hard to find in a state-run church, and that includes Islamic mosques. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2007-06-22 16:41 |
| #5 Germany's highest-ranking cardinal has warned against indifference and uncritical tolerance which he says could lead to Islam enjoying equal standing with Christianity in the country. Yet Lehmann cannot bring himself to call "uncritical tolerance" by its real name: "Multiculturalism". His is the wrong approach. Attempting to implement even a vague form of theocracy or preferential treatment plays directly into the hands of Muslims. They'll install their own brand at the first opportunity. The correct approach is to strip Islam of its improperly awarded religious status and protections, ban its practice on the grounds that shari'a law is a violation of human rights and begin deporting any Muslim that so much as spits on the sidewalk. While Christianity indeed helped to shape Europe's historical and legal culture, it is Islam's Meisner, who last year banned Catholic children from praying with Muslim classmates, said a real test of religious tolerance would be whether Christians could build churches and worship freely in Turkey, as Muslims can in Germany. Bingo! Reciprocity in religious freedom is something that Christians—and religious practicioners everywhere—had better begin clamoring for. The Muslim world must be made to demonstrate peaceful coexistence other cultures. Any failure to do so must permanently brand Muslims as the intolerant gangsters they always have been. Much of this world's survival depends upon this or—inevitably—far more harsh measures. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2007-06-22 14:38 |
| #4 Also, TW, I don't know for that cardinal but in my mind Christianity as base of european culture means judeo-christianity. |
| Posted by: JFM 2007-06-22 13:59 |
| #3 It sounds like they are conflating culture with religion. On the other hand, it is right that Germany should demand parity in religious acceptance from Turkey and the other sources of their Muslim immigrants: 1 mosque, 1 church leading to No church? Then no mosque. The U.S. should be demanding the same for the source countries of our own Muslims: Pakistan, the Palestinian territories (wouldn't that put the cat among the pigeons!), Syria, Egypt, India (the Hindus are actively not keen on conversions as well, for some reason), Indonesia, Malaysia... and of course Saudi Arabia. It's something to consider, anyway. And to make noises about, to prepare the ground, so to speak. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2007-06-22 12:59 |
| #2 The splendor of the Chartes moskk, will ever stand. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2007-06-22 12:39 |
| #1 Funny, they got no problem saying Scientology doesn't deserve equality with Christianity. I may despise the clams, but they're no worse than the Muslims. |
| Posted by: Rob Crawford 2007-06-22 11:53 |