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Europe
King refuses to apologise for expulsion of Moors
2005-01-20
TETOUAN-Descendants of the Moors expelled from Spain 500 years ago failed to receive an apology from King Juan Carlos as he toured Morocco. Residents of Tetouan, many of whose ancestors were driven from the Iberian peninsula by King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella, said an opportunity had been lost to heal an historic wound, which has become all the more sensitive in recent years, the British Daily Telegraph reported. Osama bin Laden has often talked of the tragedy of the loss of al-Andalus, the Moorish region of Spain. The terrorists who attacked Madrid last year, killing 192 people and wounding 1,900, spoke of Spain with the same sense of historic vengeance. Three million Muslims were expelled in 1501.
1501. Lemme see, here. Divide by 9, carry the 4... Square root of 11... Oh, yeah. That's 504 years agao, give or take a few months. GET OVER IT!
The king, who was on his first state visit to Morocco since 1979, cancelled his visit to Tetouan at the last minute. The official reason was lack of time but unofficially it appeared that sensitivities had arisen because Tetouan was the old Spanish colonial capital. King Juan Carlos said in a speech earlier this week that the legacy of an Arab and Andalusian heritage was a key to "the positive image'' in Spain of "Arabic culture and Islam''. The king has apologised for the expulsion of Jews from Spain in 1492, and the descendants of the expelled Moors say he owes Muslims the same respect. An eminent historian, Mohammed Ibn Azzuz Hakim, who has led the campaign, said: "We want moral reparations for the wounds we suffered. Mentally we feel linked to the same customs and history. Spanish traditions are ours too. I have traced more than 7,000 surnames in this town which derive from Spanish names."
How's your flamenco dancing, Bub?
The campaign is backed by the biographer of Lorca, Ian Gibson, and the popular historian Amin Maalouf. "Five centuries ago they expelled Spanish Jews and Spanish Muslims.
And now both are back. The one group's well-behaved, the other's not...
The petition to the Spanish king will hopefully change this historic injustice. They were betrayed," said Gibson. Azzuz believes that the arrival of a socialist government in Spain has increased the chances of receiving an apology. Relations between Spain and Morocco took a serious downturn under the Right-wing government of Jose Maria Aznar.
Posted by:Steve

#26  Actually, if you watch Aris carefully, about 80% of the time he comments only when he can critize or correct or impress.

I think these people are after seething bait, something to whip their people into a frenzy with the unjustness of it all: See! They apologized for it!
Posted by: Ptah   2005-01-20 8:56:22 PM  

#25  The Muslims welcomed the American liberation of Iraq.
Well, some did.
That's the messy little thing about history. Ya just gotta check that record out.
Posted by: Asedwich   2005-01-20 8:56:16 PM  

#24  My thoughts/opinions:

1. The Moslems use anything in their attempts to compensate (get "apologies") for the problems caused by the humiliation stemming from their own (present day) sexual abuse issues.

2. peggy (#10, #18 & #22): superb comments.

3. Aris is simply a social deconstructionist who likes to bitch about his askewed perceptions/experiences of pseudochristianity.

4. "The muslims didn't want co existence, they wanted everything the Byzantines had for themselves . . ." Same holds true today. Really, they just want our stuff. The reason for their wars then. The reason for their "terror" war now.

5. As usual Barbara Skolaut has it right! LOL! (#21)

Posted by: ex-lib   2005-01-20 7:01:52 PM  

#23  Acording to Islam only Islam deserves to have apologies made to it since it is the most holy of all religions.

I am glad he shined them on.
Zappy will have a brown nose soon enough.
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom   2005-01-20 5:58:25 PM  

#22  Amen Aris. Look at the Copts now. Look at what happened to the Byzantine empire. Most of what occured was due to hubris. They were so sure that they couldn't lose to the muslims. They were so sure that the difference between the faiths was obvious and once exposed to Christianity and to civilization, the muslims would realize their error. So they would battle the muslims to a standstill and then believing that they had made peace with them, accomodated them, gave them territory, allied with them, worked with them, let them live and study in the capitol city and in the end none of it was worth a bucket of spit. The muslims didn't want co existence, they wanted everything the Byzantines had for themselves and they played along alternating with slowly bleeding the empire dry through episodic military campaigns of conquest until there was nothing left.

No the Byzantines were not very nice to the Copts because they were considered heretics, but we owe them an incalculable debt for the transmission of our ancient Greco-Roman hertitage and for successfully combining that heritage with Christianity.

They were a brilliant people in spite of their faults. Everyone should study what happened to them especially our kids in school.
Posted by: peggy   2005-01-20 5:27:54 PM  

#21  I'm still waiting for the moslems to apologize to the entire "moslem" world for invading them and "converting" them by the sword - into shitholes.

You'll notice I am not holding my breath.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut   2005-01-20 5:02:05 PM  

#20  "I think the Copts should demand that Mohammedans apologize for invading then-Christian Egypt in the 7th century, an illegal occupation that continues to this day."

Actually, just as a nitpick, the Copts had then *welcomed* the Muslim invasion of Egypt, because the Muslims were less brutal rulers than the Byzantines.

There's a moral to be learned here.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2005-01-20 4:55:33 PM  

#19  Maybe Muslims should finally apologize for attacking us first and starting centuries of bloodshed between us?

ROPMA
Posted by: peggy   2005-01-20 4:42:24 PM  

#18  Yeah AC, and while we at it we should also demand the return of Constantinople and the return of St Sophia to the Christian church.

Where's the outrage about that, I wonder? If Christians stole the finest mosque ever built and made it a church and then a museum rather than return it and then neglected it to the point of dereliction of duty and criminal neglect of one of the worlds archtectural treasures, then we would never hear the end of it.

But if its the other way around? who cares? But we have to apologize for kicking out the occupiers of Christian Spain??????

HA! May we never be so stupid. Though I am all for apologizing if the all the muslims go back to SA. There's plenty of empty space there I hear.
Posted by: peggy   2005-01-20 4:26:48 PM  

#17  I think the Copts should demand that Mohammedans apologize for invading then-Christian Egypt in the 7th century, an illegal occupation that continues to this day.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy   2005-01-20 1:19:05 PM  

#16  How about Muslims apologzing to Lebanese, Palestinian or Egyptian Christans who had had ti leave their countries all of these in present times.
Posted by: JFM   2005-01-20 1:05:27 PM  

#15  When Jesse Jackson hears about this he will be in the streets of Madrid leading an apology march.
Posted by: Bill Clinton   2005-01-20 12:33:47 PM  

#14  The Jutes apologized, I believe. Remember the great line "We're so sorry, Uncle Albert".

Relations have been sour for decades. Spain has had to spank the Moroccans every few years. Last was in 2002. Take a look at a good map and you will find two Spanish enclaves on the Moroccan coast.
Posted by: Chuck Simmins   2005-01-20 12:23:11 PM  

#13  I'm surpirsed anyone dignified such crap with a response at all. That sort of brazen cheek makes my head hurt.
Posted by: Bulldog   2005-01-20 12:18:13 PM  

#12  Maybe the King's still waiting for an apology for 3/11?
Posted by: Desert Blondie   2005-01-20 12:08:37 PM  

#11  Classic moose-limb hypocrisy...invade a country - then get your cornshoots tossed out en masse and then demand an apology.
Posted by: Rex Mundi   2005-01-20 12:04:23 PM  

#10  Basically, an apology would be an endorsement of the aggression and invasion of Christian Spain by muslims. It would be an acknowledgment of a muslim right to Spain. They were first conquerors and occupiers and then they were kicked out after losing in a fair fight. No apology neccesary.

The Jews are a wholly different case. They did not invade and occupy a Christian land. They lived in peace as a minority for likely every bit as long as Christians did. It was therefore unfair and wrong to expell them. It was right to offer them an apology.
Posted by: peggy   2005-01-20 11:58:38 AM  

#9  It might take several (20? 30?) of us, but I'm with you, Mike, heh.
Posted by: .com   2005-01-20 11:44:25 AM  

#8  the anti-Zappy
Posted by: Frank G   2005-01-20 11:44:16 AM  

#7  Can we expell some, too? I was thinking of one in particular, Michael Moor(e). Let's expel him! It'll be fun.
Posted by: Mike   2005-01-20 11:36:34 AM  

#6  Good on ya, Kingy-baby!
Posted by: .com   2005-01-20 11:21:04 AM  

#5  what a load of crap!
Posted by: legolas   2005-01-20 11:18:09 AM  

#4  Probably not sorry. If the Moors had not been expelled, Spain would be in the same shape as the rest of the Arab world.
Posted by: SR71   2005-01-20 11:02:01 AM  

#3  Did the Moops (whoops, I mean Moors) ever apologize to the Spanish for invading their country hundreds of years prior to being expelled by the Spanish? What's next, the Angles, Saxons and Jutes apologizing to the Britons and the few remaining Picts (as well as any remaining Roman invaders) for invading England? The Norsemen apologizing to the Anglo-Saxons for their hundreds of years of raids on England? The Normans apologizing to the Saxons for doing the same years later? Give me a break.
Posted by: Tibor   2005-01-20 11:00:41 AM  

#2  500 years ago? Shit, with these people, that's an open wound.
Posted by: tu3031   2005-01-20 10:57:20 AM  

#1  An apology from King Juan Carlos for something that he didn't do that happened over 500 years ago. Get a life.
Posted by: Tom   2005-01-20 10:52:00 AM  

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